This my friends is the problem but what is the answer?

seacapt · 09-06-2012, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by ihasa

You need to read the report before jumping to easy answers, I think. It's easy to assume it's all because of regulation, but why is Germany higher than the US and miles higher than Australia? Are they 'less regulated'?

might it be because they still build product and that product is generally of high quality?

jeffkrol · 09-06-2012, 05:26 AM

Originally posted by seacapt

might it be because they still build product and that product is generally of high quality?

so it has nothing to do w/ regulations......

seacapt · 09-06-2012, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

No THIS is the problem...............

22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Systematically Wiped Out Of Existence In America - Business Insider

Special day here... I agree with you at least in part.
This trend to shift from manufacturing to a service based economy and obsession with a "One World" economy was in it's heyday back in the early 90's. Truely a shame that so many believed the lies.

jeffkrol · 09-06-2012, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by seacapt

Special day here... I agree with you at least in part.
This trend to shift from manufacturing to a service based economy and obsession with a "One World" economy was in it's heyday back in the early 90's. Truely a shame that so many believed the lies.

So what is your answer?? Cut everyones wages to $1/ hr????

I fail to see how that would benefit your business...............

Last edited by jeffkrol; 09-06-2012 at 06:01 AM.

GeneV · 09-06-2012, 06:21 AM

The countries which are culturally similar to us and ahead are a lot more like the President's view of the future than the GOP view. Switzerland has a health care system similar to Obamacare. However, perhaps more importantly, all of these countries have free education through university level or trade school training. Employers have access to well-trained workers to make higher level products, and they aren't in the business of providing health care to employees.

reeftool · 09-06-2012, 07:57 AM

Once upon a time, companies made products in this country. They made money selling their products and people made money building them and went out and spent that money buying more products. Then one day, the company owners all got together and decided they could make more money if somebody else made their products and they just sold them. It worked for a while but soon, the people who used to make the products didn't have money to buy anymore. Soon, the companies had nobody to buy their products any more.

There is no happy ending.

seacapt · 09-06-2012, 08:10 AM

If each and every one of us went to the grocery store took a few seconds to read the labels and chose the domestically produced apple juice , garlic powder , vegetable oil etc. it would be a step in the right direction.

JohnInIndy · 09-06-2012, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by seacapt

US Slips Down Global Competitiveness Ranking - Yahoo! Finance
Honest question , how do we revive domestic production , economic confidence and beneficial trade policies?

For a start get rid of the unions.

Sure it might be nice to be able to go and buy solely American products. But in this climate it's the price that matters. Look at the success of dollar stores and Harbor Freight.

Why buy McCormick spices when a "generic" is cheaper and in most cases as good or better?

JohnInIndy · 09-06-2012, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by reeftool

Once upon a time, companies made products in this country. They made money selling their products and people made money building them and went out and spent that money buying more products. Then one day, the company owners all got together and decided they could make more money if somebody else made their products and they just sold them. It worked for a while but soon, the people who used to make the products didn't have money to buy anymore. Soon, the companies had nobody to buy their products any more.

There is no happy ending.

Yeah, the unions had nothing to do with getting wages up higher than where they should be so the company could make a decent profit eh? The unions didn't negotiate benefits packages that crippled many companies now did they? No. It's all the companies fault.

seacapt · 09-06-2012, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by GeneV

However, perhaps more importantly, all of these countries have free education through university level or trade school training. .

Thats not exactly true. In Switzerland for example there is a very modest tuition at the universities @ $1,100.00 per year but room / board are not provided.
Another aspect of most national education systems to consider is that acceptance to higher educational institutions is based allmost solely on tested or demonstrated aptitude so if in the early years a student shows aptitude for ditch digging he had better develope a Zen oneness with his shovel.

jeffkrol · 09-06-2012, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by seacapt

Thats not exactly true. In Switzerland for example there is a very modest tuition at the universities @ $1,100.00 per year but room / board are not provided.
Another aspect of most national education systems to consider is that acceptance to higher educational institutions is based allmost solely on tested or demonstrated aptitude so if in the early years a student shows aptitude for ditch digging he had better develope a Zen oneness with his shovel.

Yep better to choose based on parental lineage.. like here..

On a more factual note.. don't they have apprenticeship programs. A 3 tier approach...
opps can we just say "it's complicated"..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Switzerland

seacapt · 09-06-2012, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by JohnInIndy

Why buy McCormick spices when a "generic" is cheaper and in most cases as good or better?

Hey Johnn ,next time you go to the store try what I suggested - read the labels. There are many domestically produced name brand and generic items of comparable quality and price. Example Food Lion brand garlic powder 5.5 oz - $1.95 imported from China ( damn can you imagine a trans oceanic frieghter full of garlic?) Spice Supreme garlic powder 6 oz. -$1.00 product of USA.
Like I said , a small step in the right direction but if everyone did it those pennies add up.
I often wonder how many moms have no idea that the apple juice their children drink by the gallon may be imported from S.America or Asia and contain pesticides not permitted in the US.

