[Pentaxor]

as you may know, some of us here are involved on selling a lot of stuff online. whether if it's Ebay, Pentax Marketplace or you local kijiji or craigslist. so we are pretty aware of what's going on, or maybe a few doesn't. but let me share my experiences first and some trivial things that has been going along.

as a buyer, the dangerous types that I encountered so far are potential stolen goods or credit card purchases. in case of stolen goods, how were you able to determine if they were stolen?
with regards to goods purchased with a stolen credit card, the goods are legit, but the use of the card isn't. again, the question of how you determine that it's not his?

as a seller. the most obvious ones would be Nigeria, Africa, whatever purchase. but anyway, the main concern are some using stolen identities. sometimes, buyers offer me "too good of a deal to pass" that would make anyone super-excited and provide all the confidential infos to the scam artist. the question is how these scam artists are able to respond to ads? do they use programs or bots? so far, some redflags were there such as generalizing the item without really asking for an specific about the item. and also wouldn't mind paying for the shipping with extra (but I have to admit as a buyer that I also do this but difficult to determine the sincerity of the buyer).

because of this, I have to be more vigilant than ever and do a lot of background checking before dealing with someone in the net. I just felt bad for those first timers due to these annoying scoundrels.

[EarlVonTapia]

as a buyer, the dangerous types that I encountered so far are potential stolen goods or credit card purchases. in case of stolen goods, how were you able to determine if they were stolen?
with regards to goods purchased with a stolen credit card, the goods are legit, but the use of the card isn't. again, the question of how you determine that it's not his?

Hello my fellow Vancouverite.

I'll be straight up on this, and I'm probably going to get some disapproving looks. I only want to contribute to the discussion.

When I buy through Craigslist (anything, not just camera gear), I actually don't bother trying to snoop around to see if what I'm buying is stolen or not. That's not my job. I am not a hero detective. Innocent until proven guilty. Even if the listing is quite suspect (GOPRO BLACK $300 CASH FIRM QUICK SALE), to me, it's just another good deal.

I've just come to grips with the nature of Craiglist over the years as I've used it at least 50 times (probably more, but I'm not keeping track) over the past few years to buy and sell goods, some transactions amounting in the hundreds of dollars. If I buy something that later turns out to be stolen and the police confront me about it, no problem, I will turn it over and fully comply with identifying the seller. But that is the risk I take in saving some bucks, and I fully understand it.

Related story. I once sold my Blackberry Bold two years ago at the Scott Road SkyTrain station (basically our public transit trains for non-Vancouverites), right by the ticket machines. I met the guy, he looked inside and inspected the unit for a few minutes, and then he handed me $200 in 20 dollar bills before departing. A completely legitimate sale. How would that transaction look to a neutral third-party observer?

That being said, I am moving towards using Ebay, these forums, and Amazon for my online purchases in the future, at least for camera gear (I will always trawl through Craigslist for deals on general goods). Ebay, PF, and Amazon have systems in place to ensure the integrity of a transaction which are unavailable on Craigslist.

I haven't done a lot of selling, but I'm hoping to build up my Ebay account so I can eventually start selling things through there.

[Pentaxor]

Hello my fellow Vancouverite.

I'll be straight up on this, and I'm probably going to get some disapproving looks. I only want to contribute to the discussion.

When I buy through Craigslist (anything, not just camera gear), I actually don't bother trying to snoop around to see if what I'm buying is stolen or not. That's not my job. I am not a hero detective. Innocent until proven guilty. Even if the listing is quite suspect (GOPRO BLACK $300 CASH FIRM QUICK SALE), to me, it's just another good deal.

I've just come to grips with the nature of Craiglist over the years as I've used it at least 50 times (probably more, but I'm not keeping track) over the past few years to buy and sell goods, some transactions amounting in the hundreds of dollars. If I buy something that later turns out to be stolen and the police confront me about it, no problem, I will turn it over and fully comply with identifying the seller. But that is the risk I take in saving some bucks, and I fully understand it.

