Another Shooting

lammie200 · 12-20-2012, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

That's a good suggestion, but the problem is that they don't always know themselves. When the assault weapons ban that was enacted in 1994 was about to expire in 2004 and Congress was voting on whether or not to renew it Dianne Feinstein was interviewed. The law determined whether some weapons were illegal or not based one whether they had certain characteristics or features, some functional and some cosmetic. Bayonet lug, pistol grip (on a rifle), etc. She was asked by a reporter about a couple of the features that would make a gun illegal; not the name of them, but what they actually were or did. After answering wrong a few times she finally said "Oh, I don't know!" and walked away. She had voted to make something illegal based on criteria she knew virtually nothing about.

(I believe she was also the one that said with reference to the Obamacare bill "let's just get this thing passed so we can see what's in it". Or was that Pelosi? Hard to tell the difference.)

Yeah, it's a sound bite world that we live in and politicians are some of the quickest to seize upon them for the emotional charge even if inaccurate. I saw that Huckabee proclaimed that 27 innocent lives were lost in the Newtown tragedy. Evidently he considered the killer one of them. Maybe he was just being generous while scolding the nation for expelling god from schools? God-like I suppose.

Parallax · 12-20-2012, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by lammie200

Maybe he was just being generous while scolding the nation for expelling god from schools? God-like I suppose.

Makes you wonder which is a bigger threat, doesn't it? A psycho with a gun, or a politician with a microphone.

lammie200 · 12-20-2012, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

Makes you wonder which is a bigger threat, doesn't it? A psycho with a gun, or a politician with a microphone.

Not much into guns myself, but I would say politicians.

ihasa · 12-20-2012, 04:46 PM

Deffo a politician with a mike. Especially if the psychos with guns are the ones listening to him

Parallax · 12-20-2012, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by ihasa

Deffo a politician with a mike. Especially if the psychos with guns are the ones listening to him

Okay, I'll give credit where it's due. Good one!

Winder · 12-20-2012, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by Nesster

True enough.
But leaving aside the rifle for hunting/sport, the shotgun, and the pistol... we can't go our and buy a functioning anti-aircraft gun or one of those machine guns they shot out of helicopters in Vietnam, for example. So there's also a definitional problem: can you bear just any arm you desire, or not? And if not, how do you define the limits? Like pornography, we can't just say we know it when we see it. This is how we end up with ridiculous 'assault weapon' definitions (with input from the manufacturers, no doubt), trying to define a limitation.

I believe there are more fully automatic weapons currently owned by private citizens in the country than by law enforcement. In 80+ years there have been 2 cases where a private citizen who was licensed to own a fully automatic weapon has used it to kill someone. I think the number is close to 150,000 real functioning machine guns that are owned by private individuals.

Even if the law allowed for the private ownership of an anti-aircraft gun, nobody would own one. Any AA gun that was capable of actually tracking and hitting an airplane in this day and age would cost more than a house. Take an M61 Vulcan as an example. It is old (Vietnam era) enough that it can be picked up relatively cheap $6.x million and only cost $4.00 per bullet. It has a rate of fire of 6,600 rounds per-minute ..... or $26,400.00 per minute to operate. This cost does not include another $15 million for the tracking computer and mechanical platform needed to actually use the gun. Economics actually takes care of most things. The reason assault rifles account for only .002% of all murders is that there are many cheaper options that can do much more damage. Criminals typically don't invest much money into a gun that they know they will need to destroy or dump to keep from getting caught.

Explosive are a little different simply because anyone with half a brain and some common (legal) ingredients can make very devastating explosives. This is why Afghanistan is such a problem.... not because the Taliban have $24 million machine guns. Way more troops are killed by IED than gun fire. For $50.00 you could make a FAE that would flatten an office building or a store the size of a Walmart.

Blue · 12-20-2012, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by lammie200

Admittedly I am not an expert on firearms. The article labeled it a .25 caliber semi-automatic handgun. Perhaps there is only one type and that is what you are referring to? I would, however, recommend that if the interested parties want voters to understand the differences between firearms that they think should, or should not be, banned or regulated, they educate the constituents on the terminology and types of firearms in question. Then again, the tactic of obfuscation is a handy tool for hidden agendas.

