[magkelly]

Florida Man, 71, Shoots Alleged Robbers At Internet Cafe by KEVIN DOLAK | GMA

Two teens were shot and injured by a 71-year-old central Florida man who refused to stand by while the young men allegedly tried to rob an Internet cafe. Samuel Williams was sitting in the Palms Internet Cafe in Ocala, FL on Friday night when two men, later identified as Davis G. Dawkins, 19, and Duwayne Henderson, also 19, allegedly stormed in brandishing a handgun and a baseball bat. "Don't none of you [expletives] move," one of the teens reportedly yelled at the café patrons.

In a surveillance video released by the police department, Williams, who is seated at a computer in the corner of the café, is seen standing up and pulling out a .380-caliber handgun shortly after the two men are apparently seen storming into the café and swinging a bat at something off screen. (MK: A person maybe?) Williams is apparently seen firing two shots at Henderson, who quickly heads for the front door. The 71-year-old then begins to fire at both of the young men, who appear to panic and hurriedly fall over as they flee the scene.

(MK: Do note, he apparently wasn't shooting to kill or they'd both likely be dead. Shooting at that close a range it's unlikely he just missed.)

Both Dawkins and Henderson were arrested hours later. They have been charged with attempted armed robbery with a firearm and felony criminal mischief. Officials said it is unlikely that Williams will be charged with a crime for attacking the teens because the shooting seemed justifiable. "Based on what I have seen and what I know at this time, I don't anticipate filing any charges," Bill Gladson of the State Attorney's Office told Ocala.com.

Williams has a concealed weapons permit for his handgun, according to the Sheriff's Office.Gladson, who said that he has reviewed the security footage, added that he is still awaiting a final report from the Marion County Sheriff's Office. Dawkins was released from jail Sunday, having posted an $11,000 bond. Henderson remained in Marion County Jail, having failed to post a $31,000 bond.

Now, I ask you is this SO wrong? Or would you rather have seen this title to this piece?

Two Robbers Beat, Shoot and Kill Several At Internet Cafe Then Flee The Scene

This is how bad it's getting in suburbia folks. You can't even go check your email without risking being mugged or worse? Those two punks were there to rob and potentially beat or kill people. The one swung the bat at something, likely to make a point that he was prepared to be violent if he didn't get what he wanted. The other one was carrying a pistol and I doubt it would have troubled him to use it. That 71 year old guy just may have saved several lives because he was a registered gun owner, there when this went down, and remained calm enough to use it. He's a freakin hero in my book.

I'm wondering how they got the gun. If they stole it from their parents or what. They're both pretty young and getting one legally at 19 isn't all that easy unless you're with a gang. This might have been some kind of gang ritual thing I suppose. They didn't exactly sound like they knew what they were doing either of them.

But I'm definitely applauding the old man. He definitely saved the day and maybe some lives. He deserves it I think. I used to dislike guns, didn't agree with the men in my family on that score really, but you know what? Not anymore. All the violence of late it's has really changed my mind on that score. Robberies, home invasions, incidents like this are getting to be an every day event. The nuts and the criminals have taken over the asylum and I think that the cops are just too understaffed to stop them.

---

Last edited by magkelly; 07-18-2012 at 11:44 AM.

[GeneV]

Or, with his 71 year old eyesight, he might have killed two teenagers selling pens and getting into an argument with the manager. It is good that this one had a "happy" ending, though.

[magkelly]

Or, with his 71 year old eyesight, he might have killed two teenagers selling pens and getting into an argument with the manager. It is good that this one had a "happy" ending, though.

Oh please. Did you not read the article? The one kid was openly threatening people with a baseball bat. The other had a pistol and was doing the same. They were both telling people not to move and making their intent to rob and maybe more perfectly clear. They were not there to sell pens. :P Unless you're blind as a bat and can't hear besides that kind of a threat would be hard to miss. Heck I am sans glasses and I could still see that. Guy probably has better eyes and reflexes at 71 than I do if he can still aim and shoot a gun under that kind of pressure.

[luftfluss]

But I'm definitely applauding the old man. He definitely saved the day and maybe some lives. He deserves it I think. I used to dislike guns, didn't agree with the men in my family on that score really, but you know what? Not anymore. All the violence of late it's has really changed my mind on that score. Robberies, home invasions, incidents like this are getting to be an every day event. The nuts and the criminals have taken over the asylum and I think that the cops are just too understaffed to stop them.

Actually, the inverse is true. The violent crime rate in the US has been on a steady decline for the last 20 years. The increased media coverage just gives the appearance of a higher crime rate.

Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edit: anyway, I'm glad Mr. Williams took care of the situation.

[magkelly]

Actually, the inverse is true. The violent crime rate in the US has been on a steady decline for the last 20 years. The increased media coverage just gives the appearance of a higher crime rate.

Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edit: anyway, I'm glad Mr. Williams took care of the situation.

Sorry I don't care what the wiki says or the cops. It's not just the news. I've seen more robberies where I live in the past 3 years than you'd ever believe. I lost track a long time ago but it's just getting to be too crazy. I'm not talking break ins. I'm talking violent robberies, muggings. Every little mom and pop convenience shop here is installing bullet proof glass and getting guns behind the counter because they have been robbed most of them now. My local drug store has been robbed lately. A real estate agent a few blocks over got robbed. The stores where I do most of my grocery shopping have had several such incidents in the past couple of years. The fast food places get robbed every week it seems and there have been three home invasions within 12 blocks of me just in the past two weeks and FYI, I live on the GOOD side of town. I'm so glad we have a gate and security guards now it's not even funny. Probably wouldn't help really, but just that they're there makes me feel better and I never thought I'd relish living under armed guard. Heck, I felt safer living in Spanish Harlem or North Philly than I do here.

In that same two weeks also several rapes, car jackings, a couple of murders, et all. It's gone from being a place where I used to hit Walmart or the Denny's at 2AM with my friends and feel perfectly safe to being a place where I can't really go out at all at night. Can't even go to a midnight show these days. We practically need freakin BATMAN patrolling because the cops sure aren't into doing their job or they just don't have enough people to. Statistics my arse. The number of cameras and alarms being sold in this area tells a far better tale. This is practically the boonies compared to some places, so I know it's got to be really bad elsewhere. It's drugs I think. People just wanting oxy and the like, but also gangs. They're here and they're a lot more populated than they used to be. The whole town is actually. Population has tripled here the past 5 years probably. It's not "God's Waiting Room" anymore. It's a southern fried mini version of Detroit...

[GeneV]

Oh please. Did you not read the article? The one kid was openly threatening people with a baseball bat. The other had a pistol and was doing the same. They were both telling people not to move and making their intent to rob and maybe more perfectly clear. They were not there to sell pens. :P Unless you're blind as a bat and can't hear besides that kind of a threat would be hard to miss. Heck I am sans glasses and I could still see that. Guy probably has better eyes and reflexes at 71 than I do if he can still aim and shoot a gun under that kind of pressure.

Again, I'm glad it worked out in this case.

[Parallax]

O great! Some old goat shoots two poor, innocent, underprivileged teens for just trying to scrape together a few extra pennies. They probably needed the money so they could take the bus instead of having to walk themselves and their elderly grandmother to church, and this clown arbitrarily decides that if anybody was going to come out of it uninjured it should be himself and the other law abiding patrons instead of the two misguided yoots.

---

Last edited by Parallax; 07-18-2012 at 02:35 PM.

[GeneV]

O great! Some old goat shoots two poor, innocent, underprivileged teens for just trying to scrape together a few extra pennies. They probably needed the money so they could take the bus instead of having to walk themselves and their elderly grandmother to church, and this clown arbitrarily decides that if anybody was going to come out of it uninjured it should be himself and the other law abiding patrons instead of the two misguided utes.

If his cataracts aren't giving him trouble, no one gets in the way, his arm is steady, his celebrex is working, the teens aren't faster on the trigger, the holdup guys don't get mad and start shooting patrons .... . In fact, if the teen with the handgun in his outstretched arm had been serious about shooting someone, this guy would have been dead as he got out of his chair. But this time, he is a hero.

[Parallax]

If his cataracts aren't giving him trouble, no one gets in the way, his arm is steady, his celebrex is working, .... . But this time, he is a hero.

IF his cataracts were giving him trouble ........... IF someone got gets in his way................. IF his arm wasn't steady............. IF his celebrex wasn't working.................. IF a satellite crashed through the roof............... IF bigfoot walked by and bumped his arm...............
Sure, a lot of things could have gone wrong. They didn't.

There's also the possibility that he is aware of his abilities and limitations and felt confident that at that moment he was capable of acting safely and effectively. I'd say he was right.

Ever seen the statistics on how many rounds fired by police miss their intended target? In 1989, according to the then director of the FBI firearms training unit, the miss rate is about 80%.

