[seacapt]

OK I'm done with this for now , Romney bash all you want.
I'll leave you with a few of my thoughts.
-Romney is not the Comander in Chief nor the criminal , Those would be the Pres. Obama and the terrorists.
-I find it offensive that so many US citizens are more concerned about words and a politiically incorrect movie than acts of terrorism against the US and the safety of our citizens abroad.
-If the governments of Libya , Egypt and Yemen were really so opposed to the actions of their people , they would have had presonel stationed outside the embassies keeping protesters off the walls. Instead they sent security forces after the damage was done.
- At the very second a protestor breaches the perimiter of an embassy his status changes to terrorist.
-There should have been immediate fortification of all US embassies in the area, fleet movememnt doesn't help those currently on the ground.
- I'd like to know who gave the order to only fire warning shots as terrorists came over the wall in Yemen where the embassy was supposedly well protected and what happened to those who came over the wall.At least current reports indicated that there were no casualties in this incident.
- If we are not going to protect our embassies we should shut them down and cut off all aid to these countries.

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Last edited by seacapt; 09-14-2012 at 10:49 PM.

[les3547]

Of course, we shouldn't forget . . .

The Christian Science Monitor:

Blasphemy riots: less about theology, more about power plays

The mobs that killed the US ambassador to Libya and assaulted the US Embassy in Egypt may have been provoked by a blasphemous portrayal of the prophet Muhammad, but Muslim scholars and analysts alike say the attacks have little justification in Islamic theology. Instead, they reflect societies roiled by power struggles and competing ideologies – in which Muslims are used as pawns for political gain.

“The punishment for blasphemy and even the definition for blasphemy is not in the Quran. There are some hadiths that address it, but it’s ambiguous,” says Nina Shea, director of the Hudson Institute’s Center for Religious Freedom in Washingon. “So it’s very vague and … it’s manipulated by those who want to raise a mob and wield power within a society.”

She cites other recent examples of blasphemous incidents being exploited for political purposes, including the protests in Afghanistan and Pakistan over Florida pastor Terry Jones burning the Quran, fanned by the Taliban, and a Danish newspaper’s denigrating cartoons of the prophet Muhammad, exploited by Arab governments upset with the Bush administration’s push for democracy in the Middle East.

[les3547]

-I find it offensive that so many US citizens are more concerned about words and a politiically incorrect movie than acts of terrorism against the US and the safety of our citizens abroad.

Nonsense. They are simply two different conversations. We can criticize Romney's sleezeball tactics without losing sight of the problems in the Middle East.

[GeneV]

This is also important because it goes not just to Romney's honesty as a candidate, but to his ability to do the job. Up to this point, I would have simply said the President was my choice between two candidates who could handle the job. This incident was the point at which I have come to believe he is not competent to be President. His judgment and diplomacy skills are not up to the task.

[gokenin]

This is also important because it goes not just to Romney's honesty as a candidate, but to his ability to do the job. Up to this point, I would have simply said the President was my choice between two candidates who could handle the job. This incident was the point at which I have come to believe he is not competent to be President. His judgment and diplomacy skills are not up to the task.

Oh please give me a break this entire section with yourself included Gene have been rabid anti- republican for so long that this statement about giving both candidates a honest hearing is outright laughable.

[les3547]

This is also important because it goes not just to Romney's honesty as a candidate, but to his ability to do the job. Up to this point, I would have simply said the President was my choice between two candidates who could handle the job. This incident was the point at which I have come to believe he is not competent to be President. His judgment and diplomacy skills are not up to the task.

I wonder how many of those still considering voting for Romney (Seacapt are you listening?) have carefully considered why Romney incessantly lies. When a person applies for a job, if he has plenty to offer he simply communicates what is true. But if he is lacking, then he has to make up stuff to fill all the gaps in ability and competency.

And then we have to ask, if a person has to lie so much to make himself seem qualified, why is he even applying for the job? Doesn't some part of him know he will be in over his head? Besides hubris (or Dunning-Kruger delusions) the only other answer I can come up with is that Romney merely wants the title, he wants a place in history as the 44th President, but like Palin, neither wants to do the work nor is capable of doing it.

