Just remember that U.S. "fired first" against Iran

Tom S. · 07-25-2012, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Medium FormatPro

Kennedy??

Also gotta love the american perspective; don't like it leave. Instead of what america was founded on; don't like it, take a stand and fix it - instead of giving up on it. But then again most americans are just plain lazy and not involved whatsoever in their country - almost like spectators watching the world go by.

Are you a US citizen?

redrockcoulee · 07-25-2012, 01:42 PM

As far as who fired the first shot, the US lead the overthrow of a democratically elected left leaning government and helped install the Shah and his brutal regime. No doubt there were reasons for the Shah and the election of the leftist government and why it was or was not good to remove the elected government. And other factors as well.

Picking a starting point in a vacuum and ignoring what lead to it is meaningless other than to score points in a debate. The reason the American Embassy was occupied had lots to do with the resentment of the US support of the Shah. To ignore the lead up to the Revolution is missing much of the story. I am not saying what the Iranians did was right or that their current regime is perfect or even tolerable but to ignore what came before is viewing on part of the picture. Even Islamism has not been forever in that region if you look at the histories of most of the countries in the past 100 years.

It is not my intention for this being viewed as an Anti-American post but rather an anti-lets look at only selective factors and ignore the rest one.

seacapt · 07-25-2012, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Tom S.

And for what it's worth, it's America - with a capital A.

I noticed that MFP afforded the due respect and propper use of the language to all countries mentioned except the United States of America since he started this threadand his posts in other threads for that matter. I was having a difficult time finding a civil way to discuss it with him. Thanks
BTW I might not have had the words medium format pro in mind when I used the initials MFP

Wheatfield · 07-25-2012, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by Tom S.

how many people have American Presidents sent to the gulag or ordered executed out of fear or paranoia?

Well, there is Guantanamo Bay.
And it is fairly well known that Extraordinary Rendition is code for outsourcing torture.

Medium FormatPro · 07-26-2012, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Well, there is Guantanamo Bay. And it is fairly well known that Extraordinary Rendition is code for outsourcing torture

I wonder how many americans have seen the movie Rendition? I'm making an educated guess by claiming; not many.

It's also interesting to see how many americans have a clear understanding of perspectives from outside of their country. As mentioned in an earlier posting by someone else; americans aren't well thought of throughout the world - and for good reason. Starting waiving the american flag at a mmajority of places overseas and one might as well be painting a target onto themselves.

Tom S. · 07-26-2012, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Medium FormatPro

I wonder how many americans have seen the movie Rendition? I'm making an educated guess by claiming; not many.

It's also interesting to see how many americans have a clear understanding of perspectives from outside of their country. As mentioned in an earlier posting by someone else; americans aren't well thought of throughout the world - and for good reason. Starting waiving the american flag at a mmajority of places overseas and one might as well be painting a target onto themselves.

I'll ask again because you must have missed the first inquiry:

Are you a US citizen?

dankoBanana · 07-27-2012, 06:53 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Tom S.

I'll ask again because you must have missed the first inquiry:

Are you a US citizen?

feel free to talk about his birth certificate through private messages. his citizenship is not the topic

Blue · 07-27-2012, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by redrockcoulee

As far as who fired the first shot, the US lead the overthrow of a democratically elected left leaning government and helped install the Shah and his brutal regime. No doubt there were reasons for the Shah and the election of the leftist government and why it was or was not good to remove the elected government. And other factors as well.

Picking a starting point in a vacuum and ignoring what lead to it is meaningless other than to score points in a debate. The reason the American Embassy was occupied had lots to do with the resentment of the US support of the Shah. To ignore the lead up to the Revolution is missing much of the story. I am not saying what the Iranians did was right or that their current regime is perfect or even tolerable but to ignore what came before is viewing on part of the picture. Even Islamism has not been forever in that region if you look at the histories of most of the countries in the past 100 years.

It is not my intention for this being viewed as an Anti-American post but rather an anti-lets look at only selective factors and ignore the rest one.

That so-called democratic government was dubious. Plus, the U.S. keep the Brits from doing that for a while. Furthermore, attacking an Embassy is equivalent to attacking the soil of the flag flying over it. Its on the same level as violating a flag of truce.

Blue · 07-27-2012, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by dankoBanana

feel free to talk about his birth certificate through private messages. his citizenship is not the topic

Are you a U.S. citizen? (rhetorical)

Tom S. · 07-27-2012, 12:18 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by dankoBanana

feel free to talk about his birth certificate through private messages. his citizenship is not the topic

I don't remember asking you.