[GeneV]

IF his cataracts were giving him trouble ........... IF someone got gets in his way................. IF his arm wasn't steady............. IF his celebrex wasn't working.................. IF a satellite crashed through the roof............... IF bigfoot walked by and bumped his arm...............
Sure, a lot of things could have gone wrong. They didn't.

Ever seen the statistics on how many rounds fired by police miss their intended target? In 1989, according to the then director of the FBI firearms training unit, the miss rate is about 80%.

We act based upon probability of harm and good. There is a reason why police aren't 71 and I wonder if, given the odds of something going wrong, police would have shot in this situation.

Frankly, I have some doubts that these kids would have shot anyone and wonder if their guns were even loaded. The one with a handgun basically watched the elderly patron get up and shoot (and not that quickly), with his gun pointed in that direction and did not shoot first or shoot back. One moral I suppose is that if you are going to commit armed robbery, you had better be mean enough to shoot someone. Perhaps the next robber who has seen this clip will kill quickly on the chance that any patron might have a gun.

[Wheatfield]

Sure, a lot of things could have gone wrong. They didn't.

Good thing too, or those anti gun nut America haters would be all over this.
Having said this, I would like to ask a genuine question regarding Florida law.
My understanding from reading the article is that the guy was probably not in immediate danger (no weapon pointed at him, etc); with this in mind, would this shooting be considered an SYG shooting? Or is it OK for a citizen to act as judge, jury and executioner and cap someone if he catches them in the act of a crime?
And who is to decide it's a crime? I realize in this case it's pretty obvious (waving guns around and being generally threatening), but what if it's someone knocking on your front door to ask directions and you shoot them because you are afraid that it's a prelude to a home invasion?

[GeneV]

Good thing too, or those anti gun nut America haters would be all over this.
Having said this, I would like to ask a genuine question regarding Florida law.
My understanding from reading the article is that the guy was probably not in immediate danger (no weapon pointed at him, etc); with this in mind, would this shooting be considered an SYG shooting? Or is it OK for a citizen to act as judge, jury and executioner and cap someone if he catches them in the act of a crime?
And who is to decide it's a crime? I realize in this case it's pretty obvious (waving guns around and being generally threatening), but what if it's someone knocking on your front door to ask directions and you shoot them because you are afraid that it's a prelude to a home invasion?

Interesting point. The first guy shot might have been legal with or without SYG. The 71 year old, Samuel Williams, gets up from his chair (moving at about the speed you would expect), the kid spins around with a gun in his hand, and Williams shoots the startled youth, but without much apparent damage. It is justifiable under just about any standard. The shot is high and it may be the one that grazed the would-be robber, but the robber runs away instead of shooting back at point-blank range.

However, Williams follows them out and shoots them as they are trying to get away--crawling away in the case of one of them who has tripped and fallen. Williams shoots this guy on the ground, pointing his gun out the front door and down. This might not have been self-defense in the usual sense of that term.

[Parallax]

and Williams shoots the startled youth,

That's "yoot"

However, Williams follows them out and shoots them as they are trying to get away--crawling away in the case of one of them who has tripped and fallen. Williams shoots this guy on the ground, pointing his gun out the front door and down. This might not have been self-defense in the usual sense of that term.

The common term for that is murder. Is that what happened?

[GeneV]

That's "yoot" The common term for that is murder. Is that what happened?

According to the reports, he got that one in the butt. No vital organs hit. They were turned in by someone who overheard them talking about having been shot. These were some real winners.

The first shot at looks like it was intended for the chest. I think he missed, but if he had hit, I don't think any court would have held him responsible for that one.

[redrockcoulee]

Magkelly

You could make a good cabinet minister in Harper's government. When questioned about the rationale behind building new prisons in Canada when the crime rate has been on decline for over three decades he replied he did not need facts he knew what he knew. Do not want to get into the situation you posted just that you are disputing the actual facts in regards to crime rate, it is on the decline in Canada the US and much of Europe. Juvenile crime, adult crime etc. The only thing that is really getting worse is that violent crime is getting more violent. Those whose job it is to collect the figures do not gain any momentary rewards by coming up with these numbers and in Canada anyway the governments in charge at the times of the stats being collected include NDP, Liberal, Progressive Conservative, Social Credit , the Saskatchewan Party, the Yukon Party, Parti Quebecois and most likely I have missed one or two. The other change has been that prison sentences are getting longer and a larger portion of the population is being imprissioned in some countries but not in other ones with both approaches resulting in near identical results. Studies also show that those who are in the least danger from crime fear it the most and those in the most danger fear it the least.