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Iranian General Threatens Israel, U.S. if Iran's Nuclear Program Targeted - Yahoo! News

Already posted on another thread, but here as a topic starter.

Already past the middle of September; that some type of mass military strike or all out war with Iran is imminent by the end of this year - probably initiated by Israel and also probably backed by america.

So this could come at many levels.

Something as simple as a series or large scale air strikes. Noting that Israel does not have any heavy bombers... They could possibly borrow a few of ours - either directly of indirectly. Either way - it would be quite impossible to get all of the targets. Iran also has quite the capable air defense network - and even plane losses would be expected. At best any level or airstrike would only guarantee just above fifty percent of needed pargets. Iran has already heavily dug in an prepared just for this type of incident in advance. But it would in fact give the Iran nuclear program a type of very limited delay.

Second option; mass military stike - even crossing land borders by armored vehicles and all. Possibility - slim. If this were to happen Iran would immediately target miliary, civilian, and even commerical traffic within it's reach.

Third option (having already been used is also always on the table); subversive strike efforts.

Last option; try to wait it all out. Washington really likes this option. Try to imagine how the elections play out if america gets involved in this one before the election. Also the massive damage to the american economy.

america is already seriously weighing the need that there may be for a draft - no joke. This may very well be a needed option by ANY political party if Iran escalates. Also imagine - gasoline prices going up at least one dollar, perhaps two - (at a minimum) overnight. Iran has alreadty indicated it willingness to target tankers. Damage to the american economy in this one would be extensive to say the least.

Now what?? It's just a waiting game that is already out of control. Perhaps greater minds will prevail.

Still there's the odds... Odds of Israel attacking Iran by the end of this year 40%, within two years 80++%. Odds america will get directly involved - better than average.

[hcarvalhoalves]

The top commander of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard warned on Sunday that if Israel decides to take military action against Iran’s nuclear program, his country's missiles will ensure “nothing will remain” of the Jewish state, the Associated Press reports.

If it were a real threat, Iran would have acted already. In a war you try to be the first mover. Notice the general says they would react to any preemptive attack from Israel. They are negotiating their position. This is what they nuclear program is after all, for bargain power.

[magkelly]

If we go to freaking war with Iran too I'm going to get on a plane and ask for political asylum over in Europe or the UK somewhere. Elderly parents or no elderly parents I'm so sick of this SHIZ I'm not too sure I wouldn't give up my citizenship if it came to it. We cannot just go to war with anyone who ticks us off. We can't afford it, and I'm not paying for it, period. The economy here is shot to heck already. The only way they could pay for it is to levy some ridiculous taxers we can ill afford.

Israel can fight it's own darn war if it and/or Iran insists upon going there. I'm sorry, but enough. They need to deal with it themselves. Find a way to co-exist, that's just IT. I'm hoping Iran is just posturing but if they're dumb enough to go there than it's Israel's job to defend themselves. I don't care if we are allies. This crap is never ending and I don't think any treaty should cover that kind of stupidity.

Iran actually has the right, IMHO, to develop what they want. That's an internal matter. The fact that they are talking like idiots about dropping bombs isn't important. Them having bombs that's not for us to decide. No one got to decide if we should have them after all. If they actually follow through with their threats then Israel does have the right to fight back but so long as they are just posturing and not actually aiming missiles at us this is not our war. It may end up being Israel's war but it's not ours not unless they come directly after us.

If they do, well goodness help them because with the current mood of the nation they won't need a draft. There are a lot of people here who are just pissed off in general and who wouldn't mind a good legitimate fight and an outright attack on us tends to mobilize us as a nation in a way that nothing else does. A war can be a bad thing when no one really wants it or supports it. But a war that everyone is into? That's another matter entirely. Look at what happened with WW2, how many men signed up voluntarily and how many people went to work because of it.

I don't think it will come to that though. I think Iran likes to talk big, that's all.

