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08-17-2012, 03:47 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Aussies sticking up for a countryman is understandable. But isn't this about if any government is entitled to confidentiality with sensitive (but not illegal) subjects? Assange, if he wanted to be conscientious, could've read the documents to find the material people should know, and published only that. It seemed to me he wanted to do damage (and possibly glorify himself) no matter how unwarranted that damage was or what it did to the system (the only system we've got).


Last edited by les3547; 08-17-2012 at 04:04 PM.
08-17-2012, 04:14 PM   #32
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and if he had released a million documents about N. Korea and Iran he would be what?
A US hero glorified for his bravery..........
08-17-2012, 04:17 PM   #33
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An Aussie sticking up for an Aussie may well be understandable, (and in this country that is not an overwhelming majority position) but no more so than Americans sticking up for a dubious legal process that Assange WILL be exposed to if he is extradited to Sweden, and thus the US. I have absolutely ZERO faith in the likelyhood of the US judicial system acting in a hands off, non political way if Assange should ever stand trial in the US. Trail for what? One may ask. It is not actually a treasonable act to disclose the secrets of ANOTHER Government. Assange is an Australian citizen, not a citizen of the USA. What right does the US have to demand his head on a block for exposing some of their dirty little secrets? As far as I'm aware the Australian government does not want to charge Assange with treason for exposing Australian government secret cables, so what right does the US government have? Does anyone here remeber David Hicks and the disgraceful treatment he got at the hands of our 'great and true friends'?
08-17-2012, 04:43 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
and if he had released a million documents about N. Korea and Iran he would be what?
A US hero glorified for his bravery..........
I don't see how is that comparable. If he does something that makes the world safer for us all, then he is a hero (and that includes exposing world-damaging US secrets). But if he dumps a bunch of documents online that hurts honest efforts by others to make the world safer, then he is no hero.


QuoteOriginally posted by wizofoz Quote
An Aussie sticking up for an Aussie may well be understandable, (and in this country that is not an overwhelming majority position) but no more so than Americans sticking up for a dubious legal process that Assange WILL be exposed to if he is extradited to Sweden, and thus the US.
You are right, and I am not sticking up for the US wanting to charge him with treason. Actually, none of the legal stuff was on my mind when I posted. I was just speaking to the attitude that some people seem to have that Assange is some sort of hero when in the US incident at least he seemed self-serving.
.


Last edited by les3547; 08-17-2012 at 07:37 PM.
08-17-2012, 07:36 PM   #35
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The issue here is not that we don't think he might be a rapist or sexual offender; it's more we don't trust a (the only Western) country that still has the barbaric death penalty, especially when it's the same country that will ignore all human rights in place of oil. I'm a Brit: my country has also been a huge problem to the rest of the world; Falklands anyone? So not a dig at the US per se - hell. I'm from the country that invented the concentration camp and that fired chainshot at my own ancestors. What us Europeans get upset by is the idea that a law that has been passed in the US is assumed to be valid and enforceable in the US whether it's a part of the other country's statute or not, and that the assumption is that anyone from anywhere in the world can be kidnapped and made to stand trial for a crime that is not a crime in their own country. As US intelligence and the US state still regularly contravene the Hague Convention then is it any wonder we're worried about this case?

I'm sure that some operatives have died because they were unveiled by wikileaks, same as many, many Iraqis, Kurds and Palestinians have died as well. War is sad; people die and widows and orphans are left behind but I feel it is better that there are no Dachaus, no Guantanamos and no Belfasts, and if that does happen that the people behind it are shown up and named as the causes of the unnecessary violence and death. Assange has shown up and named some people and institutions that have caused enormous death and destruction. The US state doesn't like that, neither does the UK state. Both are implicit in war crimes and both want revenge for having been found out as having not told the truth about, eg, WMD or the non-link between Iraq, 911 and the London bombings.

To go back to my original thread title - sometimes I'm ashamed to be British. There is no intention of reaching justice here; just revenge for blowing the whistle.

Last edited by wildweasel; 08-17-2012 at 08:25 PM.
08-17-2012, 07:46 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildweasel Quote
Les, word to the wise - outside of the US, nobody trusts the U[S]
"Nobody" might be a bit strong, but I'm pretty sure I understand that as much as anyone. All I can say is, you should be hoping Obama is reelected. Waiting in the wings is the old guard ready to take us back in the old direction.

