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10-17-2012, 04:31 AM - 1 Like   #1
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The Dear Departed

I suppose there is a variety of reasons why people who change systems feel the need to express themselves about it afterwards. In the post-Photokina period, we're seeing a minor spate of multiple posts of that nature here, some more persistently repetitive than others.

Rather than get irritated by it, or dismiss the phenomenon as the work of a few malcontents, I suggest we have a competition to identify and name the various syndromes involved. Perhaps Adam can find a prize for the best contributions. This should all be in good spirits, of course, with no hint of malice at the hastily angry words or bitingly critical tone of a few of the once-were-Pentaxians.

Those of us who remain do so, like those who have departed (almost), for a variety of reasons that some have tried to explain or define in anguished contention or in poll after poll, but most of us contentedly click on with what we like doing, whether it be with our shutter buttons or mouse buttons. Perhaps there's a few syndromes amongst the Remainers, that we could treat similarly, or we could just leave it to the Nikon and Canon fanciers.

To kick things off (hopefully), can I suggest two: the Jilted Lovers, who clung to Pentax with high expectations of Full Frame Fulfillment, only to be repeatedly spurned, and the Shiny-faced Converts, who have seen the light of the One True System, and turned their backs on the False Gods of the others.

What do you reckon? It could be more fun and better for the collective mental health than constantly dwelling on the empty part of the glass. All contributions welcome, but no offensive behaviour, please. We're all consenting adults here.

10-17-2012, 08:48 AM   #2
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The Grass is Always Greener
10-17-2012, 09:51 AM - 1 Like   #3
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Full Frame Flatulence
10-17-2012, 10:46 AM   #4
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As a professional mechanic for over 40 years, I can't understand the issues some make over their tools. If it does the job, great. If it doesn't, then get something else. I have seen it however. There are Snap-On and Mac fanboys who are downright snobby over tools. (BTW, the tool snob is usually the worse mechanic in the garage.) It's no surprise to see it in the camera world. The fact is that every DSLR available is a pretty darn good tool in the right hands and there are some who are going to get lousy results no matter what they shoot with.

I see tool snobs all the time blame a tool for their inability to properly repair something. I see them whine and cry on the Snap-On truck and demand their money back when the $90 wrench stripped a bolt head and they borrowed my $9 Craftsman to do the job. When the dealer points out that he was using a 12 point wrench and my wrench worked because it was 6 point, the snob then buys a $300 set of 6 point wrenches. He would never go to Sears and spend $29. Too bad. It's a disease I think so getting back to camera gear and recognizing the disease aspect, I'll suggest "Canikon Fever".

10-17-2012, 11:28 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
As a professional mechanic for over 40 years, I can't understand the issues some make over their tools. If it does the job, great. If it doesn't, then get something else. I have seen it however. There are Snap-On and Mac fanboys who are downright snobby over tools. (BTW, the tool snob is usually the worse mechanic in the garage.) It's no surprise to see it in the camera world. The fact is that every DSLR available is a pretty darn good tool in the right hands and there are some who are going to get lousy results no matter what they shoot with.

I see tool snobs all the time blame a tool for their inability to properly repair something. I see them whine and cry on the Snap-On truck and demand their money back when the $90 wrench stripped a bolt head and they borrowed my $9 Craftsman to do the job. When the dealer points out that he was using a 12 point wrench and my wrench worked because it was 6 point, the snob then buys a $300 set of 6 point wrenches. He would never go to Sears and spend $29. Too bad. It's a disease I think so getting back to camera gear and recognizing the disease aspect, I'll suggest "Canikon Fever".
I some what agree with your observation. I buy hand tools from Harborfreight and so far I am content. Skills cannot be supplemented by tools. I am not a professional mechanic, I am a computer engineer, but I am quite handy and do all kinds of repair jobs from automobiles to plumbing to carpentry. I am also keen on electronics and do component level repairing. This has been an old hobby. But I am sure you will agree that a well made tool is always a delight to work with. For example, I will use my Harborfreight multimeter for checking continuity etc, but for more involved repairs like on motherboards I always use my expensive ones. When working on camcorders or laptops I stick to my Vessel screwdrivers over the el cheapo Harborfreight precision drivers.
10-17-2012, 11:28 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
When the dealer points out that he was using a 12 point wrench and my wrench worked because it was 6 point, the snob then buys a $300 set of 6 point wrenches. He would never go to Sears and spend $29. Too bad. It's a disease I think so getting back to camera gear and recognizing the disease aspect, I'll suggest "Canikon Fever".
How about "insanity"?
10-17-2012, 11:39 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
When the dealer points out that he was using a 12 point wrench and my wrench worked because it was 6 point, the snob then buys a $300 set of 6 point wrenches.
Sorry to digress, but a 12 point wrench should not cause any more rounding of the bolt head than a 6 point wrench would. This is because torque is always applied through the corners when turning a bolt with a wrench. The sides are only in slight contact when a bolt is turned forcibly with a wrench.

