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11-05-2012, 06:20 AM | #16 |
Last edited by GeneV; 11-05-2012 at 07:48 AM. | |
11-05-2012, 10:31 AM | #17 |
In terms of actual news reporting, it's not acceptable to 'accept' a bias in one channel or another and just say 'well the viewers will go to the channel that reflects their views'. There should be a body that holds news outlets to account over innaccuracies and bias, and penalties for peddling distortion. I want as much transparency in the media as possible. Fox and MSNBC are both pretty transparent. You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to see that they are openly biased. They don't hide it. Fox and MSNBC are a reflection of society. They are a symptom of the problem. They are not the problem itself. The question is "Why does the majority of TV cable viewers in society choose to watch the two most openly biased news agencies"? | |
11-05-2012, 11:10 AM | #18 |
Fox and MSNBC are both pretty transparent. You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to see that they are openly biased. They don't hide it. Fox and MSNBC are a reflection of society. They are a symptom of the problem. They are not the problem itself. The question is "Why does the majority of TV cable viewers in society choose to watch the two most openly biased news agencies"? If a particular philosophy, say conservative or liberal, has advocates, then there is nothing unusual or wrong about programming that features people interpreting things according to one or other of the philosophies. It could be quite useful to have two quality channels devoted to the ideals of conservatism and liberalism so that people can better understand each point of view. However, while one-sidedness is fine, what isn't okay is dishonesty. If a show builds its case on lies, distortions, fear-mongering, fact omission, etc., then it fails even as opinion programming. In this respect, Fox and MSNBC are not equals and should not be lumped into the same category. Fox opinion is incessantly dishonest, lacking facts, and fallaciously reasoned, while MSNBC opinion is generally fact-based and logicially reasoned. As I've mentioned before, I don't think anyone should come to their own opinion by listening to others' opinions. Although I listen to a great variety of opinions, I know that my priority has to be to study the same facts that others are using to form opinions. | |
11-05-2012, 11:33 AM | #19 |
I want as much transparency in the media as possible. Fox and MSNBC are both pretty transparent. You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to see that they are openly biased. They don't hide it. Fox and MSNBC are a reflection of society. They are a symptom of the problem. They are not the problem itself. The question is "Why does the majority of TV cable viewers in society choose to watch the two most openly biased news agencies"? Top 10 TV Ratings | Top 10 TV Shows | Nielsen Quote: Fox and MSNBC are both pretty transparent. | |
11-05-2012, 01:38 PM | #20 |
However, while one-sidedness is fine, what isn't okay is dishonesty. If a show builds its case on lies, distortions, fear-mongering, fact omission, etc., then it fails even as opinion programming. In this respect, Fox and MSNBC are not equals and should not be lumped into the same category. Fox opinion is incessantly dishonest, lacking facts, and fallaciously reasoned, while MSNBC opinion is generally fact-based and logicially reasoned. I don't watch either and I don't care what they have to say. I couldn't even name the hosts of the shows.... They're pretty irrelevant. I know Alan Greenspan's wife has (or had) a show on MSNBC, but only because I have read some biographical work on him. Do you think his wife (Andrea Mitchell) has a bias when reporting on the economic recession? Maybe... Maybe not. I don't know. Don't care if she does. One of my few liberal friends was a big fan of Diane Sawyer and was arguing with a conservative about her (Sawyer) over drinks after she had done a Romney interview. The liberal liked her and the conservative thought she had a strong "liberal" media bias. When I mentioned that Diane was a second generation republican, a speech writer for and long time friend of President Nixon who privately defended him after Watergate and coordinated the Frost interviews in 1977, that information changed the opinions of both people at the table. That information changed the perception of bias. Nobody is forced to watch either FOX or MSNBC. If people are tuning in it is because they find value in, or they connect with the opinions and comments that they are hearing. The people watching FOX believe they are hearing the "truth" just as the people who watch MSNBC, but not because FOX/MSNBC says it is true. They believe it is true because it fits with what they want or need to believe. | |
11-05-2012, 03:14 PM | #21 |
