[jogiba]

Do you have amnesia regarding what you wrote? You used them consecutively in a sentence.

WTF are you talking about ? I only posted it once and then added a link to show were I posted "M60 machine gun". Your brain must be fried from playing with guns.

[les3547]

I agree it is illogical to blame guns for violence, but also I think there is a question of whether humans are mature enough to be handed weapons that can kill a bunch of people in a few seconds. That concern may be especially relevant to ignorant Americans who elect/follow the likes of Wayne LaPierre as head of the NRA:

In public, [President Obama will] remind us that he’s put off calls from his party to renew the old Clinton [assault weapons] gun ban, he hasn’t pushed for new gun control laws, and he’ll even say he looked the other way when Congress passed a couple of minor pro-gun bills by huge majorities. The president will offer the Second Amendment lip service and hit the campaign trail saying he’s actually been good for the Second Amendment.

But it’s a big fat stinking lie, just like all the other lies that have come out of this corrupt administration. It’s all part — it’s all part of a massive Obama conspiracy to deceive voters and hide his true intentions to destroy the Second Amendment in our country. [...]

Before the President was even sworn into office, they met and they hatched a conspiracy of public deception to try to guarantee his re-election in 2012. [...]

And Obama himself is no fool. So when he got elected, they concocted a scheme to stay away from the gun issue, lull gun owners to sleep, and play us for fools in 2012. Well, gun owners are not fools, and we are not fooled. We see the president’s strategy crystal clear: get re-elected, and with no other re-elections to worry about, get busy dismantling and destroying our firearms freedom. Erase the Second Amendment from the Bill of Rights and exorcise it from the U.S. Constitution. That’s their agenda.

Add to American ignorance and immaturity the fact that illegal gun sales are responsible for most gun violence, and that the NRA does everything in its power to thwart efforts that could eliminate illegal gun sales, and we have an issue that is a lot more complicated than the "right to bear arms."

[Blue]

. . .


Add to American immaturity the fact that illegal gun sales are responsible for most gun violence, and that the NRA does everything in its power to thwart efforts that could eliminate illegal gun sales, and we have an issue that is a lot more complicated that the "right to bear arms."

The devil is in the details here. It sounds like code for California/New Jersey style gun registration. I notice few people some disturbed by the perps use of tear gas and incendiary devices in his apartment with intentions to send the entire building up to distract police, fire and ambulances over there prior to the theater massacre. As far as maturity goes, the guy was one of UC-Riverside's brightest science graduates and was working on a Ph.D. in neuroscience. Somewhere along the line he cracked.

[jogiba]

From Aurora police chief:

- James Holmes purchased 4 weapons in last 60 days at metro area gun shops.

- Through internet, he purchased more than six thousand rounds of ammunition. More than 3000 rounds for assault rifle. More than 3000 rounds for the two glocks. And 300 rounds for 12 gauge shotgun.

-Purchased multiple magazines for assault rifle, including a 100 round drum magazine - that could have fired 50 - 60 rounds in less than one minute.

Colorado Theater Massacre: 12 dead, 59 injured

Gun lovin sick bastard.

---

Last edited by jogiba; 07-20-2012 at 06:36 PM.

[les3547]

The devil is in the details here. It sounds like code for California/New Jersey style gun registration. I notice few people some disturbed by the perps use of tear gas and incendiary devices in his apartment with intentions to send the entire building up to distract police, fire and ambulances over there prior to the theater massacre. As far as maturity goes, the guy was one of UC-Riverside's brightest science graduates and was working on a Ph.D. in neuroscience. Somewhere along the line he cracked.

Do you think being bright equates to maturity? And I assume we are talking about whether large caliber, large magazine automatic weapons should be so available to Americans, not specifically this incident (yes, he seems insane). America has plenty of insane people who we decline to care for, and who we then criminalize after they break the law. We have huge numbers of people wigged out on crack and other drugs, we have gangs that developed because it's the best opportunity their community offers. We have a great many people addicted to prescription drugs too, and a lot of angry, conspiracy-believin' Americans.

And right in the midst of this you have the NRA and those who agree with it fighting efforts to control who gets guns, registering guns, and keeping detailed records of who buys and sells weapons, and who at the same time spreads paranoid conspiracy theories to people who we'd prefer not to be made crazier.

[WillH]

Too bad some of the midnight movie goers weren't armed and capable of defending themselves. A little more self defense and swift justice would curtail these nut cases. No interviews! No notoriety! No years of legal rights defense.

[downhill]

It all comes down to ignorant stupidity, buzz words, hype, political agendas, and general bullsh*t.


It amazes me how many libtards go crazy over these tragic events, but don't b*tch for a single second about the number of alcohol and drug related vehicle accidents or the number of people killed on motorcycles every single day.

Liberals: making a career out of hypocrisy and double standards.
Liberalism: ideas so good, they're mandatory.

