[Blue]

Not good enough,
Why did she have them? And why wernt they locked up in a secure vault?

Maybe they were locked in a vault. That is where my pistols are when I am not packing them. However, if the punk was willing to kill his mother, do you think killing a police officer would be an issue for him?

[causey]

They could destroy all the drugs in the world, but there would soon be drugs available again.

You're making an excellent case for legalizing all drugs. (I hear heroin is as socially safe as it is tasty.)

[ihasa]

No. That's wrong. They can be slowed down but not stopped.

NYC has the Sullivan Act. So you mean to tell me there are no shootings? How come crime rates are lower in states that allow OC?

Because many of them are very rural. And doesn't NYC actually compare pretty favourably to other cities in violent crime? Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ihasa]

I will agree with the majority on this thread (I think?) that a knee-jerk gun control clamp down isn't the answer to shootings like this. The answer is to look - deeply - into exactly what is happening with these young people who snap and repeat what seems to be a familiar pattern of mass murder followed by suicide. There may be gun control loopholes which need to be addressed, but that shouldn't be the starting point, and should be dealt with rationally based on the evidence. But there is obviously something sick in these people's minds - what causes it? (Is it cultural?) Why isn't it detected? (Do we look the other way when people close to us are struggling with mental health issues?)

[Medium FormatPro]

The perp on the case definately had some issues.

So here are a few items to think about...


Anyone here old enough to remember the many, many state run (and also federal ones) institutions; most of which got phased out in about the 70's or so? And how many of those types of facilities exist today? Most of the severly mentally ill were forced into the streets.

Yet the same happens for the most part throughout america today. Unless one has one of the best healthcare programs in america; then one doesn't have much in the way of one would ever need the benefits of mental health coverage. To almost all of america that adds up to about one months worth of admitted mental health coverage. After that one would be outpatient - and very limited outpatient - and under meds which btw most deficately do not solve the problem.

And all of that will not change anytime soon. As well as the other issues around this particular case that will also not change much, if at all.

[lammie200]

...Unless one has one of the best healthcare programs in america; then one doesn't have much in the way of one would ever need the benefits of mental health coverage...

Do we have one the best? We must because our rate is going to increase by 24.6% next month. There was a similar increase about 12 months ago. No health issues, no pre-exisitng conditions, only regular check-ups in the last few years. We have to shuffle plans and drop benefits to find something that will keep our rate at a level that we can afford. Not even sure we can do it this time.

I think that this thread touches on the multitude of interrelated problems that exist in the USA right now. Not taking care of the mentally ill, poor enforcement of current gun control laws, value systems that have eroded due to greedy entertainers and the media, etc. There is nothing that we can do except strive to be better citizens and parents. That has to happen from the ground up because relying on our government and industries is futile.

I am a clinical social worker, and I went to Newtown this afternoon to volunteer for the families of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

At 3:15 pm, I was in the fire house, where the parents of the children who had not been accounted for had gathered.
...I then watched in horror as Governor Malloy came in and gave them the news that their kids, who until then were considered missing, were now presumed dead...

...Some were stunned in silence, others broke down, sobbing and screaming...

While it is difficult for me to imagine everything that has happened, as a parent I can imagine the overwhelming grief that those that lost their children have suffered. It breaks my heart.

[seacapt]

I'm not going to get into the gun control debate here . You all know where I stand . I will say that yesterday I had to go to the college to get something from my lab and when I pulled into the lot and saw the flags at half mast I suddenly had thoughts of little boys who wanted to be Spiderman and little girls with pony tails and Twinckle Toes sneakers.It made me break down for a bit.
Why don't people see that a parent's #1 job is to teach their kids right from wrong? Regardless of parents religious beliefs or lack there of the Ten Comandments are a great set of rules for a happy , safe and productive society. It seems today there are a billion excuses for bad behavior and evil acts but there is little in the way of consequence .Parents seem to turn a blind eye to their kids bad behavior some just don't care and others allmost seem to encourage.
Kids text instead of talk , they will if left to it spend endless hours with violent video games, they watch shows like Criminal Minds . They are being desensitized and loosing touch with the benefits of a healthy socity . As they become young adults and have to function in society many simply don't have the tools required.
Look at the guy who shot Gabby Giffords. He had been arrested and released for drugs several times ,was kicked out of a community college for threatening behavior and was making sacrifices at a satanic alter in his parent's back yard yet there were no real consequences for him not even from his parents.
Folks I don't claim to know all the answers but I do know that parents need to teach their children right from wrong , admit when they screw up and correct them and show them by example a positive way to live in society.