[Jasvox]

If we go to freaking war with Iran too I'm going to get on a plane and ask for political asylum over in Europe or the UK somewhere. l.

Trust me, you are much better off elsewhere at the moment unless you speak the language fluently and have very specific and sought after work experience. Besides, you dont think WW3 will be simply limited to the middle east and the shores of the USA do you?

Jason

[ihasa]

I don't think it will come to that though. I think Iran likes to talk big, that's all.

I think you're right, but when Iran talks big, Israel might be tempted to act big, and then Iran would certainly respond. Scary shit

BTW if you're thinking of emigrating if things go down, I've narrowed my choices down to New Zealand or the NW of Australia (well away from the major cities).

[magkelly]

My problem is I'm intelligent but not physically capable of doing a whole lot. I'm an artist type, and doing nothing special, so I'm not really eligible for visas of that sort. I'm not high science, medically or high tech oriented, skilled in the types of jobs they value. I don't have 150K to go somewhere and start a new business which is the other thing they like.

Sucks being a normal Jane sometimes, laugh. About the only way I'm ever going to be able to move overseas is to find some guy dumb enough to ask me and get married and I'd really rather not. I've seen enough of other people's marriages to realize it's just not for me that state.

I've always found it highly ironic how much harder it is for us to emigrate than it is the reverse. People here bitch up a blue streak about how poor people are so disadvantaged by not their being able to come here as they like and stay regardless of the law but when you look at it the reality of the situation is almost anyone can come here and get to stay whatever the law says. The reverse is just nearly impossible.

America already makes it a thousand times easier to immigrate than any place else in the world and any attempt to stave that immigration off always ends up with people arguing. As much as I dig the Statue of Liberty I hate those darned tablets and that poem sometimes. I hate the fact that so many people across the globe see this as the land of opportunity and can come here when I can't even cross an ocean and attempt to live somewhere else without giving up my freedom to do it. (Unless I'm rich or willing to marry that is....)

[ihasa]

Mags, it is not easy to immigrate to the USA! Why do people want to go there? Because it projects itself as the best country in the world, and in a lot of ways, it is.

If WW3 was imminent (LOL) I would happily go outside the law and illegally get myself out of harms way by whatever means possible, meaning breaking the terms of a short stay visa. Teaching English in a developing country away from the conflict areas might be another option. Those countries are often more concerned about the effects of emmigration (the brain drain as qualified people move to the EU/USA) than immigration. I have actually given this some thought from time to time, silly as it may sound!

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Last edited by ihasa; 09-17-2012 at 03:10 AM.

[newmikey]

I've always found it highly ironic how much harder it is for us to emigrate than it is the reverse. People here bitch up a blue streak about how poor people are so disadvantaged by not their being able to come here as they like and stay regardless of the law but when you look at it the reality of the situation is almost anyone can come here and get to stay whatever the law says. The reverse is just nearly impossible.

America already makes it a thousand times easier to immigrate than any place else in the world and any attempt to stave that immigration off always ends up with people arguing.

I really don't know where you got this and whether you are one of those Americans that are oblivious to the rest of the world? If we would have the same arrangements for Americans at our borders as the treatment us Europeans get when entering the US, Americans wouldn't even begin to start thinking of a European holiday.

We have to register on ESTA ahead of time and pay for the right to actually arrive in the US to begin with, although we are from "VISA-waiver" countries. We are required to answer stupid questions like "are you a terrorist" or "have you been convicted of drug smuggling" - something we used to make fun about when the questions were still on those little green slips of paper you'd need to fill out on a plane.

We get shouted into the correct line (the longest) by people in uniform who can barely speak English themselves but yell and scream at people as if they actually are something more than a mere public servant. We wait for up to 2 hours to arrive at a desk where we need to make a good impression on a passport control officer or he won't let us in and will send us back without explanation on the first available flight. We get our mugshot and fingerprints taken as if we are convicted criminals and then, maybe then, we are allowed into....the next 2 hour waiting line for Customs where the mere sight of a cheese sandwich causes many a heart attack for the assembled officers who will advance on the offending snack with guns drawn and dogs snarling.

