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mikemike · 09-20-2012, 08:25 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jeffkrol

Mary Magdalene...............wife and disciple... Ask the Templars.......... or the Cathars or Albigensians

Well from what I heard about the catholic doctrine on this subject as a result of this story, only men can be disciples. I know that Jesus gave Peter and the church the power to make changes in the world. Therefore, Mary Magdalene was a man and Jesus was married to a transgendered man by the power vested in the Catholic Church.

Amen

ihasa · 09-20-2012, 08:39 AM

Ironically Jesus in the Gospel of St Thomas echoes what you say - 'every woman who becomes male shall enter the kingdom of heaven'. Although I'm fairly sure it wasn't intended literally...

Nesster · 09-20-2012, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by mikemike

Therefore, Mary Magdalene was a man and Jesus was married to a transgendered man by the power vested in the Catholic Church.

For Him who turned water into wine, turning an outie into an innie is no big deal...

reeftool · 09-23-2012, 11:02 AM

Why is it that every time somebody finds some old piece of writing, they assume it has to be true? There were strange offshoot cults since the first century and some get mention in the New Testament. They were present then. Much of the New Testament is letters dealing with issues brought about by false teachers. It should surprise nobody that some of this writing has survived.

Tom S. · 09-23-2012, 11:21 AM

Discussing religion can be dangerous, but I'll pipe up anyway.

What difference does it make? If Jesus was married, it changes neither his teachings, his message, nor the beliefs he was trying to instill.

Na Horuk · 09-23-2012, 11:29 AM

But who wants to worship just some dude, who loved his wife more than he loves 'me', the worshiper?

ihasa · 09-23-2012, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by reeftool

Why is it that every time somebody finds some old piece of writing, they assume it has to be true? There were strange offshoot cults since the first century and some get mention in the New Testament. They were present then. Much of the New Testament is letters dealing with issues brought about by false teachers. It should surprise nobody that some of this writing has survived.

It's very likely bits of Jesus's life were edited out, and other bits elaborated upon, as the gospels developed. That the canonical gospels are 'true' is a matter of faith (for Xtians), not historical fact.

hks_kansei · 09-23-2012, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Tom S.

Discussing religion can be dangerous, but I'll pipe up anyway.

What difference does it make? If Jesus was married, it changes neither his teachings, his message, nor the beliefs he was trying to instill.

I tend to agree,

The church encourages couples to marry, living in sin etc, why is it so bad for Jesus to have had a wife?

magkelly · 09-23-2012, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Unless you subscribe to the theory that Jesus was an Essene or at the very least influenced by the Essenes.

Not all Essenes were celibate and unmarried. (Check out the books of Elaine Pagels...) Some were, but not all. I'm not saying it's impossible that he was unmarried. I'm just saying it's unlikely. There's also the rather controversial school of thought that Jeshua might have been gay. I personally don't care who he slept with but I will admit that I believe it's more likely that he did sleep with someone than not. It's possible to live your whole life and be celibate, sure, but most people don't manage that. It makes sense to me that he was married and that maybe even his wife was Mary Magdalene or maybe Mary the sister of Lazarus and Martha. Both women supported his ministry and they are both mentioned in a major way in the Bible unlike most of his other female disciples. There's this old idea that the Magdalene was actually the "Disciple to the Disciples" and it makes perfect sense to me that he would have appeared to her first if she was his wife.

MRRiley · 09-24-2012, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by Tom S.

Discussing religion can be dangerous, but I'll pipe up anyway.

What difference does it make? If Jesus was married, it changes neither his teachings, his message, nor the beliefs he was trying to instill.

Originally posted by hks_kansei

I tend to agree,

The church encourages couples to marry, living in sin etc, why is it so bad for Jesus to have had a wife?

Because then maybe sex isn't as evil as the church (which controls the teachings, message and beliefs) would have their sheep believe.

Sandy Hancock · 09-24-2012, 04:45 AM

I have been convinced of this likelihood since the early eighties. There is a large body of apocrypha which supports it.
If Jesus were not married it would have been so unusual to be worth a mention somewhere. No such mention exists.
Remember that what we know as the New Testament is only that which passed through the misogynist filter of the Council of Nicea.

**newmikey** · 09-24-2012, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by reeftool

There were strange offshoot cults since the first century and some get mention in the New Testament. They were present then. Much of the New Testament is letters dealing with issues brought about by false teachers. It should surprise nobody that some of this writing has survived.