That is hard to do when the media don't know their collective butts from a hot buttered roll. Frankly, the hidden agenda is to ban everything anyway. However, Parallax nailed it. The pistol cartridge is known as the .25 automatic colt pistol, .45 automatic colt pistol. The 9mm is really 9mm parabellum a.k.a. 9mm Luger a.k.a. 9x19. To confuse things some of these rounds can also be used in some revolvers. However, the automatic you were thinking of is technically fully automatic as in heavy, medium, and light machine guns and machine pistols. True assault rifles have fully automatic or select fire capability. AR's do not nor do AK's sold to civilians. The exception being something like a pre 1986 made Thompson with a Federal license to possess it.

graphicgr8s · 12-20-2012, 09:17 PM

This is all I want for Christmas

You Tube

**arnold** · 12-20-2012, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

This is all I want for Christmas

Obliterating a Fish In A Barrel: Mythbusters - YouTube

You won't be eating much in that case, the fish is just the head left.

JohnInIndy · 12-21-2012, 08:01 AM - **1 Like**

You Tube

jeffkrol · 12-21-2012, 11:44 AM

NRA Press Conference Displays Political Problems - Business Insider

Quote:

Earlier today, the NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre advocated for putting an armed police officer in every school during a rather stunning press conference.

Whatever your thoughts on the merits of the NRA's idea of a fix, it also doesn't quite line up with any political ideology. Liberals want more gun control, and fiscal conservatives won't like the idea of spending billions of dollars on armed security guards at every school.

Read more: NRA Press Conference Displays Political Problems - Business Insider

Blue · 12-21-2012, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

NRA Press Conference Displays Political Problems - Business Insider

Read more: NRA Press Conference Displays Political Problems - Business Insider

So a kindergarten drawing is the basis of the gun ban lobby complaint? Or is that from 6th grade math class?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Hi-Speed Shooting vs Single Frame Shooting?	Kieron	Pentax K-r	14	08-13-2012 03:31 PM
Which mode are you? Single shooting or continuous shooting?	RonakG	Photographic Technique	39	03-06-2011 02:08 PM
Yet another 'Shooting Stick' to consider.	Michaelina2	Pentax Camera and Field Accessories	10	11-11-2009 07:29 AM
Another "Advise on shooting a Wedding" thread.	vievetrick	Photographic Technique	12	10-28-2008 10:52 AM
Shooting the photographer shooting my sons engagement photos	skinja	Post Your Photos!	13	07-04-2008 12:14 PM

12-20-2012, 04:21 PM	#676
lammie200 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Francisco Photos: Albums Posts: 1,033	Originally posted by Parallax That's a good suggestion, but the problem is that they don't always know themselves. When the assault weapons ban that was enacted in 1994 was about to expire in 2004 and Congress was voting on whether or not to renew it Dianne Feinstein was interviewed. The law determined whether some weapons were illegal or not based one whether they had certain characteristics or features, some functional and some cosmetic. Bayonet lug, pistol grip (on a rifle), etc. She was asked by a reporter about a couple of the features that would make a gun illegal; not the name of them, but what they actually were or did. After answering wrong a few times she finally said "Oh, I don't know!" and walked away. She had voted to make something illegal based on criteria she knew virtually nothing about. (I believe she was also the one that said with reference to the Obamacare bill "let's just get this thing passed so we can see what's in it". Or was that Pelosi? Hard to tell the difference.) Yeah, it's a sound bite world that we live in and politicians are some of the quickest to seize upon them for the emotional charge even if inaccurate. I saw that Huckabee proclaimed that 27 innocent lives were lost in the Newtown tragedy. Evidently he considered the killer one of them. Maybe he was just being generous while scolding the nation for expelling god from schools? God-like I suppose.

12-20-2012, 04:23 PM	#677
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by lammie200 Maybe he was just being generous while scolding the nation for expelling god from schools? God-like I suppose. Makes you wonder which is a bigger threat, doesn't it? A psycho with a gun, or a politician with a microphone.

12-20-2012, 04:29 PM	#678
lammie200 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Francisco Photos: Albums Posts: 1,033	Originally posted by Parallax Makes you wonder which is a bigger threat, doesn't it? A psycho with a gun, or a politician with a microphone. Not much into guns myself, but I would say politicians.

