Barack Obama accused opponents of holding a personal grudge against him

JohnInIndy · 12-20-2012, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

Back Medicare for all and I'll personally campaign for lower taxes for you.. including eliminating all FICA..........

No you are angry and jealous some people get "stuff" and you don't...........

Don't go babbling on about free stuff when in fact we have had a free (and troublesome) military (and military industries backed by "free money") for decades.............and some want to give them MORE free money .. while taking things out of the hands of the poor.. TO BE perfectly honest.. that is a bit twisted............

I actually do support some form of a catastrophic centralized medical plan(details to be worked out). I don't support a womb to tomb plan though.

jeffkrol · 12-20-2012, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by JohnInIndy

I actually do support some form of a catastrophic centralized medical plan(details to be worked out). I don't support a womb to tomb plan though.

"common ground" can be found anywhere... if one looks............

jeffkrol · 12-20-2012, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by seacapt

In all fairness, many people do not realize just how much in taxes and fees employers pay that workers don't

sure they do.. they also know that the "mechanic" doesn't get paid $60/hr. plus "materials"..................... nor the "plumber" $80/hr plus the "materials"......

Actually most (A)mericans are quite aware....and very accepting of inequality.. to a point.
Those that complain about the cost of labor for the mechanic/plumber/electrician RARELY are complaining about "THE" mechanic/plumber/electrician.......... unlike "THE" lawyer at $150/hr (sorry Gene it's not quite fair but you understand

)

larryinlc · 12-20-2012, 09:58 AM

I want to be able to buy a new 4 wheel drive truck every other year for 50k and not pay sales tax which is supposed to be for the business but is used 99% of the time for personal use. I want to be able to go to Vegas every year for a so called "business trip" and write the whole thing off. I'm not saying that business doesn't pay, but they do have benefits that others do not.

**boriscleto** · 12-20-2012, 10:44 AM - **1 Like**

Youtu.be

Tom S. · 12-20-2012, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by JohnInIndy

Seems as though I did

Nope. It's really not a difficult question to answer. Yes or no. Pick one.

JohnInIndy · 12-20-2012, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by Tom S.

Nope. It's really not a difficult question to answer. Yes or no. Pick one.

Yes. I want to pay my fair share. I have no problem paying "my fair share".

Now the question becomes "What is that 'fair' share?"

Tom S. · 12-20-2012, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by JohnInIndy

Yes. I want to pay my fair share. I have no problem paying "my fair share".

Now the question becomes "What is that 'fair' share?"

Not the question - try to pay attention. Are you a millionaire?

JohnInIndy · 12-20-2012, 11:10 AM

Quote:

So now that I answered your question - answer mine - are you one of the millionaires who don't want to pay your share?

Wasn't this the question? Or am I missing something?

The answer to that specific question is No. I am not one of the millionaires who doesn't want to pay my share.

Now answer my question. What is my "fair" share?
20%
30%
50%
75%
100%?

Or something else?

Tom S. · 12-20-2012, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by JohnInIndy

Wasn't this the question? Or am I missing something?

The answer to that specific question is No. I am not one of the millionaires who doesn't want to pay my share.

Now answer my question. What is my "fair" share?
20%
30%
50%
75%
100%?

Or something else?

Something else. Flat tax for anyone above the poverty level with no deductions.

Nesster · 12-20-2012, 11:25 AM

The 'fair' share is whatever is set by law. This can and is changed over time; however the more frequent the changes the more uncertanity in the business community and the worse it is for hiring and expansion plans.

And let's just keep it to federal income tax. Are we talking about marginal rates or what the blended rate is? And are we talking 'taxable' income or income before credits and allowances?

JohnInIndy · 12-20-2012, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Nesster

The 'fair' share is whatever is set by law. This can and is changed over time; however the more frequent the changes the more uncertanity in the business community and the worse it is for hiring and expansion plans.

And let's just keep it to federal income tax. Are we talking about marginal rates or what the blended rate is? And are we talking 'taxable' income or income before credits and allowances?

Just because it is set by law doesn't mean it is fair.

JohnInIndy · 12-20-2012, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Tom S.

Something else. Flat tax for anyone above the poverty level with no deductions.

I'll go along for your flat tax.

But spending needs to be cut and not as wasteful

Jasvox · 12-20-2012, 12:47 PM

How else is the $1.5 TRILLION Dollars worth of illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan going to be paid for? Spending cuts? Try there first. Either way, the debt needs to be paid for the follies of the past.

Jason

Nesster · 12-20-2012, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by JohnInIndy

Just because it is set by law doesn't mean it is fair.

Fair means everyone in the same circumstance is treated the same and that everyone has the same recourse under law.

Fair in the sense of one's own opinion is not fairness, it is personal opinion. This also changes based on how the issue is presented. A while back we'd discussed here the studies that show how Americans would think a fair division of income and/or wealth would look; very different than reality. And though Mitt Romney's tax rate is fair in the sense it is legal, I personally don't think it is so, and therefore I support those who would change it.

