[deejjjaaaa]

The Germans kept excellent records of the people they killed in their camps. Name, gender, ethnicity, religion, etc was all perfectly recorded. You can see those records with your own eyes in Germany and Poland.

Those papers were not available by the time when "6 million" was spelled for the first time (did you actullay bother to find out when and by whom the number was created ?) because the camps (and the paperwork) were mostly (not all - but majority and the biggest) under Soviet control and nobody was counting that there then... how did they count jewish soldiers and officers of Red Army killed in WWII by the time when "6 millions" were spelled, are those counted in or not and if counted then when, Soviet numbers about KIA/wounded/MIA/etc for military and civilians were not available until many-many years after the war (and I am not talking about another fictional number of 25 millions that again was a PR creation from Soviet leadership) ? did they know how many jews were evacuated (or sent to prison camps after Poland was splitted between Germany and USSR) deep in xUSSR ? how many of those were natural deaths and how many killed ? how many of those who survived evacuated in xUSSR decided not to declare themselves jewish anymore ?

and then even by now Yad Vashem only has 4(.1 ?) millions of names (and that with all those "allegedly" perfect German records) and huge chunk of those names are not from the records actually but from "he says/she says" memories - so how many names do you seriously think people were able to count right after the war was over by the time "6 millions" were spelled for the first time ? again - check when the number was used for the first time and think.

and since then all efforts were to maintain the number by all means possible...

so do not mix the fact of the intentional killing of jews that happened w/ fictional number, invented to advance the cause to create the state of Israel, that actually might be less than 6 or more than 6 and not by few thousands... unless of course you feel that somehow 4 or 5 millions makes the case different ?

[Clavius]

Those papers were not available by the time when "6 million" was spelled for the first time (did you actullay bother to find out when and by whom the number was created ?) because the camps (and the paperwork) were mostly (not all - but majority and the biggest) under Soviet control and nobody was counting that there then... how did they count jewish soldiers and officers of Red Army killed in WWII by the time when "6 millions" were spelled, are those counted in or not and if counted then when, Soviet numbers about KIA/wounded/MIA/etc for military and civilians were not available until many-many years after the war (and I am not talking about another fictional number of 25 millions that again was a PR creation from Soviet leadership) ? did they know how many jews were evacuated (or sent to prison camps after Poland was splitted between Germany and USSR) deep in xUSSR ? how many of those were natural deaths and how many killed ? how many of those who survived evacuated in xUSSR decided not to declare themselves jewish anymore ?

and then even by now Yad Vashem only has 4(.1 ?) millions of names (and that with all those "allegedly" perfect German records) and huge chunk of those names are not from the records actually but from "he says/she says" memories - so how many names do you seriously think people were able to count right after the war was over by the time "6 millions" were spelled for the first time ? again - check when the number was used for the first time and think.

and since then all efforts were to maintain the number by all means possible...

so do not mix the fact of the intentional killing of jews that happened w/ fictional number, invented to advance the cause to create the state of Israel, that actually might be less than 6 or more than 6 and not by few thousands... unless of course you feel that somehow 4 or 5 millions makes the case different ?

Debating the reality of the holocaust is illegal in most civilised countries. And with all the evidence present, it is a shame that such laws are even neccesary. I've visited each and every remnant of the death camps accross Germany and Poland. Get some education and see the photografic evidence with the mountains of human remains for yourself. When you see all that with your own eyes, then it's easy to believe that an enormous amount of people suffered. You should be very ashamed for nitpicking about numbers in this context.

[hks_kansei]

How is all this relevant to the topic anyway?

The topic is regarding:
Julian Assange
Wikileaks
potential legal cases surrounding either, or both, of the above
Other potential topics such as USA or other national involvement in the above.


I'm not seeing how the acts of Germany during World War 2 are linked to any of this?

[Clavius]

How is all this relevant to the topic anyway?

The topic is regarding:
Julian Assange
Wikileaks
potential legal cases surrounding either, or both, of the above
Other potential topics such as USA or other national involvement in the above.


I'm not seeing how the acts of Germany during World War 2 are linked to any of this?

It's not relevant... But if you read the full thread you'll see that it was brought up at the very beginning of this thread.

[pickles]

Debating the reality of the holocaust is illegal in most civilised countries. And with all the evidence present, it is a shame that such laws are even neccesary. I've visited each and every remnant of the death camps accross Germany and Poland. Get some education and see the photografic evidence with the mountains of human remains for yourself. When you see all that with your own eyes, then it's easy to believe that an enormous amount of people suffered. You should be very ashamed for nitpicking about numbers in this context.

You are correct....ONE THOUSAND PERCENT.
Cheers, Pickles.

[hks_kansei]

It's not relevant... But if you read the full thread you'll see that it was brought up at the very beginning of this thread.

True, but it was also dismissed pretty early on as well as being irrelevant.

[wildweasel]

Does it actually matter how many Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and disabled people were killed? What remains is that these people were systematically murdered in death camps by the Nazis, and that the modern-day Germans are amongst the least likely people to do such a thing again. Of course it was a terrible thing that happened but I feel that it has been an albatross around the neck of Germany for too long now; it's not like no other country has had similar occurrences in the last hundred years or so. Britain invented the concentration camp, Russia had its pogroms, the US killed the native Americans and used slaves until quite recently, Australia tried to wipe out the Aboriginal culture, and even little Belgium killed millions in the Congo.