Socket wrench - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A common misconception is that a 12-point socket is more likely to round off the corners of a nut or bolt than a 6-point socket. In fact, since the torque is applied at the corners of the fastener, the two sockets have the same number of contact points, apply the same amount of torque, and one is no more likely to round off the corners than another. Although extensive industry testing documents this fact, the myth persists.

It appears the Snapon dealer took full advantage of the unwise mechanic's lack of knowledge.

10-17-2012, 11:45 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by debmalya Quote
I buy hand tools from Harborfreight and so far I am content.
Harborfreight!? Pfsh! 99 cents store is the BEST!

OK my contribution to the 'what ails 'em'

Pentacular tachycardia

Pentacular tachycardia is a fast heart rhythm that starts in the lower part of the heart (ventricles) when discussions of unfulfilled full frame desires circulate in the Pentax forums.
If left untreated, some forms of Pentacular tachycardia may get worse and lead to Canikon fibrillation, which can be wallet-threatening.
10-17-2012, 12:48 PM   #9
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It seems we've discovered a complex set of syndromes, and all with nothing more than a little reflection and a sense of objective scientific curiosity. So far, we have:
1. Jilted Lover;
2. Shiny-faced Convert;
3. Full Frame Flatulence;
4. The Grass is Always Greener;
5. Canikon Fever (apparently a form of insanity);
6. Pentacular tachycardia, associated with;
7. Canikon fibrillation.

There's probably a PhD thesis lurking in there, somewhere, but let's not stop the brainstorming now: I can feel a group emotional catharsis coming on.
10-17-2012, 01:11 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by debmalya Quote
Sorry to digress, but a 12 point wrench should not cause any more rounding of the bolt head than a 6 point wrench would. This is because torque is always applied through the corners when turning a bolt with a wrench. The sides are only in slight contact when a bolt is turned forcibly with a wrench.

Socket wrench - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A common misconception is that a 12-point socket is more likely to round off the corners of a nut or bolt than a 6-point socket. In fact, since the torque is applied at the corners of the fastener, the two sockets have the same number of contact points, apply the same amount of torque, and one is no more likely to round off the corners than another. Although extensive industry testing documents this fact, the myth persists.

It appears the Snapon dealer took full advantage of the unwise mechanic's lack of knowledge.
My point was his lack of skill and blaming the tool. A 6 point will give a better grip sometimes, especially in the smaller sizes. They are often a little better dealing with old, rusted bolts but only slightly. I deal with this stuff daily. I own both. Some of the high end Snap On tools are worth owning. I have a lot of them. They are also the stuff I abuse the crap out of because of the warranty. I have a 7/16 six point socket I use mostly for rusted roll up door hardware. It grips better. After about a year, it begins to wear inside and I purposely break it so I always have a new one.

I have never owned a Canon camera so I can't comment on them. I switched to Nikon for a time in my film days. I still have some of that stuff but most of it I gave to my daughter. She likes Nikon. I was unimpressed and remain so. I stayed with Pentax because I have always got better results. I just fail to see why some people make such a big deal about brand names. I use what works best for ME. If you want a FF camera, go buy one and stop complaining. Since I'm one of those rednecks that still has nearly everything I have ever owned, my current investment in gear doesn't matter because it's not going anywhere.
10-18-2012, 11:39 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I suppose there is a variety of reasons why people who change systems feel the need to express themselves about it afterwards. ...

Rather than get irritated by it, or dismiss the phenomenon as the work of a few malcontents, I suggest we have a competition to identify and name the various syndromes involved.
Geez, whatever it takes to make you feel better.

People switch brands all the time, and when they do they drop off the radar. Despite the consternation of Pentax patriots, there are some folks who appreciate such communiqués along with the acumen. Yes, believe it or not, there's more to photography than brand loyalty.
10-18-2012, 12:19 PM   #12
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My only problem with people changing systems is that they often feel they have to announce it to the whole world when they do. I mean, honestly, who cares? So Pentax doesn't do that exact something you want it to do? Fine. Then get what tool works for you and get the job done. Watching someone leave it is a bit like watching someone convert to another religion. The sudden zeal it's really something to watch. Sometimes it's vaguely amusing. Sometimes it's downright annoying. But in the end it's not worth getting all evangelical about it.

I mean in the end it's a CAMERA not the freakin holy grail, right?

(Well, unless it's a black Asahi SPII in mint condition, then it just might qualify as the holy grail, lol.)