12-20-2012, 04:46 PM	#679
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	Deffo a politician with a mike. Especially if the psychos with guns are the ones listening to him

12-20-2012, 04:59 PM	#680
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by ihasa Deffo a politician with a mike. Especially if the psychos with guns are the ones listening to him Okay, I'll give credit where it's due. Good one!

12-20-2012, 05:43 PM	#681
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Nesster True enough. But leaving aside the rifle for hunting/sport, the shotgun, and the pistol... we can't go our and buy a functioning anti-aircraft gun or one of those machine guns they shot out of helicopters in Vietnam, for example. So there's also a definitional problem: can you bear just any arm you desire, or not? And if not, how do you define the limits? Like pornography, we can't just say we know it when we see it. This is how we end up with ridiculous 'assault weapon' definitions (with input from the manufacturers, no doubt), trying to define a limitation. I believe there are more fully automatic weapons currently owned by private citizens in the country than by law enforcement. In 80+ years there have been 2 cases where a private citizen who was licensed to own a fully automatic weapon has used it to kill someone. I think the number is close to 150,000 real functioning machine guns that are owned by private individuals. Even if the law allowed for the private ownership of an anti-aircraft gun, nobody would own one. Any AA gun that was capable of actually tracking and hitting an airplane in this day and age would cost more than a house. Take an M61 Vulcan as an example. It is old (Vietnam era) enough that it can be picked up relatively cheap $6.x million and only cost $4.00 per bullet. It has a rate of fire of 6,600 rounds per-minute ..... or $26,400.00 per minute to operate. This cost does not include another $15 million for the tracking computer and mechanical platform needed to actually use the gun. Economics actually takes care of most things. The reason assault rifles account for only .002% of all murders is that there are many cheaper options that can do much more damage. Criminals typically don't invest much money into a gun that they know they will need to destroy or dump to keep from getting caught. Explosive are a little different simply because anyone with half a brain and some common (legal) ingredients can make very devastating explosives. This is why Afghanistan is such a problem.... not because the Taliban have $24 million machine guns. Way more troops are killed by IED than gun fire. For $50.00 you could make a FAE that would flatten an office building or a store the size of a Walmart.

12-20-2012, 08:11 PM	#682
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by lammie200 Admittedly I am not an expert on firearms. The article labeled it a .25 caliber semi-automatic handgun. Perhaps there is only one type and that is what you are referring to? I would, however, recommend that if the interested parties want voters to understand the differences between firearms that they think should, or should not be, banned or regulated, they educate the constituents on the terminology and types of firearms in question. Then again, the tactic of obfuscation is a handy tool for hidden agendas. That is hard to do when the media don't know their collective butts from a hot buttered roll. Frankly, the hidden agenda is to ban everything anyway. However, Parallax nailed it. The pistol cartridge is known as the .25 automatic colt pistol, .45 automatic colt pistol. The 9mm is really 9mm parabellum a.k.a. 9mm Luger a.k.a. 9x19. To confuse things some of these rounds can also be used in some revolvers. However, the automatic you were thinking of is technically fully automatic as in heavy, medium, and light machine guns and machine pistols. True assault rifles have fully automatic or select fire capability. AR's do not nor do AK's sold to civilians. The exception being something like a pre 1986 made Thompson with a Federal license to possess it.

12-20-2012, 11:01 PM	#684
arnold Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,294	Originally posted by graphicgr8s This is all I want for Christmas Obliterating a Fish In A Barrel: Mythbusters - YouTube You won't be eating much in that case, the fish is just the head left.

12-21-2012, 11:44 AM	#686
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	NRA Press Conference Displays Political Problems - Business Insider Quote: Earlier today, the NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre advocated for putting an armed police officer in every school during a rather stunning press conference. Whatever your thoughts on the merits of the NRA's idea of a fix, it also doesn't quite line up with any political ideology. Liberals want more gun control, and fiscal conservatives won't like the idea of spending billions of dollars on armed security guards at every school. Read more: NRA Press Conference Displays Political Problems - Business Insider

12-21-2012, 12:18 PM	#687
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by jeffkrol NRA Press Conference Displays Political Problems - Business Insider Read more: NRA Press Conference Displays Political Problems - Business Insider So a kindergarten drawing is the basis of the gun ban lobby complaint? Or is that from 6th grade math class?