However, since you feel obligated to butt in, let me say that I have a problem with foreigners living in our country and telling us how bad it is. Since he has ignored the post, it's obvious he it a US citizen, and that directly impacts some of the statements he has made and reinforces my love it or leave it message to him.

Wheatfield · 07-27-2012, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Tom S.

I don't remember asking you.

However, since you feel obligated to butt in, let me say that I have a problem with foreigners

I fixed your post to more reflect what you really think, based on what you write.

Medium FormatPro · 07-28-2012, 04:32 AM

That's okay; because native americans also had a problem with foreigners. The first settlers here completely massacred the native americans

Tom S. · 07-28-2012, 05:00 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I fixed your post to more reflect what you really think, based on what you write.

Like I told the other poster, I wasn't talking to you. Fix your own posts to say how much you disdain Americans and leave mine alone. Everyone who came to America was a foreigner, even the 'natives'. For the most part, they become citizens. It's the ones who don't become citizens but sit around trying to tell me how screwed up they thing our country is that stick in my craw.

dankoBanana · 07-28-2012, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by Tom S.

It's the ones who don't become citizens but sit around trying to tell me how screwed up they thing our country is that stick in my craw.

really? the countries your goverment "liberated" would be happy if they were only told how screwed up they are. Stop being a nancy and try to take critique gracefully. Or ignore it. whatever

Medium FormatPro · 07-28-2012, 06:30 AM

The question topic s foreign affairs for "whatever amount"...

Which NATO country was invaded by Russia; btw not to be confused with the former Soviet Union??

Because according to NATO; all of the NATO countries (america included) are supposed to come to the aide, rescue, and to sacrifice anything for any one country. Think of it as a type of trade union.

But under the above mentioned example; this NATO country was invaded by Russia and; well in excess of some 1k (yes thats one thousand) main battle tanks, and an additional well over 2k other armored units. Yet this was all ignored by the rest of NATO.

america can think that they can pick and choose their wars. The wars that america does choose to be involved in though (ever since WWII) have been massive failures. The largest failure of them all; Iraq.

07-25-2012, 04:50 PM	#33
seacapt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina , USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,271	Originally posted by Tom S. And for what it's worth, it's America - with a capital A. I noticed that MFP afforded the due respect and propper use of the language to all countries mentioned except the United States of America since he started this threadand his posts in other threads for that matter. I was having a difficult time finding a civil way to discuss it with him. Thanks BTW I might not have had the words medium format pro in mind when I used the initials MFP Last edited by seacapt; 07-27-2012 at 07:43 AM.

07-27-2012, 10:30 AM	#39
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by dankoBanana feel free to talk about his birth certificate through private messages. his citizenship is not the topic Are you a U.S. citizen? (rhetorical) Last edited by Blue; 07-27-2012 at 10:59 AM.

07-27-2012, 12:18 PM - 1 Like	#40
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by dankoBanana feel free to talk about his birth certificate through private messages. his citizenship is not the topic I don't remember asking you. However, since you feel obligated to butt in, let me say that I have a problem with foreigners living in our country and telling us how bad it is. Since he has ignored the post, it's obvious he it a US citizen, and that directly impacts some of the statements he has made and reinforces my love it or leave it message to him. Last edited by Tom S.; 07-27-2012 at 01:52 PM.

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07-25-2012, 12:05 PM	#31
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by Medium FormatPro Kennedy?? Also gotta love the american perspective; don't like it leave. Instead of what america was founded on; don't like it, take a stand and fix it - instead of giving up on it. But then again most americans are just plain lazy and not involved whatsoever in their country - almost like spectators watching the world go by. Are you a US citizen?

07-25-2012, 01:42 PM	#32
redrockcoulee Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Medicine Hat Posts: 2,306	As far as who fired the first shot, the US lead the overthrow of a democratically elected left leaning government and helped install the Shah and his brutal regime. No doubt there were reasons for the Shah and the election of the leftist government and why it was or was not good to remove the elected government. And other factors as well. Picking a starting point in a vacuum and ignoring what lead to it is meaningless other than to score points in a debate. The reason the American Embassy was occupied had lots to do with the resentment of the US support of the Shah. To ignore the lead up to the Revolution is missing much of the story. I am not saying what the Iranians did was right or that their current regime is perfect or even tolerable but to ignore what came before is viewing on part of the picture. Even Islamism has not been forever in that region if you look at the histories of most of the countries in the past 100 years. It is not my intention for this being viewed as an Anti-American post but rather an anti-lets look at only selective factors and ignore the rest one.