[lammie200]

...Folks I don't claim to know all the answers but I do know that parents need to teach their children right from wrong , admit when they screw up and correct them and show them by example a positive way to live in society.

+1.

If I were the kid's father that killed these people I would (at the very least) take the money that he was responsible for paying in alimony, child support, the college education, the grad school education, as well as the proceeds from selling his ex-wife's house, etc., and give it to the families of the survivors. After it is all divvied up it might not amount to much for the families, but at least it gives the impression that he is accepting some responsibility.

[ihasa]

We do not know what efforts the shooter's parents did - or didn't - make to raise their kid right. We do not know to what extent they battled to get their kid back on the right track, nor how fully their son covered up what presumably must have been a tormented and out of touch inner world. There is an issue with parenting in a lot of criminality, but with these lone shooters, it seems more like a failure to spot when someone's 'teenage issues' - moodiness, secretiveness, etc - tip over into more serious mental health problems.

[les3547]

We do not know what efforts the shooter's parents did - or didn't - make to raise their kid right. We do not know to what extent they battled to get their kid back on the right track, nor how fully their son covered up what presumably must have been a tormented and out of touch inner world. There is an issue with parenting in a lot of criminality, but with these lone shooters, it seems more like a failure to spot when someone's 'teenage issues' - moodiness, secretiveness, etc - tip over into more serious mental health problems.

I was just about to post the same thoughts. I don't think we can conclude anything about the child's upbringing yet (there are indications he had loving parents). Nobody does child rearing perfect, most of us have some issues of our own that affect how we treat our children, often because our own parents weren't the best at child rearing and left their mark on us. The vast majority of people with imperfect upbringing do not turn into mass murderers.

[les3547]

I'm sure this will irritate the crap out of (current) NRA leadership, and plenty of others too, but a push is about to be made to ban "assault weapons." (Please, no more lectures about what an assault weapon, or clip, is.) The objective is to ban hi caliber semi-auto rifles and large capacity magazines, the intent being to restrict how much shooting with big, powerfully-propelled hunks of lead can be done in a short time. If we can't eliminate the urge to mass murder, at least we can try to limit how efficiently one can execute the urge.

Feinstein to introduce assault weapons ban bill

(CNN) – Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California said Sunday the president will soon have legislation "to lead on" in the gun control debate, announcing she will introduce a bill next month in the Senate to place a ban on assault weapons.

"We'll be prepared to go, and I hope the nation will really help," Feinstein said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

The senator said she'll introduce the bill when Congress reconvenes in January and the same legislation will also be proposed in the House of Representatives.

"We're crafting this one. It's being done with care. It'll be ready on the first day," she said, adding that she'll soon announce the House authors.

"It will ban the sale, the transfer, the importation, and the possession. Not retroactively, but prospectively. It will ban the same for big clips, drums or strips of more than 10 bullets," she said. "There will be a bill."

Gun rights legislation has gained renewed attention since Friday's deadly elementary school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, that left 20 students and six adults dead.

Many lawmakers and politicians have called for stricter gun control laws at the federal level, including a revisit to the 1994 former assault weapons ban that expired in 2004 but has yet to be reinstated.

Feinstein, who helped champion the 1994 legislation, said she and her staff have looked at the initial bill and tried to "perfect it."