Actually, christianity itself is such a "strange offshoot cult" itself and both form and content were nowhere near complete in the first century. It took a Roman emperor until the 4th century to accomplish that and even in the 17 centuries that followed the cult continued changing constantly, a process which is continuing in these modern times.

The type of christianity that seems to be emerging in the US is as much a "strange offshoot cult" as the jewish cults of the 1st century that eventually gave birth to christianity.

GeneV · 09-24-2012, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by Nesster

For Him who turned water into wine, turning an outie into an innie is no big deal...

And what if it were Jesus and Murray Magdalene? Perhaps that is why we don't know of the children.

les3547 · 09-24-2012, 08:00 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

I have been convinced of this likelihood since the early eighties. There is a large body of apocrypha which supports it.
If Jesus were not married it would have been so unusual to be worth a mention somewhere. No such mention exists.
Remember that what we know as the New Testament is only that which passed through the misogynist filter of the Council of Nicea.

Not necessarily. Jesus seems to have showed up after a long absence, and then caused quite a stir from day one as he traveled around speaking. The focus was his unusual energy, his ability to inspire and attract followers. Also, he wasn't around very long, a bit over 3 years, so he could've escaped the normal scrutiny of a Jewish young man reaching marriage age.

As for celibacy, I suspect he was. Again, his mission was short and very focused. He had people leaving their families and selling possessions to join him full time on the road. And this quote suggests he was celibate for spiritual reasons (not at all unusual in India at the time, and there is reason to suggest that Jesus was taught in India):

"His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.' But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 'For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.'

Tom S. · 09-26-2012, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by MRRiley

Because then maybe sex isn't as evil as the church (which controls the teachings, message and beliefs) would have their sheep believe.

No church that I'm aware of says sex is evil, unless you are referring to premarital sex, adultery or homosexual activities. Quite the opposite in fact, if you consider the Catholic church wants it's followers to have as many "little Catholics" running around as possible - hence the rhythm method of contraception. After all, without a steady supply of potential new donors, how would the church survive?

09-20-2012, 08:39 AM	#17
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	Ironically Jesus in the Gospel of St Thomas echoes what you say - 'every woman who becomes male shall enter the kingdom of heaven'. Although I'm fairly sure it wasn't intended literally... Last edited by ihasa; 09-20-2012 at 09:43 AM.

09-24-2012, 05:22 AM	#28
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Nesster For Him who turned water into wine, turning an outie into an innie is no big deal... And what if it were Jesus and Murray Magdalene? Perhaps that is why we don't know of the children. Last edited by GeneV; 09-24-2012 at 06:48 AM.

09-24-2012, 08:00 AM - 1 Like	#29
les3547 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Sebastopol, California Photos: Albums Posts: 2,020	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock I have been convinced of this likelihood since the early eighties. There is a large body of apocrypha which supports it. If Jesus were not married it would have been so unusual to be worth a mention somewhere. No such mention exists. Remember that what we know as the New Testament is only that which passed through the misogynist filter of the Council of Nicea. Not necessarily. Jesus seems to have showed up after a long absence, and then caused quite a stir from day one as he traveled around speaking. The focus was his unusual energy, his ability to inspire and attract followers. Also, he wasn't around very long, a bit over 3 years, so he could've escaped the normal scrutiny of a Jewish young man reaching marriage age. As for celibacy, I suspect he was. Again, his mission was short and very focused. He had people leaving their families and selling possessions to join him full time on the road. And this quote suggests he was celibate for spiritual reasons (not at all unusual in India at the time, and there is reason to suggest that Jesus was taught in India): "His disciples said to Him, 'If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.' But He said to them, 'All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 'For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.' Last edited by les3547; 09-24-2012 at 01:24 PM.

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09-20-2012, 08:25 AM - 1 Like	#16
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by jeffkrol Mary Magdalene...............wife and disciple... Ask the Templars.......... or the Cathars or Albigensians Well from what I heard about the catholic doctrine on this subject as a result of this story, only men can be disciples. I know that Jesus gave Peter and the church the power to make changes in the world. Therefore, Mary Magdalene was a man and Jesus was married to a transgendered man by the power vested in the Catholic Church. Amen

09-20-2012, 08:40 AM	#18
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Originally posted by mikemike Therefore, Mary Magdalene was a man and Jesus was married to a transgendered man by the power vested in the Catholic Church. For Him who turned water into wine, turning an outie into an innie is no big deal...