Related story. I once sold my Blackberry Bold two years ago at the Scott Road SkyTrain station (basically our public transit trains for non-Vancouverites), right by the ticket machines. I met the guy, he looked inside and inspected the unit for a few minutes, and then he handed me $200 in 20 dollar bills before departing. A completely legitimate sale. How would that transaction look to a neutral third-party observer?

That being said, I am moving towards using Ebay, these forums, and Amazon for my online purchases in the future, at least for camera gear (I will always trawl through Craigslist for deals on general goods). Ebay, PF, and Amazon have systems in place to ensure the integrity of a transaction which are unavailable on Craigslist.

I haven't done a lot of selling, but I'm hoping to build up my Ebay account so I can eventually start selling things through there.

Yes, I agree with all that and I guess the most popular place of transaction is more or less done on train stations and I don't know why. I see a lot of people and I always tell my wife whenever we see people inspecting stuff and handing money in public transits that those are craigslist or kijiji transactions. to be honest, I'm not at ease at all doing transactions on transit stations since a lot of passers-by, onlookers that could get tempted on doing something bad. but most of all, avoid the addicts that are roaming around the stations. basically, I meet people in crowded places, but private enough to do transactions without or less prying eyes. there was one individual that I agreed to meet at my home which I gave an exception, but that was because he's a well-known public fella, but not the type that are on the public watchlist.

[SteveM]

When I buy through Craigslist (anything, not just camera gear), I actually don't bother trying to snoop around to see if what I'm buying is stolen or not. That's not my job. I am not a hero detective. Innocent until proven guilty. Even if the listing is quite suspect (GOPRO BLACK $300 CASH FIRM QUICK SALE), to me, it's just another good deal.
.

I don't know the actual law here in Canada...perhaps someone can help us out but I believe being charged with "possession of stolen property" involves whether someone would question the sale....including if the price communicates a red flag.

[EarlVonTapia]

including if the price communicates a red flag.

I think that can get murky.

See this post of mine. A $180 lens being sold quickly for less than half its price? But, he said he got it legitimately, and I took his word. He could have just stolen it from somewhere. Yet, I don't have psychic powers to verify his thoughts, so I didn't bother speculating. And if indeed it turned out to be from a theft or other unlawful means, I think I would be off the hook in that situation.

I've also offloaded many things on Craigslist for way cheaper than what they normally sell for, simply because I wanted a quick sale. Cell phones, a Galaxy Tab, video game accessories, furniture.

The selling price is a poor determinant for whether or not something is stolen.

[russell2pi]

I'm over ebay / paypal - one account wasted by negative feedback which occurred when eBay failed to pass on messages from buyers to me. No opportunity to refute or remedy. Another one raised a security flag because of some old paypal account that got hacked years ago that is somehow linked to me. Try to jump through their hoops, they close the account anyway because I didn't jump through a hoop they never asked me to jump through in the first place. Stuff it.... all too hard for the sake of small change. I'll stick to giving stuff away to charities instead.

[reeftool]

My buying experiences have been good so far. Being a pack rat, I'm not a seller. I've avoided Craigslist after a couple of attempts at purchasing things that fell through. I work evening shifts and just trying to contact a seller other than by email was a hassle so I just avoid it. My Ebay and Marketplace experiences have been positive.

[excanonfd]

I think that can get murky.

See this post of mine. A $180 lens being sold quickly for less than half its price? But, he said he got it legitimately, and I took his word. He could have just stolen it from somewhere. Yet, I don't have psychic powers to verify his thoughts, so I didn't bother speculating. And if indeed it turned out to be from a theft or other unlawful means, I think I would be off the hook in that situation.

And if there is an owner who wants back the stolen goods that you've unwittingly bought? If the goods in your possession is identified as being stolen (serial number registration), at the very least you will lose it/them. It will be up to you and only you, to try to recover the your money from the seller. If you can produce a signed Bill of Goods with the information contained in a Driver's License or similar ID card of the seller, stating that the goods that you have paid for is free of any encumbrances, this might protect you but not the goods you'd paid for because the precedence always lies with the original complainant, the victim of the theft. You may consider yourself a victim too, especially after the police confiscate the goods in your possession but to the police, you are an accessory to the theft because ignorance of the law is not a defence.

