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11-22-2012, 08:43 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
When the coasts start to flood "we" may need that city (assuming it is built inland)...............
Too bad the Chinese can't build one of these "Ghost Cities" at Port-au-Prince.

11-22-2012, 09:44 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
When the coasts start to flood "we" may need that city (assuming it is built inland)...............
Heh. True that. Though, despite some people only seeing 'This is what's wrong with a planned economy' seem to have missed the point that the problem here isn't that the government encouraged building cities that are unneeded: it's that the income inequality means all those people can't *go* there. It's a market problem just the same as the housing bubble here, (a product of unfettered 'free market' abuses,) sprawl developers here in Georgia.

Just on a bigger scale, really. And you can be sure *this* country's got a city or three worth of properties people can't afford to buy, shopfronts people can't rent, etc etc.

Infrastructure projects can be very good investments for a country, ....but you do want them to be something that will be a lasting asset over time. If it's just about the profits, stuff like this happens.
11-22-2012, 10:33 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
There is no doubt there are a lot of people who made a lot of money doing something that never needed to be done, and with you economic model that is probably a good thing. Some people however think government has a responsibility to maximize it resources and ensure that the greatest good can be accomplished with the resources that are available.

The question is not whether or not some people profited from the "folly" of the Chinese government. The question is could the money and resources that were used to build empty cities have been used to improve the lives of hundreds of millions of people? Was building these cities a good use of resources?
It will be interesting to see what the situation will be once the USA's debt service to China gains more traction.
11-22-2012, 11:20 AM   #19
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I normally dislike yahoo news, but found this article applicable. It looks like Alaska has managed to build a harbor and airport that are mostly unused. There may be more going on than was discussed in the article, but it looks like the US has its share of building unwanted infrastructure as well.

Alaskan town home to airport with no planes and harbor with no road | The Sideshow - Yahoo! News

I think infrastructure can be a great investment, but you have to build infrastructure that people want, and you have to build it in a smart way.

11-22-2012, 12:02 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
I think of ancient Egypt, where the pharaos would engage in massive building projects. Akhenaten had a whole new royal city built, all new temples for the new religion, and by the time he died all of that was abandoned.

From the distance of time, what was that all about, economically speaking? IMO this gets at the basic relationship between economics and culture.
Egypt was an extremely interesting culture and the brief rule of Akhenaten and his son Tutankhamun probably the most interesting. The more we find out, the more bizarre is seems.
11-22-2012, 12:18 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by kswier Quote
I normally dislike yahoo news, but found this article applicable. It looks like Alaska has managed to build a harbor and airport that are mostly unused. There may be more going on than was discussed in the article, but it looks like the US has its share of building unwanted infrastructure as well.
No doubt our government (state and federal) piss away billions a year, but the scale of waste in China is staggering.
11-23-2012, 09:07 AM   #22
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Was that stimulus money? They spent over a million and a half here finishing a railroad bridge on a line that was abandoned many years ago.

Last edited by Parallax; 11-23-2012 at 11:44 AM.
11-23-2012, 11:33 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Egypt was an extremely interesting culture and the brief rule of Akhenaten and his son Tutankhamun probably the most interesting. The more we find out, the more bizarre is seems.

Well, the reason that pharoah moved the whole city was because he was basically trying to convert Egypt to monotheism, with himself as god-king: he felt the need to move his capitol because that was how to cut the traditional religion (and priesthood) out of the loop, and if he'd had his way, memory, to whatever degree possible.

Partly because the priesthood of Amun has something of a hold on the dynastic matters, so Akhenaten wanted to basically supplant everything by identifying himself with a single, unassailable power.

Given Egypt's material culture, he had to find a way to try and over-write all that material culture, hence it was kind of a big execrcise in iconoclasm. To try and erase the past, basically.

01-14-2013, 08:51 AM   #24
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Beijing's air pollution: Blackest day | The Economist

The opposite of ghost cities. Beijing's air pollution is probably the worst in the world. You have to wonder how much long-term damage is being done to the population due to long-term exposure to pollutants. The pictures are like something out of a science fiction movie.
01-14-2013, 07:28 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The opposite of ghost cities. Beijing's air pollution is probably the worst in the world
Then you haven't been to places such as West Virginia or (in general) Western Pennylvania. There are so many coal power plants in West Virginia that the air has the same exact toxic effect as that found in China. -And the water is worse. But many forget that the main river in the state of West Virginia is the Kanawha, that also feeds into the Ohio and then the Mississippi, eventually the Gulf of Mexico and all. One can even do a water test att eh very end of the Mississippi and see the direct results of coal power plants from way up river back in Wrst Virginia. So now we're also talking about water that is beyond purification that goes to about twenty percent of all of america.
01-14-2013, 08:06 PM   #26
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I'm just glad to live in a nation that doesn't waste billions on pork, aren't you? I wonder where the Chinese came up with such ridiculous plans?
01-15-2013, 06:31 AM   #27
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Thread closed due to digression into political discussion.
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