Censorship (filtering) is wrong even if it allows for bias that we disagree with or we believe is factually incorrect..... just ask Galileo. Society and government often assume things to be true because they want them to be true, need them to be true, and ignore facts to the contrary. I don't watch either and I don't care what they have to say. I couldn't even name the hosts of the shows.... They're pretty irrelevant. I know Alan Greenspan's wife has (or had) a show on MSNBC, but only because I have read some biographical work on him. Do you think his wife (Andrea Mitchell) has a bias when reporting on the economic recession? Maybe... Maybe not. I don't know. Don't care if she does. One of my few liberal friends was a big fan of Diane Sawyer and was arguing with a conservative about her (Sawyer) over drinks after she had done a Romney interview. The liberal liked her and the conservative thought she had a strong "liberal" media bias. When I mentioned that Diane was a second generation republican, a speech writer for and long time friend of President Nixon who privately defended him after Watergate and coordinated the Frost interviews in 1977, that information changed the opinions of both people at the table. That information changed the perception of bias. I would bet any sum of money that if I asked a conservative they would say "MSNBC opinion is incessantly dishonest, lacking facts, and fallaciously reasoned, while FOX opinion is generally fact-based and logicially reasoned."..... That is to be expected. You are to the left and you will find more facts, logic, & reason on MSNBC, which is normal. I have two liberal friends who actually get mad just watching FOX. Same thing happens when conservatives watch MSNBC. People don't like to watch programs that challenge or contradict their own pre-established beliefs. People immediately assume that views that challenge their own are false. Politics is the new religion that people follow with blind faith. In case you think my opinion is majorly skewed, I would actually love it if an honest and reasonable conservative channel existed. That's because I don't believe either a liberal or conservative viewpoint, standing by itself, yields a good philosophy. I will offer an analogy. One philosophy about how to raise children, let's call it the Father philosophy, is that children need guidelines, limits set, and to learn how to take responsibility for their own lives. Another philosophy, the Mother philosophy, is that children need love, support, to be happy, and to have freedom to explore and discover. If either the Father or Mother philosophy alone dominates a household, there usually are clear signs of which philosophy isn't strong enough (or is too strong). The solution, BTW, isn't that Father and Mother compromise so there is a little Father and a little Mother (i.e., mediocrity), but rather the solution is that both influences need to be there in full force. In a way, conservatives are like the Father side of things, and liberals are like the Mother side. And just like in a family, if one side refuses to cooperate with the other, demanding it is his way or the highway, and even trying to eliminate the Mother influence altogether, that is going to result in a sick situation. Of course, there always seems to be people, fed up with the dysfunction, who blame both sides equally. It's like finding two people fighting, and blaming them both equally without taking the time to find out that one guy is trying to rob the other. Nobody is forced to watch either FOX or MSNBC. If people are tuning in it is because they find value in, or they connect with the opinions and comments that they are hearing. The people watching FOX believe they are hearing the "truth" just as the people who watch MSNBC, but not because FOX/MSNBC says it is true. They believe it is true because it fits with what they want or need to believe. | |
11-05-2012, 03:41 PM | #22 |
On a related note..................... How Fox News Created a New Culture of Idiots | Alternet Quote: Cable news has created an entirely new breed of blowhards -- and the style has infected banking and even the arts. Quote: ot everybody thinks they are hearing the "truth" when they check out opinion media . . . personally I think it is weak-minded to do so. But I would also say that nobody watches Fox News regularly unless they want to be deluded, or (like me) they want to observe the kind of stuff Fox News puts out in order to speak with authority if they choose to say that whatever Fox is serving up to its viewers, it isn't cogent, practical conservatism. W/ power comes great responsibility .. to be honest... | |
11-05-2012, 04:28 PM | #23 |
And conservatives make the same charges against liberals and networks like MSNBC. The hand fighting among liberals and conservatives can be pretty entertaining. In case you think my opinion is majorly skewed, I would actually love it if an honest and reasonable conservative channel existed. That's because I don't believe either a liberal or conservative viewpoint, standing by itself, yields a good philosophy. I will offer an analogy. Not everybody thinks they are hearing the "truth" when they check out opinion media . . . personally I think it is weak-minded to do so. But I would also say that nobody watches Fox News regularly unless they want to be deluded, or (like me) they want to observe the kind of stuff Fox News puts out in order to speak with authority if they choose to say that whatever Fox is serving up to its viewers, it isn't cogent, practical conservatism. | |
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