[bossa]

The highlighted part was my point; but when Joe Nutcase shoots up a theater, or Sammy Streetpunk robs a liquor store and shoots the owner, what's the topic of discussion? Oh those evil guns. It's terrible. Nobody ever got murdered until guns were invented. (Or in the case of the forum here: Oh, those evil Americans and their guns! No one in the world would ever be killed again if the Americans didn't have guns.)
Inanimate objects are neither good nor evil. People are.

Yes, we've heard that BS for awhile now and it's no defense. Go visit the victims (of this massacre) parents and say it to their faces if you dare.

[Parallax]

Yes, we've heard that BS for

It is BS. Thanks for making my point again!

[boriscleto]

Daily Kos: Adult conversations require adults

[seacapt]

Bloomberg... The way we do it in NY.....man I wish I had a dollar for everytime I heard that crap.
When will these people learn that there are alot of citizens who don't live in NY ,don't want any part of NY , and couldn't care less how you do it in NY.
Yeah Bloomy there's no crime in NYC

[downhill]

The media says he is a registered Democrat and into *Black Block tactics. .

May I ask where you heard or read that? I've yet to read or hear anything on his political views. I'm guessing here where you did but I'd be out on a limb to guess.................. Fox News...

Even at that.. I'm not seeing any kind of connections one way or another when you're talking about someone who's mental health is so bad that he has to take he or she takes the view that it's the worlds fault for their problems and ends up on a killing spree.

[Sagitta]

Roughly 10-15% of all murders in the US are caused by stabbings. That's around 2,000 deaths a year!

Even more disturbing is you can walk into any K-mart, Walmart or thrift store and purchase a butcher knife with no ID requirement... at all!

We should ban all knife sales in the United States, or at least make people take knife safety courses. Just think, when guns are banned, this hidden threat will grow in proportion by leaps and bounds, we should act now!

(sarcasm alert just as a heads up here...)

[boriscleto]

May I ask where you heard or read that? I've yet to read or hear anything on his political views. I'm guessing here where you did but I'd be out on a limb to guess.................. Fox News...

Even at that.. I'm not seeing any kind of connections one way or another when you're talking about someone who's mental health is so bad that he has to take he or she takes the view that it's the worlds fault for their problems and ends up on a killing spree.

The only thing that I've heard is that he's a quiet guy who goes to church.

[boriscleto]

Roughly 10-15% of all murders in the US are caused by stabbings. That's around 2,000 deaths a year!

Even more disturbing is you can walk into any K-mart, Walmart or thrift store and purchase a butcher knife with no ID requirement... at all!

We should ban all knife sales in the United States, or at least make people take knife safety courses. Just think, when guns are banned, this hidden threat will grow in proportion by leaps and bounds, we should act now!

(sarcasm alert just as a heads up here...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010–2011)

A series of uncoordinated mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in the People's Republic of China began in March 2010. The spate of attacks left at least 21 dead and some 90 injured. Analysts have blamed mental health problems caused by rapid social change for the rise in these kind of mass murder and murder-suicide incidents

There was another one a few weeks ago. Stopped when a student gave the assailant a boot to the head. If you're going to assault a school with a knife I guess you should pick one where the students haven't been trained in Kung Fu since they could walk.

[les3547]

I can't believe this statement. Your country is broke, printing phoney money (which is then handed to the scum on Wall Street to prop up their lies) that the tax payer is expected to work to pay it off, you are involved in wars that are costing trillions of dollars and you have the nerve to accuse "the far left" (not involved in the current farce/s) as dreaming up crazy stuff that you will have to pay for? The more I read this shit the more hopeless I feel it all is. America is a basket case.

Do you know what you are talking about, or are you here just to vent your pent up emotions? For example, do you know what I mean by "far left"? If you get off your American-bashing soapbox and speak to people as individuals instead of from your high horse you might find a basis for intelligent discussion.

[Sagitta]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010–2011)



There was another one a few weeks ago. Stopped when a student gave the assailant a boot to the head. If you're going to assault a school with a knife I guess you should pick one where the students haven't been trained in Kung Fu since they could walk.

Pretty much what it means is that crazy people will do crazy things, and the means to help prevent tragedies like this lays in fixing the people, not retroactively going after the tools they used.

Mental health care in the US is astonishingly poor. Then again, in a case like this guy, I don't think anyone could have suspected him to snap from what I've heard so far.