09-23-2012, 11:02 AM	#19
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,555	Why is it that every time somebody finds some old piece of writing, they assume it has to be true? There were strange offshoot cults since the first century and some get mention in the New Testament. They were present then. Much of the New Testament is letters dealing with issues brought about by false teachers. It should surprise nobody that some of this writing has survived.

09-23-2012, 11:21 AM	#20
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Discussing religion can be dangerous, but I'll pipe up anyway. What difference does it make? If Jesus was married, it changes neither his teachings, his message, nor the beliefs he was trying to instill.

09-23-2012, 11:29 AM	#21
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	But who wants to worship just some dude, who loved his wife more than he loves 'me', the worshiper?

09-23-2012, 02:00 PM	#22
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	Originally posted by reeftool Why is it that every time somebody finds some old piece of writing, they assume it has to be true? There were strange offshoot cults since the first century and some get mention in the New Testament. They were present then. Much of the New Testament is letters dealing with issues brought about by false teachers. It should surprise nobody that some of this writing has survived. It's very likely bits of Jesus's life were edited out, and other bits elaborated upon, as the gospels developed. That the canonical gospels are 'true' is a matter of faith (for Xtians), not historical fact.

09-23-2012, 02:16 PM	#23
hks_kansei Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 834	Originally posted by Tom S. Discussing religion can be dangerous, but I'll pipe up anyway. What difference does it make? If Jesus was married, it changes neither his teachings, his message, nor the beliefs he was trying to instill. I tend to agree, The church encourages couples to marry, living in sin etc, why is it so bad for Jesus to have had a wife?

09-23-2012, 02:58 PM	#24
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	Originally posted by boriscleto Unless you subscribe to the theory that Jesus was an Essene or at the very least influenced by the Essenes. Not all Essenes were celibate and unmarried. (Check out the books of Elaine Pagels...) Some were, but not all. I'm not saying it's impossible that he was unmarried. I'm just saying it's unlikely. There's also the rather controversial school of thought that Jeshua might have been gay. I personally don't care who he slept with but I will admit that I believe it's more likely that he did sleep with someone than not. It's possible to live your whole life and be celibate, sure, but most people don't manage that. It makes sense to me that he was married and that maybe even his wife was Mary Magdalene or maybe Mary the sister of Lazarus and Martha. Both women supported his ministry and they are both mentioned in a major way in the Bible unlike most of his other female disciples. There's this old idea that the Magdalene was actually the "Disciple to the Disciples" and it makes perfect sense to me that he would have appeared to her first if she was his wife.

09-24-2012, 04:24 AM	#25
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by Tom S. Discussing religion can be dangerous, but I'll pipe up anyway. What difference does it make? If Jesus was married, it changes neither his teachings, his message, nor the beliefs he was trying to instill. Originally posted by hks_kansei I tend to agree, The church encourages couples to marry, living in sin etc, why is it so bad for Jesus to have had a wife? Because then maybe sex isn't as evil as the church (which controls the teachings, message and beliefs) would have their sheep believe.

09-24-2012, 04:45 AM	#26
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,276	I have been convinced of this likelihood since the early eighties. There is a large body of apocrypha which supports it. If Jesus were not married it would have been so unusual to be worth a mention somewhere. No such mention exists. Remember that what we know as the New Testament is only that which passed through the misogynist filter of the Council of Nicea.

09-24-2012, 04:55 AM	#27
newmikey Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,290	Originally posted by reeftool There were strange offshoot cults since the first century and some get mention in the New Testament. They were present then. Much of the New Testament is letters dealing with issues brought about by false teachers. It should surprise nobody that some of this writing has survived. Actually, christianity itself is such a "strange offshoot cult" itself and both form and content were nowhere near complete in the first century. It took a Roman emperor until the 4th century to accomplish that and even in the 17 centuries that followed the cult continued changing constantly, a process which is continuing in these modern times. The type of christianity that seems to be emerging in the US is as much a "strange offshoot cult" as the jewish cults of the 1st century that eventually gave birth to christianity.

09-26-2012, 01:28 PM	#30
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by MRRiley Because then maybe sex isn't as evil as the church (which controls the teachings, message and beliefs) would have their sheep believe. No church that I'm aware of says sex is evil, unless you are referring to premarital sex, adultery or homosexual activities. Quite the opposite in fact, if you consider the Catholic church wants it's followers to have as many "little Catholics" running around as possible - hence the rhythm method of contraception. After all, without a steady supply of potential new donors, how would the church survive?