"We believe we have (perfected it). We exempt over 900 specific weapons that will not fall under the bill, but the purpose of this bill is to get … 'weapons of war' off the street of our cities," she said.

The senator added she believes President Barack Obama will support the legislation. As a presidential candidate in 2008, Obama said he would support such a ban, but he has been criticized for failing to work toward tighter gun control laws since taking office.

After Friday's shooting, however, the president signaled a change in policy could soon be in place.

"We're going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics," Obama said in his weekly address Saturday, echoing remarks he made Friday after the tragedy.

Feinstein on Sunday praised the assault weapons ban of 1994 for surviving its entire 10-year term and predicted a successful future for her upcoming bill.

"I believe this will be sustained as well," she added. "You know, all of the things that society regulates, but we can't touch guns? That's wrong."

[Medium FormatPro]

value systems that have eroded due to greedy

I'm going to pull that one out of context.

For general reference... Compare america to any other G20 country. Directly effecting most citizens, not one country has it's "people" working as much (as in hours) for so little. The average american works far in excess of some 50++ hours a week - and for what. america also has some very trivial benefits that aren't much more than a joke.

Also the average two parent family typically has both adults working; not because the second actually has a want to work, but a genuine need. So who raises the children??

It wouldn't be much of a comparison to have any nmber of children raised by; both parents who work versus a parent that is able to spend more quality time with their children.

[riff]

One thing is certain to me, endless discussion about gun control accomplishes nothing. Yet that is exactly what every tragedy spawns.

What are the root causes that make a person feel so disenfranchised to even thing of such actions much less carry them out?
Is the USA a place where a person with average resources and average abilities can thrive.
What about person with below average resources and below average abilities.
Does corporate USA spawn violence at home and abroad. How many people died here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/political-religious-discussion/208229-too...-disgrace.html
Are working Moms a good idea.
What are the responsibilities of the news and entertainment giants. Is crap like the Expendables or Halo series good for society.

A few things I wonder about.

[Blue]

I'm sure this will irritate the crap out of (current) NRA leadership, and plenty of others too, but a push is about to be made to ban "assault weapons." (Please, no more lectures about what an assault weapon, or clip, is.) The objective is to ban hi caliber semi-auto rifles and large capacity magazines, the intent being to restrict how much shooting with big, powerfully-propelled hunks of lead can be done in a short time. If we can't eliminate the urge to mass murder, at least we can try to limit how efficiently one can execute the urge.

How about no more lectures on media boloney like "hi caliber" semi-autos. First of, the 5.56 Nato isn't a "high caliber" as you put. What does "hi caliber" mean? It is media boloney is what it is. The punk had 2 pistols in a gun free zone in a gun controled state. On top of that, the media seems to be putting out conflicting reports which is standard operating procedures. You also ignore the fact that this kind evil has been gong on for nearly 100 years so how about banning mass murder?

These get left out of the time lines by most media

Survivors Recall 1927 Michigan School Massacre : NPR


Poe Elementary School bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Miracle of Cokeville


Oklahoma City bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1907826/posts

2 of the 5 examples involved former LEO or off-duty LEO.

[les3547]

How about no more lectures on media boloney like "hi caliber" semi-autos. First of, the 5.56 Nato isn't a "high caliber" as you put. What does "hi caliber" mean? It is media boloney is what it is. The punk had 2 pistols in a gun free zone in a gun controled state. On top of that, the media seems to be putting out conflicting reports which is standard operating procedures. You also ignore the fact that this kind evil has been gong on for nearly 100 years so how about banning mass murder?

These get left out of the time lines by most media

Survivors Recall 1927 Michigan School Massacre : NPR


Poe Elementary School bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Miracle of Cokeville


Oklahoma City bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1907826/posts

2 of the 5 examples involved former LEO or off-duty LEO.

As predicted, plenty of people will be irritated at any sort of restriction on gun ownership . . . yet the majority of Americans want it. I hope this time we are able to stop the minority's tyranny.