Last edited by les3547; 08-17-2012 at 07:51 PM.
08-17-2012, 08:33 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by les3547 Quote
"Nobody" might be a bit strong, but I'm pretty sure I understand that as much as anyone. All I can say is, you should be hoping Obama is reelected. Waiting in the wings is the old guard ready to take us back in the old direction.
'nother word to the wise - started writing that; realised it was little more than trolling; and deleted it. You happened to catch it before I hit the edit button...

And as for Obama - not made my mind up on him yet, but when the alternative's Mittens... At least Sarah Palin is easy on the eye

08-17-2012, 08:49 PM   #38
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This just in!

"The US, meanwhile, has said it "does not recognise the concept of diplomatic asylum as a matter of international law"." Read that again. Then again. Now weep; it's all that's left to you.

BBC News - Julian Assange: UK wants 'amicable solution'
08-17-2012, 10:25 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
So rape is only rape if the victim is smaller than the attacker?
Nope, I said it's just not very plausible that the 'lady' is telling the truth. And not only for that reason, but for a number of reasons.

- Her stature would have allowed her to fight off Assange easily.
- She escorted him happily AFTER the 'rape'.
- She only claimed rape after Assange's Wikileaks leakages.

Rape is very unlickely. The motives for making up a story about rape is clear and plausible.
08-18-2012, 01:10 AM   #40
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I'm an Aussie, & I ain't "supporting" this guy one little bit.
Cheers, Pickles.
08-18-2012, 01:27 AM   #41
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Pickels, I'm not in the least surprised that you and I have different ideas on this matter.
08-18-2012, 01:27 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by pickles Quote
I'm an Aussie, & I ain't "supporting" this guy one little bit.
Cheers, Pickles.
Well done. You quite clearly missed the entire point of the thread. It's not about him but about the process, or distortion of.

Disgusting behaviour by both the UK and the US. Revenge not justice is the agenda here.
08-18-2012, 01:52 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildweasel Quote
Read that again. Then again. Now weep; it's all that's left to you.
Luckily the UK and Ecuador DO recognise the concept of diplomatic asylum and that's really all that matters here. For all it's bluster, I don't think the UK are going to break the door down, as this would set an unfortunate precedent that could be repeated in UK embassies all over the world... Plus we would riot.

QuoteQuote:
The US government Friday refused to recognize the diplomatic asylum that Ecuador granted to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange as the Organization of American States (OAS) considers convening a meeting on the issue.

"The United States is not a party to the 1954 OAS Convention on Diplomatic Asylum and does not recognize the concept of diplomatic asylum as a matter of international law," said State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland in a statement.

"We believe this is a bilateral issue between Ecuador and the United Kingdom and that the OAS has no role to play in this matter," she added.
08-18-2012, 02:16 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by les3547 Quote
Aussies sticking up for a countryman is understandable. But isn't this about if any government is entitled to confidentiality with sensitive (but not illegal) subjects? Assange, if he wanted to be conscientious, could've read the documents to find the material people should know, and published only that. It seemed to me he wanted to do damage (and possibly glorify himself) no matter how unwarranted that damage was or what it did to the system (the only system we've got).
If you want to criticise Wikileaks, you can criticise them for publishing unexpurgated documents - simply dumping vast amounts of intercepted cables on their site, without any editing or redaction. (They did promise to redact names where appropriate, but seem to have given up on such a mammoth task at some point). But Wikileaks is a conduit for information, not an editing house.

On the whole, the disclosures which the press have discovered among all the terabytes of data have overwhelmingly been a good thing. If some sections of the press decide to run with embarrassing personal comments about foreign leaders that's their own lookout, but the bruising of a few egos is a small price to pay for shedding light on the often shameful ways of our governments (and military).

The world owes a debt to WikiLeaks' whistleblowing | Amy Goodman | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
08-18-2012, 06:11 AM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by pickles Quote
I'm an Aussie, & I ain't "supporting" this guy one little bit.
Cheers, Pickles.
You say this as if from some higher position but who are you? Assange has stood before the world and made a difference (not just some pissant shooting his mouth off on a forum somewhere) and will probably pay the ultimate price for doing so. Perhaps you should enlighten us with the reasons for your lack of support instead of smug one-liners that offer no insight in future.
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