[Blue]

All that crossing out you did was germane to my point, that far-right wingers want to do away with most of central government. Why? Because without the protections, equalizing and redistribution power of the central government, people (as in corporations) can set up their mini-dynasties and make up rules that benefits them alone while screwing the people (sort of like war lord equivalents), OR people can be mavericks and not care about or contribute anything to community. Powerful guns, especially even more powerful than the police have, fit in perfectly with that philosophy because it empowers the every-man-for-himself approach.

In the case of assault weapons, gun registration, detailed tracking of sellers and buyers, etc., I believe the central government needs to have more control, and to force the states to comply with a basic set of rules that eliminates illegal gun sales along with weapons that can kill a lot of people very fast. Of course, the fear of that eventuality is why all the gun nuts are constantly making up ridiculous conspiracies they claim are going to turn our country into a Big Brother nation. We can have our guns and still submit to regulations that help keep the US safer.

Right Winger? I am actually a registered Democrat and member of the faculty union. I keep the cards next to my CCW. I crossed them out because they aren't part of this discussion. If I wanted to banter on that crap, I would participate in the 100 threads on them.

[Blue]

Yes, repeat it often enough and you will believe it; "guns don't kill people...guns don't kill people...guns don't kill people...guns don't kill people...guns don't kill people...guns don't kill people...guns don't kill people...''

It was never a one way contract though as people and guns do kill people

Australia has banned and confiscated 99% of all weapons and is a "Gun Free Zone." Don't worry yourself, you are safe.

[magkelly]

Just an FYI, one of the reasons I think responsible gun owners should stay armed is because of people like this guy and others who we should be able to trust but can't. The other day they busted a cop for selling illegal guns in NYC of all places. I'm sure given his efforts the mayor there is not happy at all. Talk about a major embarrassment to the Force. I mean if you can't trust the cops who can you trust?

[les3547]

Following this thread resulted in me hitting Google a bit, where I got to this rather long piece of information released by the GOA in the USA GUN CONTROL FACT-SHEET (2004) - Gun Owners Of America. It seems well researched and released not long ago (2004). Are they misleading the American public with false claims? Just curious about the strong anti gun feeling from some members...

You can stack up statistics to make a case for either side. I am familiar with all the arguments, and I don't think either extreme is helpful. I was reading a comparison of Japan's strict gun laws and its lack of gun violence to the US and Philippines where gun laws are liberal. But there is a big difference between the cultures. Japan has little crime to begin with, so weapons of any sort wouldn't likely contribute to more violence anyway. The US however has a lot of angry people living in conditions that breed violence. To put weapons in the hands of angry people is asking for trouble.

So the solution here isn't easy, especially since there are so many guns already in circulation. My own "anti-gun feeling" stems from anger over lax gun laws, illegal gun sales, allowing assault-type weapons to reach violent people, and the fact that criminals easily acquire guns. However, as a law-abiding citizen, I wouldn't want my guns taken away until we get them away from criminals, and eliminate illegal channels for reacquiring them. People like Mayor Bloomberg or Rosie O'Donnell would take away all guns without a plan for dealing with the illegal stuff. I actually like California's gun control laws where we can own guns, but are restricted to 10 round clips; can only buy one a month; guns must have certain safety features; and are registered and require a background check for each gun purchased. You can't carry a loaded gun on your person, but you can keep one in your car in a locked container.

Yet I don't believe guns are our real problem or our solution. The real problem is that we have so much crime, and even more, that most people don't know why, and so can't imagine any solution except to throw everybody in jail (which makes them worse criminals). That's the discussion we need to have, and blaming guns for the violence only takes us further away from that conversation.

The thing we can't admit to is that greedy capitalism, the legacy of slavery, and the lack of enough support to get everybody on their feet have created quagmires of hopelessness (primarily in urban areas) that become a breeding ground for gangs, drugs, and violence. That's why I say the far right is our biggest problem . . . because they want to eliminate all social programs, make capitalism God, arm everybody, and the have it one big free for all with the winners taking 98% of the spoils.

[les3547]

Right Winger? I am actually a registered Democrat and member of the faculty union. I keep the cards next to my CCW. I crossed them out because they aren't part of this discussion. If I wanted to banter on that crap, I would participate in the 100 threads on them.

I wasn't calling you a right winger, or implying it. I was however equating your concern over the 4th Amendment to the kind of crazy conspiracy stuff right wingers dream up.