The Steve Benen of the Political Animal Blog in the Washington Monthly started keeping track of Romney lies, here's a few of the list of 533 so far (links to each week's list can be found 1/4 down the page here):

Mitt Romney tells 533 lies in 30 weeks, Steve Benen documents them

After catching Mitt Romney repeating another obvious falsehood, Greg Sargent noted this afternoon, “I know this risks getting boring and predictable, but we really should document them all.”

That’s a good idea. In fact, I’m thinking about starting a new feature for Friday afternoons, highlighting the Republican frontrunner’s most offensive falsehoods from the previous week. I’m thinking about making it a Top 5 list, but I suppose some weeks, it might be a Top 10 list.

Let’s take a look at this week’s contenders.1. Romney campaigning in Iowa on Sunday: “[W]hen the president went around at the beginning of his term and apologized for America around the world, it made us just heartsick.”

He’s lying; the president never apologized for America. Romney knows this, but he keeps making the claim anyway.

2. Romney on Fox News on Tuesday: “I’ve still got the same positions on the issues I had four years ago. My record as governor and my positions are pretty darn conservative.”

That’s not even close to being true.

3. Romney talking about his jobs record on Fox News on Tuesday: “[At Bain Capital], we helped create over 100,000 new jobs.”

Actually, no, he didn’t.

4. Romney in New Hampshire on Wednesday said President Obama seeks “a ‘European-style welfare state’ to redistribute wealth and create ‘equal outcomes’ regardless of individual effort and success.”

This isn’t just a lie, it’s also “Glenn Beck-level insane.”

5. Romney in a new campaign ad airing in South Carolina: “The National Labor Relations Board, now stacked with union stooges selected by the president, says to a free enterprise like Boeing, ‘You can’t build a factory in South Carolina, because South Carolina is a right-to-work state.’ That is simply un-American. It’s political payback of the worst kind.”

Romney has said this before, and he’s been told every time, he’s lying.

Week 2:

1. Romney told voters in New Hampshire, “I know what it’s like to worry whether you’re gonna get fired. There were a couple of times I wondered whether I was going to get a pink slip.”

That’s not true.

2. Romney argued in a debate, “[W]hat unfortunately happens is with all the multiplicity of federal programs, you have massive overhead, with government bureaucrats in Washington administering all these programs, very little of the money that’s actually needed by those that really need help, those that can’t care for themselves, actually reaches them.”

This is the exact opposite of the truth.

3. After winning the New Hampshire primary, Romney said of the president, “He lost our AAA credit rating.”

In reality, it was congressional Republicans who were responsible for the downgrade.

4. In the same speech, Romney said of Obama, “He apologizes for America”

Romney’s still lying.

5. Romney told a debate audience why he didn’t seek re-election as governor: “That would be about me. I was tryin’ to help get the state in best shape as I possibly could. Left the world of politics, went back into business.”

He’s lying — Romney didn’t re-enter the private sector after leaving the governor’s office; he transitioned to a presidential campaign.

6. Romney talked about savings he’d find in the budget: “[T]he number one to cut is Obamacare. That saves $95 billion a year.”

Actually, that’s backwards. Repealing the Affordable Care Act would cost the nation billions and increase the deficit.

7. Romney argued that the Dodd-Frank financial regulatory bill “makes it harder for community banks to make loans.”

No, it doesn’t.

8. Romney argued during a debate, “[I]n the business I had, we invested in over 100 different businesses and net-net, taking out the ones where we lost jobs and those that we added, those businesses have now added over 100,000 jobs.

That’s so blatantly untrue, the Romney campaign has started moving the goal posts.

9. After being pressed on ads being run by his Super PAC, Romney said, “With regards to their ads, I haven’t seen ‘em.”

Romney then proceeded to recite the attacks in the ad, almost verbatim, making clear he’d both seen and memorized the ad.

10. Campaigning in New Hampshire, Romney insisted “European-style welfare” countries end up with a system that “creates poverty.”

