[boriscleto]

BBC News - Ancient statue discovered by Nazis is made from meteorite

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[fisheye freak]

The Swastika is an ancient symbol. It is often found in places like Nepal. Typical though the Nazis making a big deal of it. It is ,after all, just a symbol. In its ancient form, it is nothing sinister.Meteorite material ,especially iron ones was always revered in the pre iron age. Probably of limited use for implements , although the Innuit people used 2 large iron meteorites to fashion their knives. Perry bought them from the Innuit to take to New York. One at least is in a museum. I have a bit of a collection of meteorites myself.
As for the Nazis, as their power increased, the amount of lunacy in their ideas increased. A note to humanity-beware of ANY group that seeks more power, especially one that gives the air of respectability.

[boriscleto]

Jacksonville museum pieces actually Nazi loot; owner to get them back | jacksonville.com

[Winder]

Really interesting piece. A high nickle and cobalt would make that a pretty hard rock to try to sculpt. I would think harder than most other materials available 1,000+ years ago. The artisan who created that was very experienced and had access to some very good tools.

Technically that is a sauwastika on his chest and not a swastika. The only known difference being a sauwastika is left facing and a swastika is right facing. It probably has an alternate meaning as they are both listed as separate symbols in ancient writing.

I wish they had a better picture. I would like to know what is in the left hand. This would have been a super premium piece for its day and everything carved into it would have had a meaning.
We have the Aureola so we know the person depicted is sacred.
His right had is turned out and lowered which for a Buddha image would be an offering of compassion, but they say this is "pre-Buddha".
The swastika meaning greater or higher self (assuming swastika & sauwastika to have the same meaning).

But what about his left hand? What is he holding?

[Lupine]

The Swastika is an ancient symbol. It is often found in places like Nepal.

IIRC, there was some use of swastika-like symbols by various Jewish groups over 3,000 years ago. In parts of Asia a swastika is still used on maps to mark the locations of Buddhist temples and is some places it is the symbol for eternity.

However, that does not change the fact that in Europe and North America it has become a symbol of hatred and bigotry.

[boriscleto]

[Ratmagiclady]

Technically that is a sauwastika on his chest and not a swastika. The only known difference being a sauwastika is left facing and a swastika is right facing. It probably has an alternate meaning as they are both listed as separate symbols in ancient writing.

Meaning-wise, it matters somewhat less, the direction, in various cultures, than popular culture makes of it today: people want to say 'Well, it facing one way is 'good' and the other way is 'bad' but in a lot of instances, but the direction it's drawn in often doesn't much matter: I suspect in some others, it denotes which way one's looking at it, like it were a physical object. Don't know about Bon usage in particular, but it's been a sacred symbol throughout much of the ancient world.

I wish they had a better picture. I would like to know what is in the left hand. This would have been a super premium piece for its day and everything carved into it would have had a meaning.
We have the Aureola so we know the person depicted is sacred.
His right had is turned out and lowered which for a Buddha image would be an offering of compassion, but they say this is "pre-Buddha".
The swastika meaning greater or higher self (assuming swastika & sauwastika to have the same meaning).

Bon religion shares a lot of coherence with Buddhism, despite being even older: some might even say an earlier Buddha turned up there: the cultural similarities with the Buddhism of the Himalayas in particular is pretty obvious: since a lot of those regions were on trade routes, it's not surprising there are some shared practices and imagery.

The Nazi interest in these things and the symbol had a great deal to do with certain anthropological theories about the 'Aryans' (Which they determined had to be Nordic people without much basis: it was certainly known that swastikas were all over the ancient world, so it fit in pretty nicely with their attempts to claim ancient legitimacy for their racialist theories: a lot of this comes from Blavatsky's attempts to tie a bunch of things together according to certain takes on certain anthropological theories: a lot of what you hear about as 'Nazi occultism' rather telephone-tagged from there through certain elements in Theosophy (Actually, you can read about the debates of the time in those circles, if you happen to have come across certain editions of certain works published by the Theosophical society: people don't like to admit it, but there was plenty of popular racism and anti-Semitism and crackpot eugenic ideas out in the world in the Twenties and Thirties, including in America: some of what was going on in Theosophical inquiry much-mirrored the times: (The Theosophical Society was really in large measure structured around discussing *any* ideas, interestingly, some of those notions filtered down into some of what those nice white-lighty crystal-wavin' New Agers (yes, there's a big difference between New Age and Pagan, though some will tell you differently, btw.) read and talk about: Atlantis and 'ascended masters' and the like.) Certain people kind of got into positions of relative influence as teachers with some of those very ideas, though: I suspect this division has a great deal to do with the emphasis on unfailing positivity in that set since WWII: where people could end up taking certain theories became clear enough to those actually seeking some spirituality, obviously.