JohnInIndy · 09-06-2012, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by seacapt

Hey John ,next time you go to the store try what I suggested - read the labels. There are many domestically produced name brand and generic items of comparable quality and price. Example Food Lion brand garlic powder 5.5 oz - $1.95 imported from China ( damn can you imagine a trans oceanic frieghter full of garlic?) Spice Supreme garlic powder 6 oz. -$1.00

Then country of origin isn't a factor is it? You are still buying the cheaper product.

reeftool · 09-06-2012, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by JohnInIndy

Yeah, the unions had nothing to do with getting wages up higher than where they should be so the company could make a decent profit eh? The unions didn't negotiate benefits packages that crippled many companies now did they? No. It's all the companies fault.

Blame can be spread around but the biggest reason for the economic decline in the US is that we have 350 million people here that need stuff every day and somebody else is building it. We can only deliver pizzas to each other for so long.

An example we had locally here was a clothing company called CB Sports. They made high end ski parkas, jackets and other outerwear. The stuff sold in shops starting at around $300 and up. Employees working there made a couple of bucks higher than minimum wage. Their manufacturing facilities was built with tax breaks and grant money. The products were selling like hotcakes in the late 80's and 90's. Yet, they closed down production and farmed out production to overseas labor claiming they couldn't make a profit despite the high end selling prices. The only happy ending here is that some executives went to jail. This has happened all over the country for decades and companies have got away with it. Nike can't build a $200 sneaker in the US? Any American should be ashamed of himself for buying them. The same holds true for Apple computers. I could go one and on.

seacapt · 09-06-2012, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

On a more factual note.. don't they have apprenticeship programs. A 3 tier approach...
opps can we just say "it's complicated"..

Education in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah it is a bit more complicated than that Wiki Graph but thanks for posting it , it made me realize I need a new reading glass perscription.
STRUCTURE OF EDUCATION SYSTEM IN SWITZERLAND

09-06-2012, 08:45 AM	#27
seacapt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina , USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,271 Original Poster	Originally posted by JohnInIndy Why buy McCormick spices when a "generic" is cheaper and in most cases as good or better? Hey Johnn ,next time you go to the store try what I suggested - read the labels. There are many domestically produced name brand and generic items of comparable quality and price. Example Food Lion brand garlic powder 5.5 oz - $1.95 imported from China ( damn can you imagine a trans oceanic frieghter full of garlic?) Spice Supreme garlic powder 6 oz. -$1.00 product of USA. Like I said , a small step in the right direction but if everyone did it those pennies add up. I often wonder how many moms have no idea that the apple juice their children drink by the gallon may be imported from S.America or Asia and contain pesticides not permitted in the US. Last edited by seacapt; 09-06-2012 at 08:51 AM.

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09-06-2012, 05:21 AM	#16
seacapt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina , USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,271 Original Poster	Originally posted by ihasa You need to read the report before jumping to easy answers, I think. It's easy to assume it's all because of regulation, but why is Germany higher than the US and miles higher than Australia? Are they 'less regulated'? might it be because they still build product and that product is generally of high quality?

09-06-2012, 05:26 AM	#17
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by seacapt might it be because they still build product and that product is generally of high quality? so it has nothing to do w/ regulations......

09-06-2012, 05:35 AM	#18
seacapt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina , USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,271 Original Poster	Originally posted by jeffkrol No THIS is the problem............... 22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Systematically Wiped Out Of Existence In America - Business Insider Special day here... I agree with you at least in part. This trend to shift from manufacturing to a service based economy and obsession with a "One World" economy was in it's heyday back in the early 90's. Truely a shame that so many believed the lies.

09-06-2012, 05:37 AM	#19
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by seacapt Special day here... I agree with you at least in part. This trend to shift from manufacturing to a service based economy and obsession with a "One World" economy was in it's heyday back in the early 90's. Truely a shame that so many believed the lies. So what is your answer?? Cut everyones wages to $1/ hr???? I fail to see how that would benefit your business............... Last edited by jeffkrol; 09-06-2012 at 06:01 AM.

09-06-2012, 06:21 AM	#20
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	The countries which are culturally similar to us and ahead are a lot more like the President's view of the future than the GOP view. Switzerland has a health care system similar to Obamacare. However, perhaps more importantly, all of these countries have free education through university level or trade school training. Employers have access to well-trained workers to make higher level products, and they aren't in the business of providing health care to employees.

