[wildman]

On my way home (in "liberal" Minn by the way) on the freeway I saw this large full-sized billboard with the following message:

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"A vote for Obama is a vote for the destruction of our country.
Do your homework America"
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Nothing could have made more clear to me the yawning gap between my worldview and, I believe, many on the far Right.

This, to me, is not essentially a political statement but a religious one right out of the old testament -

-the "other" is not merely wrong or misinformed, or dupes but they are anathema, to be cursed and reviled. Politics is no longer a method of arriving at consensus but, rather, a holy war where the other side is not merely wrong but evil and therefore must be utterly destroyed root and branch.

This is Kristallnacht thinking.

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Last edited by wildman; 11-01-2012 at 07:29 AM.

[GeneV]

Or Mike Huckabee telling Christians they may go to hell for voting for Obama. http://www.examiner.com/article/mike-huckabee-warns-christians-vote-for-obama-and-go-to-hell Or the full page add in our local paper featuring Billy Graham and the "biblical" definition of marriage.

[les3547]

This is Kristallnacht thinking.

I hope you are wrong. Many times comparisons to Nazis in political forums are rightfully labeled hyperbole, but there are other chilling similarities to Nazi methods going on now. Because Nazi comparisons have often been misapplied doesn't mean we should ignore lessons we should've learned from one of the most studied events in history, studied because we wonder how decent people with the power to vote could voluntarily (enthusiastically even) elect Hitler and his team.

Two of the most obvious similarities to the Nazi situation are the propagandizing that's assisting the demonization of Obama and his supporters, and the willingness to employ underhanded means to achieve a desired end. There is a third similarity too.

There may be no state-run propaganda machine as the Nazis had, but there is a station that calls itself a "news station" devoted to spreading lies and misinformation the Romney campaign dreams up. By daily stirring fear and hatred in people who believe what this station says, it has managed to delude a significant percent of the masses, particularly among those who are narrowly or poorly educated. This effort is joined by thousands of editiorialists, bloggers, websites, radio and TV personalities, etc. who push the lies which in turn allows the lies to be supported by online "research" for personal discussions and forums like this. And then in terms of the willingness to use underhanded tactics, while the incessant lying should be enough to keep us up nights, there's something even nastier going on . . . voter suppression.

As for the third similarity to the Nazis, to me it is the most disturbing of all: the apparent passive acceptance of the abuses by the mainstream media. In the name of "fairness" (I suppose), mainstream media has been in large part giving a free pass to Romney and his team's dishonesty, voter suppression, the obstructionist congress . . . Where daily the lies and sabotage should be headline news on every news station and paper in the country, we see complaints largely relegated to editorials.

In my opinion, all that is what Americans should be afraid of, not what Obama hopes to do for America.

[gokenin]

So now all who oppose Obama are equal to Nazis ? Should we watch Fox News we "are narrowly or poorly educated" guess only the true intellectual giants watch MSNBC because you know that's completely unbiased in its reporting. That's right only the Republicans are accused of voter suppression even though the Florida attorney general is investigating mailing to registered Republicans telling them they are non eligible to vote as their citizenship is in question. Then again what would one expect from this forum of such open minded individuals ?

[jeffkrol]

So now all who oppose Obama are equal to Nazis ? Should we watch Fox News we "are narrowly or poorly educated" guess only the true intellectual giants watch MSNBC because you know that's completely unbiased in its reporting. That's right only the Republicans are accused of voter suppression even though the Florida attorney general is investigating mailing to registered Republicans telling them they are non eligible to vote as their citizenship is in question. Then again what would one expect from this forum of such open minded individuals ?

you miss the point that anyone who would "only" watch MSNBC are not much better.. If you ONLY watch fox statistically you are uninformed at best, dis-informed at worst.. 2 studies reflect this as a possible reality.. FACT..
Am I willing to ponder that the studies may be in error?.. OK....(quick talk to conserv. coworkers who watch Fox).. Nope.. study is valid..