In the case of 'Nazi occultism,' much of this ended up almost purely racialist and generally rather nonsensical, and all about trying to prove something about a Teutonic 'master race:' certainly in the case of sticking a few runes on things, it bore little to no resemblance from even the 'nordic' Pagan cultures they were appropriating: (And lots of Christianity: the Nazis did run on a 'Christian values' platform, then started trying to supplant that authority, you see: that includes a long-standing undercurrent of anti-Semitism and the like that was already there, as well as certain 'secret societies' for the elite: there was more of Wagner than Wodin about *that,* though: particularly in Germany, but in many places, there was a big identity crisis about just who European people *were* or *are,* )


Anyway, in *that* context, the whole thing about swastikas and which way they're facing and the like had much to do with the Nazis going all around the world looking for 'evidence' of their 'Aryan master race' theory, but it was already known that that symbol would be found all over the place: the theories of 'Aryan invasions' especially on the Indian subcontinent were sort of put together by a cigar-smoking mystic lady (Who, ironically, was at least part-Jewish by upbringing,) decades before, though. It was easy enough to go from descriptions of people who were light*er*-skinned than the population now mostly found in southern India to notions of 'white people,' given the descriptions of the time. (You can probably imagine the Nazis would have been all over this statue here, with the right captioning, if they'd gotten hold of it, and never mind which way the symbol's facing.: what they sure *didn't* do is seem to talk much about the same symbols appearing with Goddesses all over the Mediterranean and Asia Minor and India: fascism sure doesn't want to elevate anyone or anything 'feminine,' in that way: a figure like this statue, though, they could sure have used to claim to be some rightful rulers of the world who'd been suppressed by some masses of 'inferiors' etc etc. Things like Nazism tend to require a certain appeal to hypermasculinity in order to appeal to frustrated dominance instincts, that's one reason there's always so much about 'women in their place' and who controls breeding and the like: also why they rounded up gay people or anyone they wanted to call such and sent them to the gas chambers: it's also worth noting that the Roma people who'd always been disfavored anyway would have a better claim to be descended of the 'Aryans' than would the Germans, according to what was known by most at the time. (They were called 'Gypsies' because they used to claim to be descended of Egyptians in order to fit into the sense of history of the Middle Ages and later: as a 'Biblical' people. But that very refusal to assimilate to various means of control was always something that made them unpopular with authorities. ) )

Which is a lot of detail about why a lot is made of trying to distance the Nazi tilted swastika (probably more a design decision than a symbolic one, however ironic, there: quartered circles in one form or another appear pretty much worldwide, as symbolizing Earth and time and the intersection of worlds, early Nazi logos didn't have that tilt to them,) from, particularly, its use in Hindu practices: it's meant to connote a wheel, among other things, anyway, but obviously, perception of the symbol's been heavily tainted by its use in hate and atrocity. It's possible that the tilted version was meant to represent the turning of a great age, but if so, I like to think the SOBs got more than they bargained for on that count. I also think it's not a lesson the world's fully-learned yet, when it comes to people waving flags and symbols and the like around, but there's more to that than a misappropriated symbol.

But what about his left hand? What is he holding?

Can't really see, but it appears to be some kind of vessel, such as you see in that region.

[Ratmagiclady]

IIRC, there was some use of swastika-like symbols by various Jewish groups over 3,000 years ago. In parts of Asia a swastika is still used on maps to mark the locations of Buddhist temples and is some places it is the symbol for eternity.

However, that does not change the fact that in Europe and North America it has become a symbol of hatred and bigotry.

I expanded on that in what I just posted, but indeed, it's been all over 'Indo-European' civilization, (Part of why the Nazis came to choose it, especially given the theories some of them were trying to push, ) ...I figure it'll be a very long time before people in the West see much else about it. Not much avoiding that. To the West, it'll even be a symbol of 'Enemy' for a long long while, cause it's still used as such, both in film and the like, and, Hel, by certain hate-groups and the like I've ended up going up against in my own lifetime. Funny enough, for those same people I see it as a badge of their fear.

Time wounds all heels, y'know?

