[GeneV]

How Russia has changed, and then not. Under communism, religion was discouraged. Now, a female punk band, whose name I will not post, has been prosecuted and there will be jail time sought for "abuse of God." Russia's girl punk band faces jail after Putin protest insults Russian Orthodox Church | Mail Online Of course the fact that they were protesting Putin did not help.

[jeffkrol]

How Russia has changed, and then not. Under communism, religion was discouraged. Now, a female punk band, whose name I will not post, has been prosecuted and there will be jail time sought for "abuse of God." Russia's girl punk band faces jail after Putin protest insults Russian Orthodox Church | Mail Online Of course the fact that they were protesting Putin did not help.

There named after a cat moniker............... but yes the concept is interesting... though since when is selectively using church doctrine to further a political /statist end ever really been discouraged here??

scarey.............

The trio's protest also took aim at Patriarch Kirill, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, and infuriated church leaders who have described Putin's 12-year rule as a 'miracle of God' and described the women as doing the work of the devil.

No seperation of church and state in Russia???

[ihasa]

Dear God, what retardedness....

[wildman]

Dear God, what retardedness....

Right up to the Revolution the intelligentsia in Russia was still debating the wisdom of freeing the serfs.

After spending a summer in Kiev under the old regime as a military attache I can tell you this sort of thing
does not surprise me in the least. The Church still has a very ancient deep resonance among the common people so
Putin has little to worry about.

Russia has always been culturally very insular. So long as he has the Russian people with him foreign opinion matters for little in something that touches on Russian identity. Politically he knows exactly what he is doing - hell, given Russian culture
he may even be sincere on this issue.

---

Last edited by wildman; 08-08-2012 at 07:06 AM.

[magkelly]

The church in Russia never died and that was despite the fact that the communists there tried their level best to root that "superstition" out of the people. All people did was hide their icons for a while. The Russians like God the way they like their vodka and their pessimistic poets. It's a major part of their heritage and no government can ever stop them from going there. I've known quite a few Russians and I have to say that while I usually liked them as individuals they were a strange bunch as a general rule. Genial, hard working, but also prone towards some very dark moods at times. I guess I would be too if I had grown up in their culture, under the kind of oppression they have lived under for so long.

[boriscleto]

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[wildman]

It worked exactly as they planned - they wanted a reaction and they got it.
Where's the beef?

[ihasa]

It serves to focus attention on the dubious relationship between Putin and the church.

[GeneV]

I see that the female band was convicted of "hooliganism." I've never understood this crime, which I often read about in certain communist countries. China abolished this dubious crime in 1997. China’s last hooliganism convict, should convict continue serving his sentence for a repealed law? | ChinaHush Is this a translation problem, or has Russia really gone back to using this vague crime?

[boriscleto]

I see that the female band was convicted of "hooliganism." I've never understood this crime, which I often read about in certain communist countries. China abolished this dubious crime in 1997. China’s last hooliganism convict, should convict continue serving his sentence for a repealed law? | ChinaHush Is this a translation problem, or has Russia really gone back to using this vague crime?

Back in the early '90s, right after the collapse of the Soviet Union, my father's boss got involved with a Russian gangster (even married his sister). This guy's brother was in prison for brigandage.

Brigandage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not a crime you see much in the US anymore.

[wildman]

hooliganism

Gene,
I had my wife read the Russian language websites on this issue - in another life she was once a teacher of Slavic literature.

She said its basic sense as used in this case was - any behavior that was notoriously inconsistent with public norms of behavior and good order especially by a organized group .

She stressed the "notorious" part as she understood it. People could probably hold any view they want and publish in mags newspapers the net etc. But to use a nationally important public cultural landmark as a platform for this dissent was considered beyond the pale and formally illegal.

[GeneV]

Gene,
I had my wife read the Russian language websites on this issue - in another life she was once a teacher of Slavic literature.

She said its basic sense as used in this case was - any behavior that was notoriously inconsistent with public norms of behavior and good order especially by a organized group .

She stressed the "notorious" part as she understood it. People could probably hold any view they want and publish in mags newspapers the net etc. But to use a primary Russian cultural landmark as a platform for this dissent was considered beyond the pale and formally illegal.

The problem with that kind of crime is that it is entirely subjective and can be used however those in power decide. Here, it would be struck down as void for vagueness, as were many loitering laws.

[eddie1960]

I see that the female band was convicted of "hooliganism." I've never understood this crime, which I often read about in certain communist countries. China abolished this dubious crime in 1997. China’s last hooliganism convict, should convict continue serving his sentence for a repealed law? | ChinaHush Is this a translation problem, or has Russia really gone back to using this vague crime?

this is a big part of the issue, their crime was a political protest, the guy heading the church was put in place by Putin, and they have been cracking down heavily on any kind of non sanctioned political protest. the Girls did this in an empty church (they should have done it out the front IMO but things are what they are) and it was a protest against Putin and his cronies (many of home are also ex kgb)
There are protests all over the world today for this (there is one just starting now at the consulate in Toronto (if i wasn't stuck at work I'd be there a lot of my friends are) - and it was organized by a fairly conservative middle aged mother not a usual suspect political protestor)

they've already spent 5 months in jail for this (which is longer than they should have) and they are in danger of getting up to 7 years which is just overkill. Putin is using this law as a protest suppression tool plain and simple.

It's really a sad statement on the Russian government

Edit - the FB page for the Toronto event had a few suspected KBG people on one of the threads - the women admining it handled it very well, some of the Russian expats though were really upset by them)

[wildman]

The problem with that kind of crime is that it is entirely subjective and can be used however those in power decide. Here, it would be struck down as void for vagueness, as were many loitering laws.

Exactly so.

Apparently these young ladies decided to protest in the wrong country.

I wonder how it would be handled here if something similar happened at our National Cathedral in Washington DC.

[boriscleto]

Daily Kos: Two Years for Pussy Riot