A corollary study:

Less informed voters may be swayed by candidate's looks
October 26, 2012|By Lauren Swanson | KWCH 12 Eyewitness News

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(WICHITA, Kan.) — Voters who get most of their political news from TV may be more influenced by a candidate's looks than policies.

A study by political scientists at M-I-T finds voters who are not well-informed about issues, but see the candidates on TV often, are the most influenced by appearance.

The study was based on data from senate and governor's races in 2006. It asked some voters to rate candidates exclusively on appearance, then surveyed uninformed voters about who they supported.

Researchers found the candidate who was chosen as "better looking" by the first group, was often supported by the less informed voters.

Less informed voters may be swayed by candidate's looks - KWCH

That is worth pondering from multiple angles.............

[gokenin]

you miss the point that anyone who would "only" watch MSNBC are not much better)

Jeff as usual you miss the point if he had said that anyone that gets their political and news from a single source left or right cand be seen as ill informed then maybe I would actually give you credit however he clearly singles out Fox News viewers as the only ones who are poorly educated. I would like to ask however how many news sources you watch for you news and your newspapers are the unbiased in their opinions and reporting styles? Do you read and watch from both sides? I ask this of everyone on this forum do you view as much news as you can to attempt to actually gleam a sliver of the actual truth or accept one view of the truth?

[wildman]

So now all who oppose Obama are equal to Nazis ?

The signs speak for themselves.
Draw your own conclusion:

Germany 1943, America 2012

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Last edited by wildman; 12-05-2012 at 11:33 AM.

[pxpaulx]

Jeff as usual you miss the point if he had said that anyone that gets their political and news from a single source left or right cand be seen as ill informed then maybe I would actually give you credit however he clearly singles out Fox News viewers as the only ones who are poorly educated. I would like to ask however how many news sources you watch for you news and your newspapers are the unbiased in their opinions and reporting styles? Do you read and watch from both sides? I ask this of everyone on this forum do you view as much news as you can to attempt to actually gleam a sliver of the actual truth or accept one view of the truth?

I mostly read stuff online (anything linked from digg.com will get at least a brief review from my eyes). I was visiting my in-laws over the weekend, and they turned on Hannity (what news I do get from the television is from over the air broadcasts btw, so no access to the usual news channels). To the show's credit they at least had people representing the right and left. Beyond that, the right representatives were constantly talking over the left leaning people, with the occasional chuckles and pokes at them from the host. It was some of the most combative television I have ever watched - there wasn't arguing going on, just escalating loudness. It was so grating I'm not sure how anyone could stomach watching for more than a few minutes (I went to bed because I couldn't take it). I'm sure it happens on the liberal leaning shows as well. If you give an a$$hole and megaphone, they are still an a$$hole. Ultimately this country won't get anywhere as long as that is the kind of trash we are fed, and it seems as though it is only getting worse.

[jeffkrol]

Jeff as usual you miss the point if he had said that anyone that gets their political and news from a single source left or right cand be seen as ill informed then maybe I would actually give you credit however he clearly singles out Fox News viewers as the only ones who are poorly educated. I would like to ask however how many news sources you watch for you news and your newspapers are the unbiased in their opinions and reporting styles? Do you read and watch from both sides? I ask this of everyone on this forum do you view as much news as you can to attempt to actually gleam a sliver of the actual truth or accept one view of the truth?

Would you deny that Fox readers/viewers has a lesser propensity to read and ponder other sources (with the possible exception of the Obamacare creating Heritage foundation)??? Personally I have not found that to be true............

ANY one sided "research" leads to biased conclusions..
I've pulled links from red state to huffpo that I determine were either logically correct or of interest.. That I may have a slant is what would create a "discussion" or counter facts.. Unfortunately few have shown clear (yes personal choice) refutation to what I 'believe" (excluding the fiat/fed spending and taxing thing that both parties get wrong) is "correct"...........

As a side note: Summing up Romney.. even the most cursory investigation would leave one to NOT UNDERSTAND a clear position an ANYTHING.......nor a statement like "I believed that at the time" which is really telling to me.