[seacapt]

Lets not leave out the tumbling logs symbol used by several Native American tribes... yup it looks just like that!

[fisheye freak]

The swastika symbol from 1,000 years ago is apparently a peace symbol. Note it is up and down. The Nazis had it at an angle for visual appeal, so it is slightly different in that respect. Had an interesting chat and expecting an email from a patient who has a swastika symbol tattooed on his arm. I made a comment about it(not the sort of guy I would expect to be a Nazi) and he told me the story about it which is why I have the new info. When I get the extra info, I will relay it. Did you know the Nazis were uber green? They loved animals and nature, but hated humans - they would have fought to the very last person. They came up with crazier and crazier ideas as they gained more and more power. Bit like the Green political movement of today. You owe it to yourself to check out the crazy ideas of LA 21, sometimes referred to as ICLEI, or AR-4. LA 21 stands for local Agenda 21. It looks like total green Utopian crap. They try to sell it to us (shove it down our throats) as a viable way of life, but it cannot work. There are assumptions that one has manufactured goods, but these are regarded as "unsustainable" practices. They say we should only consume food grown within 100 miles, but at the same time, whole continents are designated to be NOT growing food. From the same group (UN) their own Utopian ideals are diametrically opposed to each other. Nice one, whole continents being starved due to bureaucratic incompetence. Wake up world, the Greens, through their undue influence with the UN are in reality the new Nazis.
Other conundrums - in the western world, women get all the rights- men seem to be the ones discriminated against. Yet the UN and many western governments have a ridiculous soft spot for Muslims-they do not want to offend them, so they get far more rights than they deserve. Under their sharia law, women are downtrodden. Well, which way are they really going to go- the 2 are diametrically opposed, a fundamental contradiction within itself.
Under the UNIDO (UN industry development organisation) spiel, national sovereignty is sacrosanct, yet the UN's own Agenda 21 calls for one world government, which by definition requires the dissolution of national sovereignty(as well as rights to self determination.) All sounds nice and warm and fuzzy-no wars. Pity we all have to forfeit our sovereignty and rights to self determination to achieve One World Government. Wars are fought over these 2 issues. Bottom line, to achieve the supposed state of no more war because of one world government, one must be comprehensively VANQUISHED. Eventually, due to bureaucratic failures and the inevitable starvation, the resulting desperate revolt WILL lead to the most horrendous civil war ever experienced by humanity.
Looks like the difference between peace and tyranny is 45 degrees.

[Winder]

The swastika symbol from 1,000 years ago is apparently a peace symbol. Note it is up and down. The Nazis had it at an angle for visual appeal, so it is slightly different in that respect.

The original symbol is a lot older than 1,000 years. The swastika (right facing) and the sauwastika (left facing) both appear in Hindu culture (oldest known) with the left facing being more common on older pieces. It is possible they have the exact same meaning, but more probable that there was a slight variation in the meaning. They were probably used in different context. It was a very important symbol as you see it carved prominently on the chest of one of their gods.

They symbol was one of the auspicious symbols used to express good fortune, prosperity and generosity. The god depicted is Vaiśravaṇa who was the god of wealth and generosity. The right hand is down and the palm turned out. This is the blessing mudra which also is a sign of compassion and generosity. This is probably a some version of a luck/prosperity totem.

The reason the Nazi's(NSDAP) sent expeditions to Tibet is because the Aryan race originated from that area. Realize that word Aryan is derived from Sanskrit. The swastika was widely used prior the NSDAP as a symbol of good luck and prosperity. The NSDAP was campaigning on a very nationalistic/socialist platform to return Germany to prosperity. The NSDAP (National Socialist German Workers' Party) or Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei as it was called in Germany was just a grass roots labor union party who took the preexisting and widely understood symbol for prosperity and stole it for their own political symbol.

Hitler explain why he chose the symbol in "Mein Kampf".
Not only because it incorporated those revered colours expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honour to the German nation, but this symbol was also an eloquent expression of the will behind the movement. We National Socialists regarded our flag as being the embodiment of our party programme. The red expressed the social thought underlying the movement. White the national thought. And the swastika signified the mission allotted to us--the struggle for the victory of Aryan mankind and at the same time the triumph of the ideal of creative work which is in itself and always will be anti-Semitic.
Speculation as to why Hitler elected to rotate the swastika 45 degrees? Probably imply movement or progress. Standing on the tip gives the impression that it is in motion and turning or tumbling.