07-25-2012, 06:27 PM	#34
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by Tom S. how many people have American Presidents sent to the gulag or ordered executed out of fear or paranoia? Well, there is Guantanamo Bay. And it is fairly well known that Extraordinary Rendition is code for outsourcing torture.

07-26-2012, 06:10 AM	#35
Medium FormatPro Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh Photos: Albums Posts: 1,668 Original Poster	Originally posted by Wheatfield Well, there is Guantanamo Bay. And it is fairly well known that Extraordinary Rendition is code for outsourcing torture I wonder how many americans have seen the movie Rendition? I'm making an educated guess by claiming; not many. It's also interesting to see how many americans have a clear understanding of perspectives from outside of their country. As mentioned in an earlier posting by someone else; americans aren't well thought of throughout the world - and for good reason. Starting waiving the american flag at a mmajority of places overseas and one might as well be painting a target onto themselves.

07-26-2012, 12:13 PM	#36
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by Medium FormatPro I wonder how many americans have seen the movie Rendition? I'm making an educated guess by claiming; not many. It's also interesting to see how many americans have a clear understanding of perspectives from outside of their country. As mentioned in an earlier posting by someone else; americans aren't well thought of throughout the world - and for good reason. Starting waiving the american flag at a mmajority of places overseas and one might as well be painting a target onto themselves. I'll ask again because you must have missed the first inquiry: Are you a US citizen?

07-27-2012, 06:53 AM - 1 Like	#37
dankoBanana Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 533	Originally posted by Tom S. I'll ask again because you must have missed the first inquiry: Are you a US citizen? feel free to talk about his birth certificate through private messages. his citizenship is not the topic

07-27-2012, 10:29 AM	#38
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by redrockcoulee As far as who fired the first shot, the US lead the overthrow of a democratically elected left leaning government and helped install the Shah and his brutal regime. No doubt there were reasons for the Shah and the election of the leftist government and why it was or was not good to remove the elected government. And other factors as well. Picking a starting point in a vacuum and ignoring what lead to it is meaningless other than to score points in a debate. The reason the American Embassy was occupied had lots to do with the resentment of the US support of the Shah. To ignore the lead up to the Revolution is missing much of the story. I am not saying what the Iranians did was right or that their current regime is perfect or even tolerable but to ignore what came before is viewing on part of the picture. Even Islamism has not been forever in that region if you look at the histories of most of the countries in the past 100 years. It is not my intention for this being viewed as an Anti-American post but rather an anti-lets look at only selective factors and ignore the rest one. That so-called democratic government was dubious. Plus, the U.S. keep the Brits from doing that for a while. Furthermore, attacking an Embassy is equivalent to attacking the soil of the flag flying over it. Its on the same level as violating a flag of truce.

07-27-2012, 03:39 PM	#41
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by Tom S. I don't remember asking you. However, since you feel obligated to butt in, let me say that I have a problem with foreigners I fixed your post to more reflect what you really think, based on what you write.

07-28-2012, 04:32 AM	#42
Medium FormatPro Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh Photos: Albums Posts: 1,668 Original Poster	That's okay; because native americans also had a problem with foreigners. The first settlers here completely massacred the native americans

07-28-2012, 05:00 AM	#43
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by Wheatfield I fixed your post to more reflect what you really think, based on what you write. Like I told the other poster, I wasn't talking to you. Fix your own posts to say how much you disdain Americans and leave mine alone. Everyone who came to America was a foreigner, even the 'natives'. For the most part, they become citizens. It's the ones who don't become citizens but sit around trying to tell me how screwed up they thing our country is that stick in my craw.

07-28-2012, 05:23 AM	#44
dankoBanana Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 533	Originally posted by Tom S. It's the ones who don't become citizens but sit around trying to tell me how screwed up they thing our country is that stick in my craw. really? the countries your goverment "liberated" would be happy if they were only told how screwed up they are. Stop being a nancy and try to take critique gracefully. Or ignore it. whatever

07-28-2012, 06:30 AM	#45
Medium FormatPro Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh Photos: Albums Posts: 1,668 Original Poster	The question topic s foreign affairs for "whatever amount"... Which NATO country was invaded by Russia; btw not to be confused with the former Soviet Union?? Because according to NATO; all of the NATO countries (america included) are supposed to come to the aide, rescue, and to sacrifice anything for any one country. Think of it as a type of trade union. But under the above mentioned example; this NATO country was invaded by Russia and; well in excess of some 1k (yes thats one thousand) main battle tanks, and an additional well over 2k other armored units. Yet this was all ignored by the rest of NATO. america can think that they can pick and choose their wars. The wars that america does choose to be involved in though (ever since WWII) have been massive failures. The largest failure of them all; Iraq.