FUNNY:

The US has added 1.1 million new millionaires since Barack Obama was elected president in 2008, according to a new survey of high-net-worth individuals.

Amid an election campaign that has been defined by fierce fights over the taxation of millionaires and accusations that Obama is anti-wealth, the so-called "1%" of the population grew by 29%, the equivalent of a thousand new millionaires per day, over the president's first three years in office. According to analyst WealthInsight, those high-net-worth individuals now hold assets worth $18.8tn – 34% of total US individual wealth, well above the global average of 29%.

"It doesn't really fit the campaign rhetoric that one side is against the rich and the other is for," said WealthInsight analyst Christopher Rocks. "The total number of millionaires is growing and will continue to grow whether Obama or [Mitt] Romney is elected."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/01/us-new-millionaires-obama

The worst financial crisis since the Great Depression had little impact on the ultra-wealthy. At the end of 2011, in the US, the super rich numbered 39,378 compared to 40,197 in 2007. Similarly, in 2011 the wealth of "ultras" was about $5.5tn, down from $5.6 tn in 2007.

Connecticut, which is home to many hedge-fund billionaires, experienced the fastest growth in ultra-rich people under Obama, rising 26%. The largest number of ultra-rich people were found in New York, with 4,363 people defined as ultra-rich. Texas came second with 3,828, according to WealthInsight.

"Politics is short-term," said Rocks. "The trend is clear – there are a lot more rich people."

Sooooooooooooo how does that "fit" w/ the rhetoric of the right?????

[lesmore49]

Politics in the US and other countries certainly seems, over the years to have become more polarized.

Also IMO, more extremists on both right and left seem to get their message out to the world. I do think few would argue that the internet allows all more ability to get their message out....including the extremists on both right and left. With freedoms we have to accept that both reasonable and unreasonable opinion will get out.

The fortunate thing is that many individuals have the ability to separate wheat from chaff.

[kswier]

To the show's credit they at least had people representing the right and left.

I would not give them too much credit for that (and it sounds like you didn't ). I think part of our problem is that we (and our "news channels") have turned everything into a battle of left vs. right (democrat vs. republican). Even when democrats and republicans agree on something, they will try to make it sound like there is a huge difference between them. I wish news organizations would realize that there are not two sides to every issue. Often the problems we face are very complex and require nuanced, well thought out, solutions.

The reason our nation is so polarized is because these our news organizations are out to make profit, and conflict is profitable (just think of reality TV shows). So they often proliferate political garbage instead of telling people what is really going on. For instance, when I watch the news I do not hear much about what leading economists thing the cost/benefit of reducing tax deductions is. Instead I hear the news organizations talk about what Romney said about reducing the number of tax deductions and what Obama said about Romney's plan. Since there is nobody to hold the politicians accountable, they can use their massive bank accounts to say whatever they want.

Sorry about the rant, but I really find the lack of journalism in our news organizations disappointing.

[lesmore49]

I agree with much of what you say, Kswier.

I used to work in the publishing industry and it's about making a profit. Profit largely comes through advertising sales...the better your demographics ...the more you can sell your advertising for...the more profit you make. But in order to build up your numbers...ie; readers, viewers, listeners....you have to attract them...cool, logical reason doesn't attract a lot...but controversy does.

All parties have their spin doctors who whack away trying to reduce the credibility of the opponent. What surprises me...although it shouldn't...is how ardent some of the individual party supporters become...IMO, they have fed right into their particular party 'line'.

[GibbyTheMole]

Or Mike Huckabee telling Christians they may go to hell for voting for Obama.

Wow. I work at a radio station that used to carry his 3 minute "news" program. I'm glad we dropped that douchenozzle from our programming lineup.

[reeftool]

I will just be very,very glad when this is all over. I hate to go on Facebook. All the absurd crap people are forwarding around, it's nuts. To an outsider, it must appear that the cast of Looney Tunes running everything.

[wildman]

I will just be very,very glad when this is all over.

------Amen