It was a fairly intelligent conversation till it got to this guy......

The fact is there are liberals who are members of the NRA and there are conservatives who believe the assault rile ban should never have expired and even some who believe in gun control. But in saying that, it would depend on your source for news and such to make it black and white. Thank you for the "buzz words"...

[Blue]

. . .

And right in the midst of this you have the NRA and those who agree with it fighting efforts to control who gets guns, registering guns, and keeping detailed records of who buys and sells weapons, and who at the same time spreads paranoid conspiracy theories to people who we'd prefer not to be made crazier.

You left out a paranoid Government made up of a plethora of agencies that aren't always on the level. Gun registration isn't a fix for this problem. It is however one step towards dismantling the 4th Amendment. Florida doesn't link ccw to license plates because cops were pulling people over in some jurisdictions because of it. That is why FDACS (Agriculture and Consumer Affairs) handles the licenses in co-operation with FDLE (Florida Dept of Law Enforcement). It is good that the M.A.T.R.I.X. system lost traction following 2005. It was a system spear headed by Florida that would link everything about you through your plates, credit rating, medical records, etc etc.

Edit: In the mean time, the police are still trying to dismantle the incendiary bombs. They are considering set it off and have the fire dept put it out. This punk had some money to drop on weapons and ordinance.

[slackercruster]

Listen up....and I'm only going to tell you this once!

You will always have sick people that do crazy stuff. They live a life of hell and when they snap they want to take as many people as they can with them. When you have freedom, you must expect that some people will abuse that freedom.

As our food supply gets worse and people are fed a bad diet, more and more of them will go off the deep end. In addition out world is getting more stressful every day that goes by. In the old days when I was a kid it cost me $6.50 a semester to go to L.A.C.C.

Cal State L.A., was $63 a trimester. Take 1 class or take 10 classes it was $63. So it was no hardship for me to go to college. Nowadays the kids start out with backbreaking dept from colleges that are in lock step with the greedy bankers and Wall Street. They can't get a good job and pay off their debt. So people are under a great deal of stress nowadays.

But...don't blame senseless killings on guns..For a USA without guns would be far worse than the few killings by nut bags we have every so often. You must take the good with the bad when it comes to guns.

For if you want a USA that is devoid of guns...then this is what you will have...

[les3547]

Gun registration isn't a fix for this problem. It is however one step towards dismantling the 4th Amendment.

Explain this to me, I can't see it.

As far as I can tell, human rights have progressed under federal law. It was the feds who ended slavery, who got behind universal suffrage, worked for equal rights for minorities, gays, et al . . .

Yet too often it is the same people who don't want their guns registered or restrictions on automatic weapons, and who preach conspiracy theories to a paranoid audience, who are also just fine with the latest voter registration BS or shutting down Planned Parenthood. I fear losing my rights far more because of the people insisting their "rights" cannot be realized unless they are totally free from participating in, contributing to, or obeying federal authority (and that includes paying enough taxes to keep the country running).

[Blue]

Explain this to me, I can't see it.

As far as I can tell, human rights have progressed under federal law. It was the feds who ended slavery, who got behind universal suffrage, worked for equal rights for minorities, gays, et al . . .

Yet too often it is the same people who don't want their guns registered or restrictions on automatic weapons, and who preach conspiracy theories to a paranoid audience, who are also just fine with the latest voter registration BS or shutting down Planned Parenthood. I fear losing my rights far more because of the people insisting their "rights" cannot be realized unless they are totally free from participating in, contributing to, or obeying federal authority (and that includes paying enough taxes to keep the country running).

It wouldn't have prevented this Nutt from walking in there and doing what he did. Registration is the first step to setting up confiscation as well as 4th Amendment issues. This is what happened in UK, NZ, Australia and partially in Canada for example. It was even done in NYC in the early 90s based on a registration system enacted in 1967. It also sets up a vehicle for taxing the firearms and NY has had bills on this recently (2011) for this very thing.

http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/api/1.0/html/bill/S2994-2011

I already mentioned what happened before Florida outlawed linking CCW info to a persons license plate info. People were getting pulled over and harassed in some jurisdictions such as Tampa. Its not paranoia, its fact.

I am not really sure what slavery and suffrage has to do with it so I just struck it out. However, I find it odd you don't think someone should show ID at to verify they are them at the polls. You can't do anything else without one whether its cash a check, or buy a pistol or drive a car or get a hotel room or board a plane.

[Phil1]

He is a 24 YO Phd. drop out neuro-science student. The media says he is a registered Democrat and into *Black Block tactics. He had orange dyed hair and called himself "The Joker". It is manifestly clear we should ban universities, professors, Hollywood, Jack Nickolson movies, violent computer games and orange hair dye. Aurora is a "gun free" area so the gun ban laws are already in place. You just can't trust a damn liberal criminal to obey the law any more. Damn Tea Party. The Arizona shooter as well as Zimmerman were also Democrats.