[EarlVonTapia]

And if there is an owner who wants back the stolen goods that you've unwittingly bought? If the goods in your possession is identified as being stolen (serial number registration), at the very least you will lose it/them. It will be up to you and only you, to try to recover the your money from the seller. If you can produce a signed Bill of Goods with the information contained in a Driver's License or similar ID card of the seller, stating that the goods that you have paid for is free of any encumbrances, this might protect you but not the goods you'd paid for because the precedence always lies with the original complainant, the victim of the theft. You may consider yourself a victim too, especially after the police confiscate the goods in your possession but to the police, you are an accessory to the theft because ignorance of the law is not a defence.

As I stated earlier, these are risks I knowingly take in chasing these Craigslist deals and saving some money.

Out of the dozens of good deals I've gotten over the years, if one or two of them end up getting confiscated after being proven to be stolen, I'm still way ahead in the overall equation. I wouldn't try and get my money back, and I would help the police out as much as I can to get the seller. As for being charged as an "accessory" to the theft, I'm just going to call it and say that would be incredibly unlikely. Fingers crossed.

Let's be clear on something. If someone OBVIOUSLY stole something, as in, they basically admit somehow that what they are selling is stolen and they're trying to offload it, I won't touch it. But a post with sketchy wording or a curiously low price doesn't automatically make it a stolen item.

I'm guessing you don't do much Craigslist buying and selling. That's okay, it's not for everyone. Leave the deal hunting for the ones who want to take these risks.

[excanonfd]

Oh, I doubt there's any real 'risk' involved in buying stolen goods from Craigslist. Tracking down stolen properties just don't rank all that high on the Vancouver Police' list of priorities. Phone in a B&E in East Vancouver, you'd be lucky if the cops show up within six hours.

If bargain hunting is everything and damned the ethics, all the power to ya. My last big purchase from Craigslist (K20D), I asked for the serial number of the camera which the seller provided, I printed 2 copies of the Bill of Sale the night before meeting with the buyer. Before I paid the seller for the camera, the seller filled in the Bill of sale with his personal information, including his BCDL and signed the copy which he gave back to me along with the camera case. Did I get a good deal, I thought so. When the K20D body was selling on the Craigslist for 500-550, I paid 600 for the K20D, K100DS, 18-55 (ver.1), 55-200 and an aluminum case. He also gave me his original receipts from Kerrisdale Cameras for both cameras. Perhaps not quite on the level of your find the F 50/1.7 as far as bargains go but I don't even bother chasing after something like that. I leave that up to the younger people who has the energy to chase it down.

[gofour3]

If you buy used photo gear from a camera store in Vancouver, it has aready been on hold for 30 days while a Police check is done.

Plus you get a proper bill of sale and return policy. Much better than dealing with Craigslist sellers.


Phil.

[EarlVonTapia]

I am pleasantly surprised to see the amount of BC'ers in this thread. It makes me wonder just how many of us there are in total on these forums.

If bargain hunting is everything and damned the ethics, all the power to ya. My last big purchase from Craigslist (K20D), I asked for the serial number of the camera which the seller provided, I printed 2 copies of the Bill of Sale the night before meeting with the buyer. Before I paid the seller for the camera, the seller filled in the Bill of sale with his personal information, including his BCDL and signed the copy which he gave back to me along with the camera case. Did I get a good deal, I thought so. When the K20D body was selling on the Craigslist for 500-550, I paid 600 for the K20D, K100DS, 18-55 (ver.1), 55-200 and an aluminum case. He also gave me his original receipts from Kerrisdale Cameras for both cameras. Perhaps not quite on the level of your find the F 50/1.7 as far as bargains go but I don't even bother chasing after something like that. I leave that up to the younger people who has the energy to chase it down.

