[Parallax]

Just joined NRA for the first time.

Just out of curiosity, does your screen name have a connection to the shooting sports?

[JohnInIndy]

A pump can hold maybe 4, 5 shells without a magazine extension. It would be a very effective mass murder weapon, but a shooter is going to be at a greater disadvantage when it's time to reload. A .357 is probably going to be harder to fire quickly on-target rapidly do to recoil, even for a very experienced shooter.

But if you insist that those are just as effective in this situation... we could look at further restrictions. At some point the gun lobby may find some of their arguments becoming counter-productive.



This slippery-slope argument is well-used, and false. With each restriction down the line you lose supporters, until you don't have a majority or plurality any longer, and that's where you end up. Case in point: gay marriage. Any day now we'll start to see marriage to family members or animals made legal... right? Slippery slope?

By the way - the '20 foot' argument from the other thread - my (and many others') point is that every reload gives an opportunity to rush the shooter. Increase the necessary reloads, you increase those opportunities.

Tom S seems to think you have to be superman to cover twenty feet in about a second, but even he - no matter how out of shape - could probably do it. Try it. Mark off twenty feet, tense yourself, imagine an abrupt stop to shooting and seeing a weapon lowered to reload and sprint to the 20 foot mark, counting 'one thousand one.' Unless you're really sub-par physically, you're there, on the shooter. Even if he's as calm as Rambo while being rushed, he can't put that magazine in and ready to fire quicker than probably 1.5 seconds. You're on the shooter - you, and anyone else in that room has hope.

If he's standing there invincible with more rounds immediately ready than there are people in the room - little to no hope. You're probably all dead.

.

Although it might take one second to cover the distance you'd lose 2-3 seconds until you realize you have the opportunity to make your move. And that's if you're fully tuned in. Would you be? I doubt it.

[Nesster]

As I said in the other NRA thread:

It will be interesting to see what the NRA comes up with.

WASHINGTON (AP) — After four days of self-imposed silence on the shooting that killed 26 people inside a Newtown, Conn., elementary school, the nation's largest gun rights lobby emerged Tuesday and promised "to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again."

The National Rifle Association explained its unusual absence "out of respect for the families and as a matter of common decency" after Friday's shooting that left dead 20 children, all ages 6 or 7.

The group — typically outspoken about its positions even after shooting deaths — went all but silent since the rampage. As it faced public scrutiny online and in person, the group left many wondering how — if at all — it would respond to one of the most shocking slayings in the nation's history.

"The National Rifle Association of America is made up of 4 million moms and dads, sons and daughters, and we were shocked, saddened and heartbroken by the news of the horrific and senseless murders in Newtown," the organization said in a statement. "The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again."

The group said it would have a news conference to answer questions Friday, the one-week anniversary of the shootings.

NRA promises to help prevent school shootings - Yahoo! News

By my long count we will find out what the NRA proposes after this forum is closed.

[Blue]

As I said in the other NRA thread:


By my long count we will find out what the NRA proposes after this forum is closed.

Both are timed with the Mayan Calendar.

[Nesster]

Both are timed with the Mayan Calendar.

There we go! Any more Signs of the End?

1) P&R closing
2) NRA coming out with a softened stance
3) Republicans coming out with a tax rate increase

[Parallax]

There we go! Any more Signs of the End?

1) P&R closing
2) NRA coming out with a softened stance
3) Republicans coming out with a tax rate increase

Only 4 more signs to go.

[Jasvox]

You and I are members of the White American Male club. Our benefits have been coming in since birth and will never stop.

Oh snap!!



Jason

[Nesster]

Only 4 more signs to go.

4) Obama Time Magazine Man of the Year?
5) Grover Norquist saying OK to raise taxes for incomes over $1mm?
6) Murdoch owned NY Post editorial saying 2nd amendment is obsolete?
7) Surprise Pentax FF announcement?

[Blue]

4) Obama Time Magazine Man Person of the Year?
5) Grover Norquist saying OK to raise taxes for incomes over $1mm?
6) Murdoch owned NY Post editorial saying 2nd amendment is obsolete?
7) Surprise Pentax FF announcement?

Information on the FF will require knowing the secrete hand shake.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/welcomes-introductions/209062-ive-always-...ml#post2211434

[ryant]

A pump can hold maybe 4, 5 shells without a magazine extension. It would be a very effective mass murder weapon, but a shooter is going to be at a greater disadvantage when it's time to reload. A .357 is probably going to be harder to fire quickly on-target rapidly do to recoil, even for a very experienced shooter.

But if you insist that those are just as effective in this situation... we could look at further restrictions. At some point the gun lobby may find some of their arguments becoming counter-productive.