No, getting into the US nowadays is a pain in the neck - although I still need to go there in the course of my job, my vacation funds and spending go to neighbor Canada - a modern 21st century country with freedoms Americans can only dream of, with actual foreign news on TV and in the newspapers, with citizens who are not oblivious to the rest of the world around them and with policemen and women who actually are public servants who do their darned best to serve with a smile and refrain from acting like they are god herself. Other benefit: Canada actually is a democracy rather than pretending to be one like the US.

[magkelly]

I got it when I actually read the immigration laws for several countries I was thinking of emigrating to. When I say about the only way I'd ever be able to emigrate is to marry some poor guy I mean it. That's about the only option left to me short of inheriting a million or two. I've actually been close to someone who was in the process of immigrating legally here. It wasn't all that hard compared to some places though of course they didn't exactly make it pleasant.

But that's legally. Many people who come here don't even bother with that and they still end up living here for years sans harassment via the INS. It's a lot easier here to just jump the borders or come in on a visa of some sort and never leave. To just vanish into certain communities.

One woman I knew? She apparently came in as a student and never left, worked here for 25 years before she finally went home and never once even got so much as a casual look from the INS. I have no idea of how she did it but she got a legal SS and everything. She'd have had a lot harder time doing that in the UK or in Europe from what I've seen.

I'd just love to be able to pack up and go when my parents are no longer here to take care of. Travel the world for a few years or as long as my $$$ hold out. It would be nice to do that and to be able to work a bit while I am there, but if I tried that? I'd likely end up in jail from what I've read. People talk about living out of a backpack, working and traveling for years at a time but I really don't see how they manage to survive and avoid getting caught. Not in the EU or the UK and all.

Yeah, I think other countries make it a lot harder to work or settle there actually. You don't have to be a rich, high level anything to come to live here. It helps, sure, but the average person is far more welcome here than elsewhere. The requirements for some of the places I'd like to live in? They're pretty brutal actually....

[Nesster]

Is it worrysome that my first thought was "NOW what are those union thugs up to?" when I read the title of this thread?

[ihasa]

I got it when I actually read the immigration laws for several countries I was thinking of emigrating to. When I say about the only way I'd ever be able to emigrate is to marry some poor guy I mean it. That's about the only option left to me short of inheriting a million or two. I've actually been close to someone who was in the process of immigrating legally here. It wasn't all that hard compared to some places though of course they didn't exactly make it pleasant.

But that's legally. Many people who come here don't even bother with that and they still end up living here for years sans harassment via the INS. It's a lot easier here to just jump the borders or come in on a visa of some sort and never leave. To just vanish into certain communities.

One woman I knew? She apparently came in as a student and never left, worked here for 25 years before she finally went home and never once even got so much as a casual look from the INS. I have no idea of how she did it but she got a legal SS and everything. She'd have had a lot harder time doing that in the UK or in Europe from what I've seen.

I'd just love to be able to pack up and go when my parents are no longer here to take care of. Travel the world for a few years or as long as my $$$ hold out. It would be nice to do that and to be able to work a bit while I am there, but if I tried that? I'd likely end up in jail from what I've read. People talk about living out of a backpack, working and traveling for years at a time but I really don't see how they manage to survive and avoid getting caught. Not in the EU or the UK and all.

Yeah, I think other countries make it a lot harder to work or settle there actually. You don't have to be a rich, high level anything to come to live here. It helps, sure, but the average person is far more welcome here than elsewhere. The requirements for some of the places I'd like to live in? They're pretty brutal actually....

Ok so you knew this woman who entered the US 25 years ago. You think people don't also do that here? Have you ever tried to immigrate to the USA? I looked at the option once and gave up. The only two options available to me are to marry a US citizen (and I'm not even sure a same-sex marriage would be recognised?) or to have an employer sponsor me, or over $150,000 in cold cash to start a business. None of which are realistic options for me.

