[Parallax]

The Con called Cold Fusion.

Tennis, anyone? 30-love, service jeffkrol.

[jeffkrol]

Tennis, anyone? 30-love, service jeffkrol.

Weakest article i've seen in a LONG time.. FIRST:

So yes, I think cold fusion is possible. And no, I don’t see any reason to believe that it’s real.

OK that makes................??????????????? Unless you invoke "anything is possible" clause..

Take away the smoke and mirrors, and show me the physics, and then we’ll have a story. Because that’s what scientists — real scientists — do.

Actually REAL scientist EXPAND the current dogma.. not ACCEPT it as a done deal.. and 2) REAL scientists job is to disprove the status quo (even in their own ranks when the preponderance of evidence leads them there).. think "sun goes around the earth"... a good example of dogma vs facts is Edison vs Tesla....

Espacenet - Original document

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/54392/are-there-still-everyday-ph...ned-by-physics

[Rupert]

Tennis, anyone? 30-love, service jeffkrol.

All along Otis has been trying to tell you guys that Cold Fusion is nothing more than a bunch of his Army Squirrels in boxes playing games with the minds of those looking for something for nothing.....or rich investors.

Chess player in a box....Squirrel in a box.....same outcome..... a little heat, a lot of noise, and NO BEEF!
[IMG] [/IMG]

Regards!

[jeffkrol]

All along Otis has been trying to tell you guys that Cold Fusion is nothing more than a bunch of his Army Squirrels in boxes playing games with the minds of those looking for something for nothing.....or rich investors.

Chess player in a box....Squirrel in a box.....same outcome..... a little heat, a lot of noise, and NO BEEF!
[/url] [/IMG]

Regards!

Listening to squirrels is a "mystery" all in itself.............

[Tom S.]

Actually REAL scientist EXPAND the current dogma.. not ACCEPT it as a done deal.. and 2) REAL scientists job is to disprove the status quo (even in their own ranks when the preponderance of evidence leads them there).. think "sun goes around the earth"... a good example of dogma vs facts is Edison vs Tesla....

Real scientists invite others to examine and prove/disprove their theories and discoveries. Rossi has done neither. If you are a true believer, put your money where your mouth is, sell everything you own and invest in this flimflam. If what you claim to believe is true, you'll become a multi billionaire. I'm betting that you haven't invested one dime.

[Alain_Co]

Real scientists invite others to examine and prove/disprove their theories and discoveries. Rossi has done neither. If you are a true believer, put your money where your mouth is, sell everything you own and invest in this flimflam. If what you claim to believe is true, you'll become a multi billionaire. I'm betting that you haven't invested one dime.

Rossi, like Defkalion, are businesses.
Rossi invited Elforsk which is a consortium of research labs for electric industry in sweden.
Defkalion invited any interested party, and companies stay discrete on what happened.

The elforsk test is not really a scientific test, but a commercial industrial test, with the testers preparing a paper to raise awareness.

The recent Defkalion test is said to be done to increase awareness of their achievement toward the ICCF community, and also the interested public... It is communication (mostly to LENR researchers I think), and they allowed testers to play with the wires to increase confidence on the reality of that demo...

They will publish a paper at ICCF18, pushed by Yeong E Kim.

There won't be a really openbox test on LENR until it is sold to the public.

Maybe soon DGT will organize an independent closed box test for their off-the-shelf reactor, just before the sales.
Hydrofusion rather propose to install a showcase reactor for a client.

In few years it will be science, today it is industry.

Science have failed to recognize LENR, and to make it useful, now garage inventors and businessmen take the lead, with their rules. You cannot blame them.

--AlainCo the techwatcher or lenr-forum.com

[Tom S.]

Rossi, like Defkalion, are businesses. There won't be a really openbox test on LENR until it is sold to the public.

That is the only part of your post worth quoting. As businesses, they are looking for investors. And like many failed ventures in the past, once they have the money, they make some claims about the government stopping them, or mistakes in their formulas, and disappear in the night - or come up with some other get rich scheme. Those (investors) who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

BTW: this is a Pentax camera forum. If you own a Pentax and wish to participate, please do. Otherwise, go elsewhere. We are in no need of con men or con jobs here.

[jeffkrol]

Real scientists invite others to examine and prove/disprove their theories and discoveries. Rossi has done neither. If you are a true believer, put your money where your mouth is, sell everything you own and invest in this flimflam. If what you claim to believe is true, you'll become a multi billionaire. I'm betting that you haven't invested one dime.

well yes Rossi and Deflakon are "financial organizations not universities.. SURPRISE they keep secrets.. who would have thunk it..as to investing dimes.. most thought McDonalds was stupid.. a few did.. but those that didn't ... are they immediatily dismissed??? Investing has nothing to do w/ reality... most of the time.. look at WS..

[Rupert]

There won't be a really openbox test on LENR until it is sold to the public.

Otis will open the box when he is guaranteed that enough Nebraska corn is in storage....in his name.

BTW: this is a Pentax camera forum. If you own a Pentax and wish to participate, please do. Otherwise, go elsewhere. We are in no need of con men or con jobs here.

Maybe a little strong Tom? We aren't talking much camera stuff here anyhow. What's the harm of letting believers...believe? They either have the beef or they don't. There is no "in between". More fun here than beef....what's the harm? A squirrel is in the box or he isn't........well, sometimes he is half in/half out, but you can expect that with squirrels, after all they are squirrely!

A squirrel in every box! Then we will have true success!
[IMG] [/IMG]

Regards!