Week 3:

1. “The president is planning on cutting $1 trillion out of military spending.”

That’s a Romney favorite, but it’s not at all accurate.

2. “This president has opened up no new markets for American goods around the world in his three years, even as European nations and China have opened up 44.”

That’s not even close to being true.

3. “We’ve got a president in office three years, and he does not have a jobs plan yet. I’ve got one out there already and I’m not even president, yet.”

This one actually includes multiple lies.

4. “Our navy is smaller than it’s been since 1917.”

That’s wildly misleading and intended to deceive.

5. “[D]on’t forget who it was that cut Medicare by $500 billion. And that was President Obama, to pay for Obamacare.”

As Romney almost certainly knows, that’s just not true.

6. “I went off on my own. I didn’t inherit money from my parents.”

Yes, actually, he did.

7. “While we’ve got $15 trillion of debt, [the president] said, ‘Look, I’m going to put another $1 trillion of debt for Obamacare.’”

That’s demonstrably ridiculous. The Affordable Care Act doesn’t add to the debt, it cuts the debt by hundreds of billions of dollars.

8. “I stood as a pro-life governor and that’s why the Massachusetts Pro-Life Family Association supported my record as governor, endorsed my record as governor.”

Actually, Romney was a pro-choice governor until late in his term (right around the time he decided he’s run for president as a culture warrior), and when he was endorsed by the Massachusetts Pro-Life Family Association, Romney forcefully rejected their support.

9. “I’m concerned about the poor in this country. We have to make sure the safety net is strong and able to help those who can’t help themselves. I’m not terribly worried about the very wealthiest in our society; they’re doing just fine.”

In reality, Romney wants to slash spending on programs that benefit the poor, shred the safety net, and give the very wealthiest in our society another generous tax cut.

10. Romney described himself as “someone who’s lived in the real streets of America.”

Week 4:

1. Romney claimed President Obama "went before the United Nations" and "said nothing about thousands of rockets being rained in on Israel from the Gaza Strip."

True or false? The claim isn't even close to being right.

2. Romney said Democrats "passed Dodd-Frank," which "has made it almost impossible for community banks."

True or false? He's has said this before, and it's still completely untrue.

3. Romney continues to insist, "Our Navy is now smaller than any time since 1917."

True or false? It's one of his favorite talking points, but it's wildly misleading.

4. Romney boasted, "I did not inherit what my wife and I have, nor did she. What I was able to build, I built the old-fashioned way, by earning it, by working hard."

True or false? In reality, he inherited quite a bit from his wealthy, powerful parents.

5. Attacking Newt Gingrich, Romney said of House Republicans, "They also took a vote, and 88 percent of Republicans voted to reprimand the speaker, and he did resign in disgrace after that."

True or false? That's not really what happened.

6. Romney said, "We have $15 trillion of debt. We're headed to a Greece- type collapse, and he adds another trillion [dollars] on top for Obamacare and for his stimulus plan that didn't create private-sector jobs."

True or false? Our debt problem has no resemblance to Greece's; the Affordable Care Act reduces the debt; and the stimulus added millions of private-sector jobs.

7. Describing his state-based health-care law, Romney said, "At the time we crafted it, I was asked time and again, 'Is this something that you would have the federal government do?' I said absolutely not. I do not support a federal mandate."

True or false? Reality shows the exact opposite is true.

8. Going after Obama, Romney said, "[W]e shouldn't forget that for two years, this President had a Congress that could do everything he wanted."

True or false? Republicans love this, but it's plainly false.

9. Again commenting on Obama's record, Romney argued, "If you want to get the economy going, lower corporate tax rates. He's raised them."

True or false? It's one of the more transparent lies Romney has told.

10. Asked about his investments in Freddie Mac, Romney told Fox News, "My investments, of course, are managed not by me. For the last 10 years they've been guided and managed by a trustee, they're in a blind trust. And the trustee invested in mutual funds and so forth and apparently one of the funds had Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac bonds."

True or false? He's lying again.

11. Romney argued, "I didn't get involved in politics early in my life," adding he didn't "politically involved" until after he ran the 2002 Olympics.