I guess like the UK, it seems easy for any Tom Dick and Harry to immigrate, but do you really know what their situation is? Perhaps they have family members in the US and get in that way. Tons of people enter the UK that way, frequently by arranged marriages. Or perhaps some of them get in on short term visas and just overstay. Loads of people do that in the UK, but do you really want that uncertainty? I wouldn't want to live like that. The only way I'd accept that lifestyle is if I was escaping something truly terrible.

[Nesster]

Shadowy war of sabotage against Iran's nuclear facilities – Telegraph Blogs

Every so often, the veil is lifted on the shadowy war of sabotage being waged against Iran’s nuclear facilities. Another of those moments arrived yesterday when Fereydoun Abbasi, the head of Iran’s Atomic Energy Organisation, disclosed that his country’s most sensitive nuclear facility was targeted last month.

On August 17, the power cables serving the Fordow Enrichment Plant were severed by an explosion, said Abbasi when he addressed the International Atomic Energy Agency. These power lines apparently run between Fordow and the nearby city of Qom.

As so often, Iran’s account of this incident raises more questions than answers. Fordow is the most sensitive nuclear plant that Iran possesses – this is the facility dug into a mountainside beneath perhaps 260ft of rock and earth. As such, it seems pretty extraordinary that it would lack a power supply of its own and rely on a normal grid connection to Qom.

Then again, the power cut seems to have done no lasting damage. We know that because the IAEA visited Fordow on August 18, the day after the explosion, and released their latest report on Iran’s nuclear programme on August 30. This makes no mention of any damage in Fordow. If the centrifuges spinning inside the plant had been shut down by a sudden loss of electricity, they would have torn themselves to pieces as they decelerated. So perhaps Fordow has a back-up system that would allow its centrifuges to survive a power cut. That would certainly make sense. But why, then, did the saboteurs bother to blow up the power cable at all if this would inflict no damage?

Abbasi used the incident to discredit the IAEA, asking whether its inspectors might have been behind the explosion on the grounds that they happened to visit Fordow a day later. His theory seems to be that the IAEA experts actually arrived on a damage assessment mission. If so, they seem to have found no damage and the incident had no impact. Or maybe the centrifuges were harmed, but the inspectors somehow failed to notice.

Iran Nuclear Program: Saboteurs Cut Power To Controversial Fordow Nuclear Plant, Iran's Atomic Energy Chief Says

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/19/who-s-sabotaging-iran-s-nuclear-program.html

[pickles]

G'Day from Oz.
OK guys, what is going to happen here?....Maybe something will.
The reason I say this is because I heard on the radio this morning that Pres. Obama said that Iran was not to be allowed to obtain nuclear weapons, that he was trying to resolve the issue by mediation, but that the time for this was not indefinite?
So, what will he do?
Cheers, Pickles.

[kswier]

Israel can fight it's own darn war if it and/or Iran insists upon going there. I'm sorry, but enough. They need to deal with it themselves. Find a way to co-exist

These mirror my thoughts. If Israel and Iran must go to war, let them. But I wan no part in it, and do not want America involved. I do not think it is our war, and think it will worsen what little credibility we have in the middle east.

We get shouted into the correct line (the longest) by people in uniform who can barely speak English themselves but yell and scream at people as if they actually are something more than a mere public servant.

No worries, Americans get the same treatment...that's just TSA

Apologies in advance to any TSA agents on the forum, but I couldn't resist the joke .

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So, what will he do

Obama is trying to stall the Iran issue as much as possible - almost to the point of it being his number one priority. Any type of action that would involve america (even simply supplying planes) would spell the end of his chances for election - and he is well aware of this. There's also the "idea" that if america would get involved in any way that it could also quickly escalate. Just how far exactly??

The draft issue is very seriosly on the table now. It might very welll be a needed option despite any party which may be in office.

So it will be interesting to see all of the attempts at delays up until the election point. Then any and all options are on the table, but for what??