* Black bloc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.

The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them"

Thomas Paine, Writings of Thomas Paine [1894])

Having said all that in satire, the shooter was very well protected with a ballistic helmet, neck, chest, groin and pant armour. An armed defender would have to have a very good face-on head shot to stop him with a lower velocity hand gun. This obviously was a long planned tragedy. His apartment was even booby trapped and they have yet to enter it.The LA police had a terrible time with hand guns in the infamous North Hollywood Bank shoot out against armour and rifles. They had to "borrow" weapons from a sporting goods store near by. You can YouTube that event. and there is good video on it. I don't think there is much that can be legislated against this type of insanity.

[les3547]

It wouldn't have prevented this Nutt from walking in there and doing what he did. Registration is the first step to setting up confiscation as well as 4th Amendment issues. This is what happened in UK, NZ, Australia and partially in Canada for example. It was even done in NYC in the early 90s based on a registration system enacted in 1967. It also sets up a vehicle for taxing the firearms and NY has had bills on this recently (2011) for this very thing.

S2994-2011 - NY Senate Open Legislation - Provides for the registration of firearms by the owner thereof at the county clerks office of the county where the owner resides, except in New York City - New York State Senate

I already mentioned what happened before Florida outlawed linking CCW info to a persons license plate info. People were getting pulled over and harassed in some jurisdictions such as Tampa. Its not paranoia, its fact.

I am not really sure what slavery and suffrage has to do with it so I just struck it out. However, I find it odd you don't think someone should show ID at to verify they are them at the polls. You can't do anything else without one whether its cash a check, or buy a pistol or drive a car or get a hotel room or board a plane.

All that crossing out you did was germane to my point, that far-right wingers want to do away with most of central government. Why? Because without the protections, equalizing and redistribution power of the central government, people (as in corporations) can set up their mini-dynasties and make up rules that benefits them alone while screwing the people (sort of like war lord equivalents), OR people can be mavericks and not care about or contribute anything to community. Powerful guns, especially even more powerful than the police have, fit in perfectly with that philosophy because it empowers the every-man-for-himself approach.

In the case of assault weapons, gun registration, detailed tracking of sellers and buyers, etc., I believe the central government needs to have more control, and to force the states to comply with a basic set of rules that eliminates illegal gun sales along with weapons that can kill a lot of people very fast. Of course, the fear of that eventuality is why all the gun nuts are constantly making up ridiculous conspiracies they claim are going to turn our country into a Big Brother nation. We can have our guns and still submit to regulations that help keep the US safer.

[Wheatfield]

It amazes me how many libtards go crazy over these tragic events, but don't b*tch for a single second about the number of alcohol and drug related vehicle accidents or the number of people killed on motorcycles every single day.

Apparently you don't have your eyes open very wide. Liberals (at least in Canada) have ensured that there are education programs and continual blasting of advertising relating to the perils of drinking and driving, doing drugs and driving, texting and driving, etc.
Not that it seems to do much good, but at least we try.
We certainly don't actively promote shoot to kill laws, and in fact in Canada, the Liberals were the ones who attempted to put a national gun registry in place (which was, admittedly a vastly overpriced boondoggle).
But at least they tried. The Conservatives are dismantling it now.

For myself, I used to think there was, in some way, some sort of correlation between the startlingly high number of gun related crimes in the USA and the very lax purchasing laws and easy to get carry permits.
However, the gun lobby has convinced me that there is absolutely no correlation between the USA being the gun crime capital of the world and the number of guns, or the attitude towards guns or how many guns are carried by people in public, or how many guns are just left around people's houses loaded and with the safeties off.
I'm also convinced that American's are no more violent than any other nationality in the world, and that the huge numbers of your people who are killed by firearms every years are completely coincidental to the firearm themselves, or to any external force.
I have come to believe that it is pure coincidence that countries that have strict gun laws have lower rates of gun crime, that Liberal democracies tend to have overall lower crime rates in general and gun crimes in particular, and that it is absolutely impossible to make any connection between guns and crimes committed with guns, or to draw any conclusions about crime rates in the USA compared to crime rates everywhere else and pin down American society as being more violent.

[dankoBanana]

someone mentioned guns dont kill people. I say they help a lot. Try killing 12 people with a fork or a knife.
Personally, I'm for gun control, but I realize that some people are not. Thats ok, we agree to disagree. But I do not get people who are against a ban on assault weapons. SOME weapons are made to kill people. It should be illegal to buy a clip for a gun with 32 (or whatever) bullets. Or a 100 round drum magazine. Noone needs that to hunt. If they do, they should quit hunting because they suck. And for the gentlemen who said that by that logic we should ban cars I say that cars arent made to kill people, (some) guns are. That would be the difference.