True or false? Romney ran for the U.S. Senate in 1994. He might remember spending $7 million of his own money on the race.

12. Asked to explain his 1992 vote in a Democratic primary, Romney said, "I've never voted for a Democrat when there was a Republican on the ballot."

True or false? That's not only untrue, it's a story Romney has changed literally five times.

13. After winning the Florida primary, Romney argued, "On one of the most personal matters of our lives, our health care, President Obama would turn decision making over to government bureaucrats."

True or false? Even for Romney, this is kind of dishonesty is just brazen.

14. After receiving Donald Trump's endorsement yesterday, Romney, commenting on President Obama and the economy, said, "He's frequently telling us that he did not cause the recession, and that's true. But he made it worse."

. . . . and hundreds more

[les3547]

Oh please give me a break this entire section with yourself included Gene have been rabid anti- republican for so long that this statement about giving both candidates a honest hearing is outright laughable.

Maybe some here have (one in particular), but many of us are simply reacting to people like Palin, Bachman, and other idiots who seem to have taken over the Republican party. It isn't against moderate Republicans or anyone working to make things better for everyone.

[Nesster]

Quite apart from political affiliations, We the People do respond to the appearance of command in a potential President. The differing responses of McCain and Obama to the financial crisis I believe were the final nails in McCain's coffin, for example. And looking back, e.g. the Nixon landslide over McGovern was very much due to McGoverns organizational ineptitude.

Romney did himself no favor by coming out strong the way he did, when he did.

[les3547]

I have to add that at least for me, and I believe this is true for other moderates here, that what the Republican party has been doing for the last four years, and especially how for right it has moved in the last two years, is nothing like the Republican party of the past. It is the extremism that's being objected to. If Democrats were doing it, or something extremist on the far left, I'd be just as critical.

Nothing is more disgusting to me than how Republicans have sabotaged our nation's recovery, and now are trying to get reelected by blaming it on the President. The antics described below should be outraging all Americans, no matter which party:

The Real Story Of The 110th Congress: The Right-Wing Block-And-Blame Game

Senate Obstruction Leader


As far back as January 2007, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell made it clear that he would assume the role of Senate Obstruction Leader by insisting on a 60-vote supermajority, rather than a simple 50-vote majority, for getting bills through the Senate.

He claims “that’s the ordinary procedure.” But he’s wrong, and we have the proof. The reality is, his abuse of Senate procedures to block the majority will on legislation is unprecedented. McConnell and Senate Republicans like the filibuster now, but they didn’t when Democrats used it more sparingly in the 109th Congress against President Bush’s most extreme judicial nominees.



As this chart shows, never have so many filibusters been threatened as in the first session of the 110th Congress. In just the first year, Republicans filibustered more legislation, and required more cloture votes to break those filibusters, than in any Congress in recent history. By the time this term ends, Congress could well more than double the number of cloture votes of previous Congresses — including the ones that Republicans controlled and complained of Democratic 'obstruction.'
This is the result of a deliberate effort by the Republican minority to undercut the will of the majority of the American public, expressed when voters placed a Democratic majority in control of both houses of Congress. The filibuster, a procedure unique to the Senate to block an up-or-down vote on legislation unless a 60-vote supermajority agrees to proceed, has been historically used by both parties. But it has never been used as routinely as it has been by Republicans since January 2007.

[Nesster]

Here is a good summary / time line of what happened and who said what when:
Mitt Romney and the "Libya Surprise": How it Unfolded : The New Yorker

worth reading

[GeneV]

Oh please give me a break this entire section with yourself included Gene have been rabid anti- republican for so long that this statement about giving both candidates a honest hearing is outright laughable.

It is nice to see you laughing, but I can't take credit. Please re-read the post to which you are responding and tell me where I made the "statement" you found so laughable.

Les writes a lot of things I could write, and he is correct that in the larger scheme of things, both of us would probably be called "moderate" rather than "rabid."