[Tom S.]

well yes Rossi and Deflakon are "financial organizations not universities.. SURPRISE they keep secrets.. who would have thunk it..as to investing dimes.. most thought McDonalds was stupid.. a few did.. but those that didn't ... are they immediatily dismissed??? Investing has nothing to do w/ reality... most of the time.. look at WS..

McDonalds delivered, these guys haven't, nor will they. But since you failed to disclose that you have made any investment in cold fusion, you have all but acknowledged that you aren't sure enough the process will work either. So why are you championing something you don't believe in? As for "investing having nothing to do with reality", I am dumfounded that you would make such a statement. It's always about the money.

[Rupert]

It's always about the money.

...or in Otis' case, the corn! That seems to be his biggest interest in Cold Fusion, he says he smells something very corny about the entire subject, and is certain there must be a trillion bushels of corn involved...but no beef!

Regards!

[jeffkrol]

McDonalds delivered, these guys haven't, nor will they. But since you failed to disclose that you have made any investment in cold fusion, you have all but acknowledged that you aren't sure enough the process will work either. So why are you championing something you don't believe in? As for "investing having nothing to do with reality", I am dumfounded that you would make such a statement. It's always about the money.

first me and my ist-D are doing just fine thank you.. and the K200 (or whatever it is) I use at work.. well it's "ok". Personally I'm bored stiff w/ FF talk and was completely disgusted w/ Hoya and though squirrels are cute there is only so much one can take (sorry Rupert no offense you'd probably be tired of me posting mushroom pictures constantly) Besides is that any way to talk to your "elders" ????? I was one of THE FIRST wave and did my fair share of "advertising" this site and dragging as many from dpreview as I could by at least adding interest at the beginning (or so I hoped). Maybe I feel a tad "entitled"..


As to being sure it "works" there are multiple issues 1)Is the science/theory or theorized theory correct (I think it is based on the literature, history, and the profound understanding that we are not always the "smarty pants" "we" think we are)
2) Is this something entities w/ disposable income should be throwing more money at at opposed to other forms of alternative energy (I believe it is WAY underfunded due to social "stigma" and people w/ vested financial interests maneuvering to keep their gravy trains flowing. Science research, almost by definition is a money pit and prone to failure and is a good example of a classic "good old boys" clique..
3)I do think "someone" will finally grab the brass ring , be it Rossi, the Greeks, Jet Energy , Brillioun, Mitsubishi, Toyota, NASA, SPARWAR and about a dozen other companies, some probably not even on my "radar". Some w/ current "real" products of some sort, many without.. Creative destruction.. Capitalism at its finest... I find the social psychology fascinating a nd a good diversion from "other things"..
4) I believe we are close.. closer than, obviously most here believe and would like to keep the peanut gallery informed... Hey can't be any worse than "believing in the FF fairy"....or that there really is a thing as "too many pixels"..

Besides if there is a real product or breakthrough within the next 6 months or so I get to laugh my head off.. If not, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.. when proven wrong.. I have enough normal skepticism to have my ups and downs in this field.. do you have a problem w/ someone believing thay are sharing a ground level glimpse at a technology that has a profound impact of everything we know?? See me selling any other "snake oil" here..or anywhere else (since the demise of the body politik)????
Really lighten up..

I don't think I've EVER encouraged ANYONE to invest.. in anything in particular and to be honest, considering my track record in certain investments if I did invest it would surely fail.. LOL

[jeffkrol]

McDonalds delivered, these guys haven't, nor will they. But since you failed to disclose that you have made any investment in cold fusion, you have all but acknowledged that you aren't sure enough the process will work either. So why are you championing something you don't believe in? As for "investing having nothing to do with reality", I am dumfounded that you would make such a statement. It's always about the money.

sure you can say that now.. Tesla "delivered" too.. took a generation before "common people" understood what he ACTUALLY did...Hey I love underdogs.. GO FIGURE..at a Pentax forum huh..

Oh and don't you find it ODD that in a society where if a Kardashian stubs their toe the media is ALL over it yet some (real or quack) company has a demonstration of a paradigm shifting technology the ONLY "lame stream media" that even made lip service to it (pro or CON) is Forbes and Wired UK????.............

curiouser and curiouser.. Alice said...

http://pesn.com/2012/11/19/9602225_Steven_Jones_replica--Pons_and_Fleischman...uriOct2012.pdf

Sveinn Olafsson of the Science Institute University of Iceland said it has been interesting to see how differently scientists see things, as well as how they explain and refute their findings.

Prelas, who presented a paper during the conference, said though it might have taken 20 years, it is wonderful to see the university embracing condensed matter research. In 1991, Prelas' funding was stripped, and he was told to stop his experiments.

"That's the beauty of science: Eventually, reason prevails," Prelas said.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/education/scientists-gather-for-global-n...04b9f6eda.html

[Tom S.]

My comment about owning a Pentax camera was made to Alain_Co, unless of course you have created a second user ID in violation of site rules.

You were the one who brought McD's into the conversation. I merely pointed out that they delivered - and from the very beginning to boot.

Since you seem to have an abundance of time, why not go through the past 50 years of Popular Science and Popular Mechanics and note how many life changing advancements they predicted (cold fusion among them) never came to fruition?

As for you admitting you're wrong, I somehow doubt any of us will ever see that day.

[Rupert]

It all seems so simple to me, I don't understand the confusion and debate. If something works and is worthwhile, you can find it on the shelves of Walmart or at Home Depot....or some similar outlet.
If it doesn't deliver, it's on your TV as an Infomercial, promising to change your entire life and make you rich, handsome, beautiful, and more intelligent than your neighbor, who likes to keep his cash in his wallet.

That's pretty much the basic facts of life.

Regards!