09-06-2012, 07:57 AM	#21
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,553	Once upon a time, companies made products in this country. They made money selling their products and people made money building them and went out and spent that money buying more products. Then one day, the company owners all got together and decided they could make more money if somebody else made their products and they just sold them. It worked for a while but soon, the people who used to make the products didn't have money to buy anymore. Soon, the companies had nobody to buy their products any more. There is no happy ending.

09-06-2012, 08:10 AM	#22
seacapt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina , USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,271 Original Poster	If each and every one of us went to the grocery store took a few seconds to read the labels and chose the domestically produced apple juice , garlic powder , vegetable oil etc. it would be a step in the right direction.

09-06-2012, 08:25 AM	#23
JohnInIndy Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 794	Originally posted by seacapt US Slips Down Global Competitiveness Ranking - Yahoo! Finance Honest question , how do we revive domestic production , economic confidence and beneficial trade policies? For a start get rid of the unions. Sure it might be nice to be able to go and buy solely American products. But in this climate it's the price that matters. Look at the success of dollar stores and Harbor Freight. Why buy McCormick spices when a "generic" is cheaper and in most cases as good or better?

09-06-2012, 08:31 AM	#24
JohnInIndy Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 794	Originally posted by reeftool Once upon a time, companies made products in this country. They made money selling their products and people made money building them and went out and spent that money buying more products. Then one day, the company owners all got together and decided they could make more money if somebody else made their products and they just sold them. It worked for a while but soon, the people who used to make the products didn't have money to buy anymore. Soon, the companies had nobody to buy their products any more. There is no happy ending. Yeah, the unions had nothing to do with getting wages up higher than where they should be so the company could make a decent profit eh? The unions didn't negotiate benefits packages that crippled many companies now did they? No. It's all the companies fault.

09-06-2012, 08:32 AM	#25
seacapt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina , USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,271 Original Poster	Originally posted by GeneV However, perhaps more importantly, all of these countries have free education through university level or trade school training. . Thats not exactly true. In Switzerland for example there is a very modest tuition at the universities @ $1,100.00 per year but room / board are not provided. Another aspect of most national education systems to consider is that acceptance to higher educational institutions is based allmost solely on tested or demonstrated aptitude so if in the early years a student shows aptitude for ditch digging he had better develope a Zen oneness with his shovel.

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09-06-2012, 08:42 AM	#26
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by seacapt Thats not exactly true. In Switzerland for example there is a very modest tuition at the universities @ $1,100.00 per year but room / board are not provided. Another aspect of most national education systems to consider is that acceptance to higher educational institutions is based allmost solely on tested or demonstrated aptitude so if in the early years a student shows aptitude for ditch digging he had better develope a Zen oneness with his shovel. Yep better to choose based on parental lineage.. like here.. On a more factual note.. don't they have apprenticeship programs. A 3 tier approach... opps can we just say "it's complicated".. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Switzerland

09-06-2012, 08:47 AM	#28
JohnInIndy Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 794	Originally posted by seacapt Hey John ,next time you go to the store try what I suggested - read the labels. There are many domestically produced name brand and generic items of comparable quality and price. Example Food Lion brand garlic powder 5.5 oz - $1.95 imported from China ( damn can you imagine a trans oceanic frieghter full of garlic?) Spice Supreme garlic powder 6 oz. -$1.00 Then country of origin isn't a factor is it? You are still buying the cheaper product.

09-06-2012, 08:56 AM	#29
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,553	Originally posted by JohnInIndy Yeah, the unions had nothing to do with getting wages up higher than where they should be so the company could make a decent profit eh? The unions didn't negotiate benefits packages that crippled many companies now did they? No. It's all the companies fault. Blame can be spread around but the biggest reason for the economic decline in the US is that we have 350 million people here that need stuff every day and somebody else is building it. We can only deliver pizzas to each other for so long. An example we had locally here was a clothing company called CB Sports. They made high end ski parkas, jackets and other outerwear. The stuff sold in shops starting at around $300 and up. Employees working there made a couple of bucks higher than minimum wage. Their manufacturing facilities was built with tax breaks and grant money. The products were selling like hotcakes in the late 80's and 90's. Yet, they closed down production and farmed out production to overseas labor claiming they couldn't make a profit despite the high end selling prices. The only happy ending here is that some executives went to jail. This has happened all over the country for decades and companies have got away with it. Nike can't build a $200 sneaker in the US? Any American should be ashamed of himself for buying them. The same holds true for Apple computers. I could go one and on.

09-06-2012, 08:56 AM	#30
seacapt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina , USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,271 Original Poster	Originally posted by jeffkrol On a more factual note.. don't they have apprenticeship programs. A 3 tier approach... opps can we just say "it's complicated".. Education in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Yeah it is a bit more complicated than that Wiki Graph but thanks for posting it , it made me realize I need a new reading glass perscription. STRUCTURE OF EDUCATION SYSTEM IN SWITZERLAND