[seacapt]

Who has money to sock it away? Not me. I'm not making enough for that. I'll be working till I drop ...

Me too Mag , me to ...but a few years back to quote Jeff Foxworthy " I used ta could"

[magkelly]

I was told a few years ago that most people who have my illness don't live to be 85. More like 65-70 if they are very lucky and the kidneys don't go. Most people upon being told that probably would have been very dismayed but my honest reaction was one of relief. I can't afford to live to be my parent's age. If I do live that long I'm so totally screwed because I won't have much to retire on and I won't be in any shape to take care of myself. No kids to do it either. Last thing I want is to be 85-90 years old, sick, broke and homeless. Longevity I think is highly overrated, unless you're rich, laugh...

[reeftool]

The stock market has been predicted to drop for some time now but it's been up and down. I think the "fiscal cliff" looked very real to a lot of investors today and they cashed out. Some people are going to make a lot of money tomorrow. It may be a positive sign if it scares some of the Congressmen who have been causing the gridlock of the past year to think about the good of the country instead of letting the economy crash solely for revenge. As for me, most of my savings are in the bank right now and not invested. My accountant thinks I'm nuts. I'm going to wait a little longer.

[Just1MoreDave]

Gentlemen , I'm truely glad that you were able to stay in for the long haul or invest at extreme lows but lots of people couldn't afford to.
Now , I am getting a bit grey and my memory isn't what it used to be so I had to do a little research but the big drop happened during the very end of the "Bush presidency". One month prior to the elections to be precise. A pre election drop is not uncommon due to investment uncertainty but this one was exceptional due mainly to unprecidented lending institution problems. There was a glut of forclosures due to sub prime lending. Real estate values were going down and banks were not even making normal risk loans.Contrary to what some will say , a great deal of sub prime lending was if not directly attributable to at least influenced by Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac policy. For what its worth in my opinion there is a big difference between a well considered risk "sub prime" loan and flat out stupid but Federally gauranteed loan. So yes the stuff really hit the fan during the last four months of Bush's term and even though Fannie and Freddie were the work of the Dems , not Bush it is your perogative to blame him if you'd like. The market took another big hit imediately after Obama took office with several subsequent drops but yes it has climbed up slowly since in part due to federal money. Here is what I consider an informative and concise quick read on the subject- Stock Market Crash of 2008


All that being said the fact is that today the market took the biggest one day post election drop since the last time Obama was elect.
If you choose to blame it all on Germany , that also is your perogative but at least admit alot of people are hurting.

One thing to take from your research is that in the first half of 2008, the brilliant minds of Wall Street saw no issues on the horizon, even after some fairly alarming news. Just look at the geniuses at Bank of America, who bought Countrywide early in 2008. Then over the summer, maybe not so great. Then in September, oh, perhaps the entire system is just worthless paper. The stock market is not exactly brilliant at seeing the future or reacting to it correctly.

[Shamwow]

Over 2x spending more than any other president since Nixon.

Please provide backup to this claim.

[Ratmagiclady]

I was told a few years ago that most people who have my illness don't live to be 85. More like 65-70 if they are very lucky and the kidneys don't go. Most people upon being told that probably would have been very dismayed but my honest reaction was one of relief. I can't afford to live to be my parent's age. If I do live that long I'm so totally screwed because I won't have much to retire on and I won't be in any shape to take care of myself. No kids to do it either. Last thing I want is to be 85-90 years old, sick, broke and homeless. Longevity I think is highly overrated, unless you're rich, laugh...

Eh, I was expected to be dead by 25. Turns out I actually was, briefly, but apparently only 'mostly dead.' Got better. I apparently just didn't apply myself hard enough in my Goth years. What a poser. Still, I dunno about 85. Another fourty -odd years like this, and I'm liable to get cranky.

[Jasvox]

Eh, I was expected to be dead by 25. Turns out I actually was, briefly, but apparently only 'mostly dead.' Got better. I apparently just didn't apply myself hard enough in my Goth years. What a poser. Still, I dunno about 85. Another fourty -odd years like this, and I'm liable to get cranky.

reminds me of an old favorite...

You Tube

You Tube

Jason

[Medium FormatPro]

Please provide backup to this claim

File:US Public Debt Ceiling 1981-2010.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a part of it, but also please zoom out to see the entire Wiki article.

Another part of it can be found if one happens to IRS file using ole-fashioned paper and forms. It's that pie chart and figures located in the back of the 1040 source book. But it's missing something - according to various military leaders. It's called the cost of maintaining our military hardware to a certain level - of which it presenty is not at. It's also due to the undeclared wars in Iraq and Afganistan.