People and their product cults. It's like the thing with the I-pad and the I-phone. There are at least a dozen much cheaper smart phones out there that would do the same job for most people but Apple people still line up like drones every time to get the newest one, even when they have one already. With the exception of the most diehard doll people, who do tend to collect dolls obsessively I will admit, there's just nothing I've ever seen that is more obsessive than an Apple devotee. The supreme Barbie nuts, the ones that keep the dolls in the boxes, buy two so they can have one for display and one in the box pristine, that's more obsessive I think, but not by much because there are actually people out there staking out their turf at Best Buy and such, camping outside their door for a week at a time just to get a PHONE.

I would never do that. Okay, I sat overnight once to get Bowie tickets, but only because I knew if I wasn't like 3rd in line there would be no tickets left by the time I tried to buy mine, but that's as close as I've ever come to that kind of behavior, and I was only 17 at the time, and I practically worship Bowie, which actually explains that moment of madness...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I love my Pentax gear. I would never give it up entirely to buy a kit from Nikon or Canon or whoever. But if I was doing a regular F/T photography job for a company that required a Nikon or a Canon or whatever I'd hock something if I had to and get one. In the end it's the tool they want and it's a F/T job. It's a paycheck or two at best. But I definitely would not sit here after the fact and rag on Pentax for not being Nikon or Canon.

Pentax is Pentax and half the reason I actually like them is because they are not Nikon or Canon and because their gear does things for me that a Nikon or a Canon actually can't. Like be more comfortable to use or go photographing out in the rain et all. From what I've seen each camera manufacturer has things that their brand does better or less better than others. So Pentax doesn't do FF yet. Does Canon or Nikon actually make a camera like the K5, a camera that can go to Iraq and deal with sand and grime sans major issues? Can you accidentally drop one of their pocket cams in the pool and take it out and still see it work after? Can you put a whole kit of their lenses and a DSLR in a small messenger bag and not break your arse carrying it? Can you use every lens almost for 50 years backwards on said camera if you want?

Yes, to all of the above, with a Pentax, and that's more than enough reason for me to be carrying one. If it's not good enough for someone else, well, I'm sorry, and I wish them well, but I don't then want to hear how superior their Nikon or Canon is. Because in my mind they're just not. Enough said...
10-18-2012, 12:37 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
My only problem with people changing systems is that they often feel they have to announce it to the whole world when they do. I mean, honestly, who cares?
I call it the "Nixon Syndrome".

"Pentax won't have me to kick around anymore!" The ability to announce it is *the* thing -- a last kiss-off to someone that has rejected you. Many of these switchers actually seem to feel on an emotional level that Pentax has broken up with them, not the other way around, but they wish to announce that they are the deciders, dammit. "I was faking it the whole time!" It is all ego, and ego must show itself to the world. That's why they call it ego.
10-18-2012, 12:44 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
Geez, whatever it takes to make you feel better.

People switch brands all the time, and when they do they drop off the radar. Despite the consternation of Pentax patriots, there are some folks who appreciate such communiqués along with the acumen. Yes, believe it or not, there's more to photography than brand loyalty.
Well, exactly so. Objectively, a camera is a camera, and there are certain aspects of each that some people find more appealing than others do. People become brand loyal because they like the way particular manufacturers approach the aspects they find useful or comfortable, but some people identify so much with a brand that they come to believe that the manufacturer is in tune with their thinking. When that happens, the potential for let-down becomes significant, and all that pent-up expectation can become a force to overthrow the old loyalty, at which point they either attach themselves to another brand or lose interest in the subject altogether. I think we've seen a bit of that going on here.

I don't much care who attaches themselves to which brand, but I've never had much time for zealots, in spite of the fact that I tend to stick with brands I trust, for one reason or another. A good grounding in science, philosophy or history teaches you the value of objectivity, so it's possible to be brand-loyal without becoming entrapped in a cult-like devotion.

As for feeling better about all this, isn't that what we all do, every day? Not to do so brings unhealthy thinking into people's lives, and that way lies trouble.
10-18-2012, 01:52 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
I mean in the end it's a CAMERA not the freakin holy grail, right?

(Well, unless it's a black Asahi SPII in mint condition, then it just might qualify as the holy grail, lol.)
[Groan] For me, I wish I'd never given up my ESII, even if it was to buy a K2DMD, which I still have, thirty years on.

The rather odd child-like enthusiasm some people have for brands like Apple (and I use their products, because I like the way they work, just like I do with Pentax) is fertile ground for psychologists, not to mention those who define their "coolness" by the "uncoolness" of such people. However, it's a symptom, not a disease in itself. At its heart is the craving for identity by association - not unlike teenagers lining up for days to see their favourite singers (not sure if many of the current crop can really use that description, but I'm older now, and still attached to the artists of my youth ).
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