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11-26-2012, 07:57 PM   #1
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lord and savior?

Definitely not mine.



11-26-2012, 08:01 PM   #2
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Well, the whole concept of a "lord and saviour "is kind of bogus to a lot of people. So you probably won't get a lot of argument there.
11-26-2012, 09:25 PM   #3
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I googled this and apparently America has their undies in knots over it. He's a fricking comedian for crying out loud. Who cares.

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11-27-2012, 04:14 AM   #4
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Coming from Jamie Foxx, or any other celebrity, means very very very little.

No need to get worked up about anything.

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11-27-2012, 05:06 AM   #5
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That's quite an odd statement to make - but hey, whatever floats his boat...
11-27-2012, 09:09 AM   #6
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Yup seems like most of his constituents have unrealistic ideas. College girls and soccer moms want to hump him , some want to elevate him to superhuman status and everyone wants a free Obamaphone
11-27-2012, 09:37 AM   #7
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RE Jamie Foxx: I think his remark was appreciation for Obama flavored with a pinch of sarcasm about people's unrealistic expectations of Obama.

Why are (some) people's expectations unrealistic? IMO, it is due to a genuine belief that Obama is a great man (which we probably won't decide for sure for another 100 years) combined with naïveté about just how much the office of the President can achieve.

Why this thread? Because there are also plenty of people who hate Obama, though when they are asked to provide a list of facts (and not Fox News "facts") that would justify such hatred one hears nothing of substance. Of course, mindless hatred is often a sign a great person is pushing for change, so there's that.

11-27-2012, 11:04 AM   #8
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Les, what exactly has Obama done to make your life better today than it was 4 years ago? Please don't cut /paste that list you've put up in the past.
11-27-2012, 11:27 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by les3547 Quote
Why this thread? Because there are also plenty of people who hate Obama...
Exactly. And what they fail to understand is the consequences of hate,
which when it runs its course, inevitably ends badly for everyone.
11-27-2012, 11:42 AM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by les3547 Quote
Why this thread? Because there are also plenty of people who hate Obama, though when they are asked to provide a list of facts (and not Fox News "facts") that would justify such hatred one hears nothing of substance. Of course, mindless hatred is often a sign a great person is pushing for change, so there's that.
And if not Fox News then which should we believe? CNN? MSNBC? NBC? CBS? ABC? BBC? No liberal bias on those stations eh? Why not Pravda? The Puffington? Liberals seem to think they are center of the road don't they?

QuoteQuote:
Les, what exactly has Obama done to make your life better today than it was 4 years ago? Please don't cut /paste that list you've put up in the past.
With a record 46 million now on food stamps he's at least helped them hasn't he?
11-27-2012, 12:14 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
Les, what exactly has Obama done to make your life better today than it was 4 years ago? Please don't cut /paste that list you've put up in the past.
I think a major source of disagreement is due to people arguing from a macroview against people looking at things from a microview. We all know that both perspectives are necessary, but that at times one view temporarily needs to take priority. A small company can rely on bookkeeping by hand, and whoever is responsible for that needs to be skilled in the details of keeping records that way. If the company grows a little at a time so that tweaks to the system are all that’s needed to keep in step with growth, then the microview continues to suffice for a bookkeeper.

But if the company suddenly takes off and becomes far more complicated, then an entirely new computerized system becomes necessary. At that time the macroview needs to be the top priority until the new system is implemented. Of course, people who only understand how to keep physical books have to learn computer accounting, some may even lose their jobs if they refuse to see the bigger picture and insist on looking only at how things affect them.

Similarly, every so often people outgrow their government. When we started the US nobody foresaw how our society would grow and change. Certain government principles seem eternal, but others were only relevant to current conditions. When the “system” needs to adapt to how human consciousness is evolving (and consequently human systems), that calls for a leader who sees macro enough to guide the country toward a more fitting system. This type of leader, when he or she shows up, helps us progress, which is why we now label them “progressives.” In opposition to that are those who are affected negatively by change, people who have to retool or learn new ways (such as living without slaves), and people who are scared because they are too shortsighted to see where the change is headed or why it will eventually be better for everyone.

To more directly answer your question, what Obama is doing for me is leading us to a more inclusive society, and I can see that will result in a richer, more productive, and safer society overall. If I have to sacrifice personally now to ensure that future generations have it better, then I am proud to be living in a time when I can join the ranks of people who have payed it forward, who've sacrificed for all the great stuff I now take for granted.

Last edited by les3547; 11-27-2012 at 12:34 PM.
11-27-2012, 12:17 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
Exactly. And what they fail to understand is the consequences of hate,
which when it runs its course, inevitably ends badly for everyone.
The most telling thing for me is their inability to provide rational explanations for their hate.
11-27-2012, 12:31 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnInIndy Quote
And if not Fox News then which should we believe? CNN? MSNBC? NBC? CBS? ABC? BBC? No liberal bias on those stations eh? Why not Pravda? The Puffington? Liberals seem to think they are center of the road don't they?
If one doesn't know how to research then yes, one is most definitely at the mercy of spin, bias, and propagandists from all variety of sources.


QuoteOriginally posted by JohnInIndy Quote
With a record 46 million now on food stamps he's at least helped them hasn't he?
Food stamps are certainly not what Obama wants. But the fix he has in mind is to eliminate conditions that result in foodstamps being needed, and not just leave everybody who needs them without food. People never get this approach to things unless they are able step out of the self-centered, me-only view.

Last edited by les3547; 11-27-2012 at 10:29 PM.
11-27-2012, 12:44 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
Yup seems like most of his constituents have unrealistic ideas. College girls and soccer moms want to hump him , some want to elevate him to superhuman status and everyone wants a free Obamaphone]
Really? Why don't his supporters post these claims about him being a messiah?

A comedian makes a blasphemous statement, along with many other outrageous statments, and somehow this is speaking for tens of millions of voters?
11-27-2012, 12:50 PM   #15
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Did Social Security and Medicare Crash the Economy? | The Exchange - Yahoo! Finance
QuoteQuote:
The talk in Washington these days might lead people to think that the main cause of the economic downturn is the Social Security and Medicare benefits being paid to retirees. After all, we have people from both parties giving us assurances that cuts to these programs are an essential part of any budget deal. This is the sort of topsy-turvy thinking that passes as conventional wisdom in Washington.

In case it's necessary to remind people, our economy plunged due to the collapse of a Wall Street fueled housing bubble. The loss of demand from the collapse of the housing bubble both led to a jump in the unemployment rate from which we have still not fully recovered and also the large deficits of the last five years.

Prior to collapse of the bubble, the budget deficits were quite modest. In 2007 the deficit was just 1.7 percent of GDP, a level that can be sustained indefinitely. Furthermore, the Congressional Budget Office projected that the deficits would remain small for the near future, with the scheduled expiration of the Bush tax cuts in 2011 projected to push the budget into surplus.

The reason that we suddenly got large deficits was the economic downturn which caused tax revenue to plummet and increased spending on programs like unemployment insurance. We also had temporary measures that included tax cuts like the payroll tax holiday and various spending programs that further raised the deficit.

However these stimulus measures were temporary and were quite explicitly designed to boost the economy. Had it not been for the downturn, they would not have occurred. There is very little by way of permanent changes from the pre-recession tax and spending policy that would raise the budget deficits from the low levels that had been projected in 2008. This means that the story of current deficits is the story of the collapsed housing bubble.
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