That our military hardware is falling apart at the seems. Barely enough fully operational aircraft for our carrier navy, and most definately not enough for the air force. Plans for future aircraft falling apart based of items such as the f35 and items like the f22. If there were a ground war we'd be needing a replacement to our current m1a1 quite fast.

Cost to bring the hardware back from all of the wear and tear from the "wars"... Guess how many Billion. But it won't be happening anytime soon.

[GeneV]

Gentlemen , I'm truely glad that you were able to stay in for the long haul or invest at extreme lows but lots of people couldn't afford to.
Now , I am getting a bit grey and my memory isn't what it used to be so I had to do a little research but the big drop happened during the very end of the "Bush presidency". One month prior to the elections to be precise. A pre election drop is not uncommon due to investment uncertainty but this one was exceptional due mainly to unprecidented lending institution problems. ......

I hope you are not blaming the crash of 2008 on pre-election jitters. The bubble was there and the crash was predicted by many and had very definite structural causes. Sub-prime loans were just part of the problem, and the federally guaranteed loans did not bring down the market. The private ones did. It is also difficult to separate cause from effect in the RE value bubble burst. The reason many subprime loans failed was that values did not increase, then the foreclosures made the problem worse. But we've rehashed that on numerous threads.

[pxpaulx]

The reason many subprime loans failed was that values did not increase, then the foreclosures made the problem worse. But we've rehashed that on numerous threads.

Not to mention unscrupulous lenders and builders...I remember looking at a house back then (probably 150% of its current value) and the builder was offering a 2 year mortgage payment paydown of over $1,000 a month! To offer something where you are expecting a buyer to increase their income by $1,000 within 2 years to cover that balloon of a monthly payment increase is downright predatory. Of course I also think if you bought in you were equally to blame. And that is here in Minnesota where housing values are about middle of the road for the country and are nowhere near the sky high prices on either of the coasts.

[Ratmagiclady]

reminds me of an old favorite...

L7 - Pretend We're Dead - YouTube

Jason

Yeah, that's one of my favorites still.. Probably dress the part a bit more now than I did then, I was like the Goth (when Goth was still punk: interestingly on another thread, Orson Scott Card is now apparently living in fear of 'Gothic-Punk's (tm) (Ah, the geeky version, terrifying right wing phobes still) among the riotgrrls.


Back then, it'd become safely non-trendy to look a lot like Siouxsie Sioux if you felt so moved. (And I really did make that look pretty good.) Do have some fond memories, though.

If I've lived to see the D-day of the end of the Religious Right's little quest for 'lebenschraum,' perhaps I'll be a smirky Goth again. Who knows.

[Winder]

Depends on how much stock you had in SWHC!

Hospital stocks also rallied on all the cattle being herded into the slaughterhouse by obamacare.

I bought Ruger at $6.xx a share back when he first got elected. I wish I had bought SWHC. I bought FORD after it was clear the auto industry was to big to fail for just over $2.xx a share. I really don't know that I am going to move anything. Nothing has changed. Democrat President and Senate and Republican House.

Healthcare is Nashville's biggest industry with HCA and NHC and dozen others all HQ'ed here. For months people here have been discussing the impact of RoBomney-care. Nobody has good idea, but we are seeing a lot of consolidation. Hospitals agreed to take lower rates for Medicare/Medicaid under the plan with the understanding that more people would be covered by the expansion and they would be treating fewer uninsured, but now that may not be the case. Now hospitals have agreed to take lower rates and there will still be millions of uninsured.

If I do anything in the next couple of months it will be to move some money into housing and residential construction. That industry has been on the bottom for the last 2 years and it looks like some strength is building for that industry. Prices are rising again, inventories are down, and mortgage rates are artificially low due to the FED's QE infinity. Residential construction could be on the upswing next year.

Anywhere the government enters the market they screw it up and there is a way to make money off of it.... Just look at Buffett.

[seacapt]

I hope you are not blaming the crash of 2008 on pre-election jitters. .

Of course not , that would be as naive as blaming it on Bush.

[jeffkrol]

Of course not , that would be as naive as blaming it on Bush.

All businesses left town yet????

On a side note one of our customers was planning on stopping building another assisted living unit IF Obama wins (apparently providing health care to employees pushed the "margin" down)

I'll keep you informed on it's progress or lack of.. (My bet, they build.. whining on the "smaller take" or cutting some other corners, they won't leave "money on the table")

They'll lick their wounds for awhile then move on.. like a good Capitalist..............

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

The stock market wasn't nearly so risky before the internet made everybody with a keyboard an investment broker. I don't invest in anything but gold anymore.

Me, I only invest in glass...