I've seen/heard this argument before but the truth is that all this talk about gun restriction this, banning that, etc is entirely misguided. It's approaching the problem from the entirely wrong perspective IMO. Just a quick case and point here

Dunblane school massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now hear me out, It doesn't take any form of "assault weapon" (whatever that means anyway??) to kill a large number of people. This exact case happend in Dunblane and it was a whacko with four pistols. The bottom line is, the problem is the people not the tools. You have people getting massacred all over the world and the tools really vary. People use guns, bombs, knives, machette's, sticks, rocks, cars, fists. The list goes on and on. You can't correct human behavior by banning a tool. I understand that people say these "assault weapons" have no place.. but really the VAST majority of people simply love to shoot them for sport. The purpose or place is fun. Now you could say that fun or recreation isn't a good enough reason for something to be allowed if it also is the cause of death.. Let me draw another comparison.. Alcohol and tabaco, they are both purely recreational items that are responsible for vastly more deaths than guns (especially if you take the numbers for gun deaths and subtract deaths from police officers shooting a criminal, deaths from gang wars etc). Not to say that those deaths don't count but the reality is cops will (and should) always be armed IMO. Also gang bangers don't statistically use any form of "assault weapons". It's usually cheap pistols. So no assault weapon ban will realistically impact them anyways. The point is there is a much bigger fish to fry than "assault weapons" so why are we wasting our time and money on something so historically difficult to pass?

Another factor is that there is very little evidence that suggests any type of high cap magazine ban or "assault weapon" ban would actually effectively save any lives. The number of lives taken with "assault weapons" is an extremely small percentage (especially when stacked up against juggernauts like alcohol and tabaco). I read an article on NBC and I feel that it really hits the nail on the head. Here is a snippit

"Of the 62 mass shootings that have occurred since 1982, the vast majority have been committed by individuals using semiautomatic handguns, and obtained through legal means.

Moreover, the rate of violence in the years prior to the creation of the ban (clinton AWB), looked an awful lot like the rate once the ban was implemented.

What’s clear is the frequency, and the lethality, of violent episodes has spiked in recent years. Not as obvious, however, are the underlying reasons why."

The simple truth is that the problem isn't and never has been the item someone used to cause mass destruction. Look at the two worst instances of mass killings in the US recently. The twin towers, and the Oklahoma city Bomber. Niether used guns. The supplies to make bombs hasn't been regulated to my knowledge and there is nothing stopping someone from doing it again. Even if this new "assault weapon" ban does get passed, how many lives do you think it will save?? If people use tool B(machettes, knives, hand guns, etc) to do the same thing why do you think it will prevent it from happening to ban tool A ("assault weapons")? That may sound cold but there is little evidence to suggest it's actually effective in saving lives. People find other ways to inflict death upon others. They will simply use other guns, or other tools, to do it if one becomes unavailable.

My point is this really. I'm seriously all for helping the solve the issue and saving lives. I get pissed off when I hear people sound off about "assault weapons" and when I think about all the money that is spent from both sides trying to ban guns and trying to prevent guns from being banned. I would much rather see that money put to use for something that will save the most lives because lives are a precious thing. If we funneled the money into researching solutions to address the SOURCE of the issue I would be much happier. I think the key lies more in helping people, not passing laws to restrict the ownership of a specific type of firearm.

This is just my two cents here. I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Edit: Just a side note, I'm not in the camp of "let people own tanks!!!!!11". I happen to think our laws regarding guns aren't bad but there's always room for improvement. I would however like to hear intelligent debate on how to address issues in a way that makes sense by focusing on the source of the issue. I'm all for working on these problems in ways that will really have a positive impact in saving the most lives across the board, not just with gun violence but with any type of violence. On a personal level I think that any of these mass murders or senseless life taking is utterly abhorrent and I wish it would never happen. My prayers go out to any family who has lost someone to violence.

[Tom S.]

Now hear me out, It doesn't take any form of "assault weapon" (whatever that means anyway??) to kill a large number of people.

It doesn't even take firearms. As I posted in another thread (which many of the antis' ignored), the worst school incident in US history took place in 1927 in the town of Bath Michigan where 38 children and adults were killed, and another 58 person injured. Again, no firearms were used. It was the result of a bomb.

[fiveseven]

Just out of curiosity, does your screen name have a connection to the shooting sports?

Yes and no.
I'm 5.7, I think Lanthanum is a very cool metal but I do like that handgun as well.

Main no is that I don't view firearm rights or ownership as a sport.

[Tom S.]

Yes and no.
I'm 5.7, I think Lanthanum is a very cool metal but I do like that handgun as well.

Main no is that I don't view firearm rights or ownership as a sport.

I believe he was referring to caliber, not metal.

[WillH]

It doesn't even take firearms. As I posted in another thread (which many of the antis' ignored), the worst school incident in US history took place in 1927 in the town of Bath Michigan where 38 children and adults were killed, and another 58 person injured. Again, no firearms were used. It was the result of a bomb.

I fear your comments are falling on deaf ears! They need more laws (that can't be enforced), more taxes (most of which will be wasted) and more government (which will support their sense of well being via a collective group hug ).

As some have said, perhaps a more effective approach should focus on the movie and video game industry! Whoa, but then all that money from the entertainment industry, that supports a political social agenda, would be lost! So, it's about the money again - not the issue. The issue is our children's mental health! Too much common sense?

[Parallax]

I believe he was referring to caliber, not metal.

Close; a model of firearm, as in FN Five-seveN

but I do like that handgun as well.