This is not the Republican Party of which I was a member, and for whose candidates I volunteered before I was even old enough to vote. I tried to go back one last time in 2000 to support a presidential candidate who seemed to change the direction of that party, but he was also buried by lies. The party then changed him. So, no, I am not a fan of the party as it exists now.

[GeneV]

Quite apart from political affiliations, We the People do respond to the appearance of command in a potential President. The differing responses of McCain and Obama to the financial crisis I believe were the final nails in McCain's coffin, for example. And looking back, e.g. the Nixon landslide over McGovern was very much due to McGoverns organizational ineptitude.

Romney did himself no favor by coming out strong the way he did, when he did.

In this situation, it is the difference between possibly losing, and getting a Red Card.

[Medium FormatPro]

I respect your opinion, but I can't quite agree. Bad behavior may invite the same, but I don't think we deserved 9/11 or any attacks because that would say somehow violence against innocents is justified. If it is wrong for us to do it to others, it is wrong for others to do it to us.

I would also say that besides things the US has done wrong, it has also done good things. This country isn't just populated by one type of person. There are a great many people who want peace, who have worked and do work for equality, who've stood up for humanitarian principles. It was Americans who owned slaves but it was Americans who fought against slavery too. There were the Wall Street scammers, but there were Wall Street occupiers as well.

One also has to try to place themselves into the shoes of another. Imagine what it must be like to live in the many places such as Iraq. The united states of america still occupies Iraq and kills people there on a literal daily basis. So I don't imagine that america has all too many friends lately - asa a matter of fact if I had to base it on percentages - I'd clearly state that america has more enemies than it has friends - and also even go so far as to state america has more enemies now that it has ever had.

The government of america and a large portion of it's population seem to want to judge then conquer. When america should be spending that majority war budget on it's own countries internal issues.

...And generally passing a reference about 9/11 and the very likely probability that it will in fact happen again. A good portion of americas true enemies also happen to notice ameica's weaknesses - especially relating to security. So how has it really changed since 9/11 to a determines and financed enemy - not much. Very little civil airport security, ability to drive any vehicle onto even a commerical airport runway (Philadelphia), and even gain access to Lawrence Livermore for hours at a time - unchallenged.

Given all of that - and how it adds up - america might be losing time waiting for the next attack, and then still wonder why

[jeffkrol]

I thought we were already at "war" (on terrorism)

Opinion: Gingrich opinion: Act of war, not 'senseless violence' - Newt Gingrich - POLITICO.com

The left is desperate to deal with each new incident as though it is occurring in isolation.

err.. NO, it seems like you want this in isolation.. for ten years we have been killing the bad guys.. for ten years they have been killing us..
This "extension of that war" really doesn't "change things"......

Because of congressionally-imposed limitations and administrative and bureaucratic timidity, the fact is we know remarkably little about our enemies.
We should expect to be surprised because our elites cling to a fiction of “peace” while our enemies are waging war.

Well at least you blame congress a little..........

The OIC has a long- term campaign to manipulate the U.S. government into defining any criticism or improper reference to Islam as unacceptable.
No one should be confused by this. As Andy McCarthy wrote yesterday, the Islamist definition of heresy would destroy American free speech.

good thing we are not one of them there countries.. You know in business failure to recognize a cultural difference is a recipe for disaster to a deal..........

The Obama administration is waging war on the Catholic Church while appeasing the most extreme elements of Islam.
This is the bizarre situation we now find ourselves in.

I agree but not in the way you might expect Newter..........

[ihasa]

Quite graphic and disturbing pictures are being circulated with lurid stories about Chris Stevens being dragged through the streets of Benghazi like Ghadaffi (and worse).

But it's hard to see whether he was being dragged about, or helped? It seems that civilian Libyans did try to help him get to hospital, and it's looking like the actual attack on the Embassy was unconnected to, but taking advantage of, the protests.

Stevens became separated from his staff while trying to escape to the roof and was ultimately overcome by smoke inhalation. Stevens was brought by local civilians to the Benghazi Medical Centre in a state of cardiac arrest. Medical personnel tried to resuscitate him, but he was pronounced dead around 2:00 am local time.