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12-20-2012, 08:32 AM	#16
JohnInIndy Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 794	Originally posted by jeffkrol Back Medicare for all and I'll personally campaign for lower taxes for you.. including eliminating all FICA.......... No you are angry and jealous some people get "stuff" and you don't........... Don't go babbling on about free stuff when in fact we have had a free (and troublesome) military (and military industries backed by "free money") for decades.............and some want to give them MORE free money .. while taking things out of the hands of the poor.. TO BE perfectly honest.. that is a bit twisted............ I actually do support some form of a catastrophic centralized medical plan(details to be worked out). I don't support a womb to tomb plan though.

12-20-2012, 09:32 AM	#17
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434 Original Poster	Originally posted by JohnInIndy I actually do support some form of a catastrophic centralized medical plan(details to be worked out). I don't support a womb to tomb plan though. "common ground" can be found anywhere... if one looks............

12-20-2012, 09:39 AM	#18
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434 Original Poster	Originally posted by seacapt In all fairness, many people do not realize just how much in taxes and fees employers pay that workers don't sure they do.. they also know that the "mechanic" doesn't get paid $60/hr. plus "materials"..................... nor the "plumber" $80/hr plus the "materials"...... Actually most (A)mericans are quite aware....and very accepting of inequality.. to a point. Those that complain about the cost of labor for the mechanic/plumber/electrician RARELY are complaining about "THE" mechanic/plumber/electrician.......... unlike "THE" lawyer at $150/hr (sorry Gene it's not quite fair but you understand )

12-20-2012, 09:58 AM	#19
larryinlc Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Wisconsin USA Posts: 993	I want to be able to buy a new 4 wheel drive truck every other year for 50k and not pay sales tax which is supposed to be for the business but is used 99% of the time for personal use. I want to be able to go to Vegas every year for a so called "business trip" and write the whole thing off. I'm not saying that business doesn't pay, but they do have benefits that others do not.

12-20-2012, 10:46 AM	#21
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by JohnInIndy Seems as though I did Nope. It's really not a difficult question to answer. Yes or no. Pick one.

12-20-2012, 10:49 AM	#22
JohnInIndy Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 794	Originally posted by Tom S. Nope. It's really not a difficult question to answer. Yes or no. Pick one. Yes. I want to pay my fair share. I have no problem paying "my fair share". Now the question becomes "What is that 'fair' share?"

12-20-2012, 10:57 AM	#23
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by JohnInIndy Yes. I want to pay my fair share. I have no problem paying "my fair share". Now the question becomes "What is that 'fair' share?" Not the question - try to pay attention. Are you a millionaire?

12-20-2012, 11:10 AM	#24
JohnInIndy Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 794	Quote: So now that I answered your question - answer mine - are you one of the millionaires who don't want to pay your share? Wasn't this the question? Or am I missing something? The answer to that specific question is No. I am not one of the millionaires who doesn't want to pay my share. Now answer my question. What is my "fair" share? 20% 30% 50% 75% 100%? Or something else?

12-20-2012, 11:20 AM	#25
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by JohnInIndy Wasn't this the question? Or am I missing something? The answer to that specific question is No. I am not one of the millionaires who doesn't want to pay my share. Now answer my question. What is my "fair" share? 20% 30% 50% 75% 100%? Or something else? Something else. Flat tax for anyone above the poverty level with no deductions.

12-20-2012, 11:25 AM	#26
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	The 'fair' share is whatever is set by law. This can and is changed over time; however the more frequent the changes the more uncertanity in the business community and the worse it is for hiring and expansion plans. And let's just keep it to federal income tax. Are we talking about marginal rates or what the blended rate is? And are we talking 'taxable' income or income before credits and allowances?

12-20-2012, 12:28 PM	#27
JohnInIndy Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 794	Originally posted by Nesster The 'fair' share is whatever is set by law. This can and is changed over time; however the more frequent the changes the more uncertanity in the business community and the worse it is for hiring and expansion plans. And let's just keep it to federal income tax. Are we talking about marginal rates or what the blended rate is? And are we talking 'taxable' income or income before credits and allowances? Just because it is set by law doesn't mean it is fair.

12-20-2012, 12:40 PM	#28
JohnInIndy Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 794	Originally posted by Tom S. Something else. Flat tax for anyone above the poverty level with no deductions. I'll go along for your flat tax. But spending needs to be cut and not as wasteful

12-20-2012, 12:47 PM	#29
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	How else is the $1.5 TRILLION Dollars worth of illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan going to be paid for? Spending cuts? Try there first. Either way, the debt needs to be paid for the follies of the past. Jason

12-20-2012, 12:48 PM	#30
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Originally posted by JohnInIndy Just because it is set by law doesn't mean it is fair. Fair means everyone in the same circumstance is treated the same and that everyone has the same recourse under law. Fair in the sense of one's own opinion is not fairness, it is personal opinion. This also changes based on how the issue is presented. A while back we'd discussed here the studies that show how Americans would think a fair division of income and/or wealth would look; very different than reality. And though Mitt Romney's tax rate is fair in the sense it is legal, I personally don't think it is so, and therefore I support those who would change it.