I have to commend you on your thoroughness. I don't have the patience to take all of those steps for just a single transaction on Craigslist. I've only purchased 1 DSLR + a lens from Craigslist, but the transaction went through in a much simpler fashion. I asked him by email where he got it from, and he said Amazon. I took his word for it, and I didn't even ask to see a receipt or anything. We met at a Tim Horton's in Surrey. There was no box accompanying the camera or lens. We chatted while I looked at the gear. When it all checked out, I slipped him an envelope with close to $600 cash in it. He asked if he needed to count the money inside to make sure it was the right amount (he didn't want to count all of the bills there in the restaurant), and I said no. We nodded, shook hands, and parted ways. Haven't heard from him since, and I'm still happily using the lens I got from that sale (I sold off the DSLR for some profit through these forums).

If you buy used photo gear from a camera store in Vancouver, it has aready been on hold for 30 days while a Police check is done.

Plus you get a proper bill of sale and return policy. Much better than dealing with Craigslist sellers.


Phil.

Camera stores offer much less and sell for much higher than Craigslist prices. From that standpoint, no, it is not better to deal with camera stores than it is to deal with Craigslist people. However, that is the tradeoff. Buying used through camera shops has some safeties built in. Craigslist is more of a higher risk/higher reward environment.

But, to each their own.

[jogiba]

I think that can get murky.

See this post of mine. A $180 lens being sold quickly for less than half its price? But, he said he got it legitimately, and I took his word. He could have just stolen it from somewhere. Yet, I don't have psychic powers to verify his thoughts, so I didn't bother speculating. And if indeed it turned out to be from a theft or other unlawful means, I think I would be off the hook in that situation.

I've also offloaded many things on Craigslist for way cheaper than what they normally sell for, simply because I wanted a quick sale. Cell phones, a Galaxy Tab, video game accessories, furniture.

The selling price is a poor determinant for whether or not something is stolen.

I just checked the SMC Pentax-F 50mm F1.7 lens reviews here and the four lowest prices paid were $12, $15, $35 and $35 so I don't think just because a lens has a low price it must have been stolen. It could be that some people just don't know the true value of an old lens.

[gofour3]

I am pleasantly surprised to see the amount of BC'ers in this thread. It makes me wonder just how many of us there are in total on these forums.



I have to commend you on your thoroughness. I don't have the patience to take all of those steps for just a single transaction on Craigslist. I've only purchased 1 DSLR + a lens from Craigslist, but the transaction went through in a much simpler fashion. I asked him by email where he got it from, and he said Amazon. I took his word for it, and I didn't even ask to see a receipt or anything. We met at a Tim Horton's in Surrey. There was no box accompanying the camera or lens. We chatted while I looked at the gear. When it all checked out, I slipped him an envelope with close to $600 cash in it. He asked if he needed to count the money inside to make sure it was the right amount (he didn't want to count all of the bills there in the restaurant), and I said no. We nodded, shook hands, and parted ways. Haven't heard from him since, and I'm still happily using the lens I got from that sale (I sold off the DSLR for some profit through these forums).




Camera stores offer much less and sell for much higher than Craigslist prices. From that standpoint, no, it is not better to deal with camera stores than it is to deal with Craigslist people. However, that is the tradeoff. Buying used through camera shops has some safeties built in. Craigslist is more of a higher risk/higher reward environment.

But, to each their own.

Camera store used gear is actually priced very well, a lot lower than some eBay BIN auctions and lower than some Craigslist ads. The stores take these items in on trade-ins so they want them gone, not sitting on shelves for years.

Getting things for the cheapest price is not always the best route to go, even eBay has more protection than Cragislist.

Phil.

[sam-joseph]

An old thread, I know, but here's my current experience. I sold an Osawa 80-205 M42 lens on eBay, and waited a good week for payment($30 inc. post), before I opened an "unpaid item case". Payment arrived shortly after and I posted the lens after the long weekend. Then I receive bad feedback (up till now 100% positive), stating that the lens 'had issues' and postage was slow. The hide. The issue with the lens turned out to be zoom creep!?! I explained that the lens was a mid eighties design, in pristine as-new condition, except for internal haze as described, and if there was zoom creep ( which I hadn't noticed as a problem), then that's how it came out of the factory. As for slow postage, if payment hadn't been so slow, then postage would have been faster. I'm so angry that the buyer can make unnecessary damaging remarks, when I have no recourse. I was told by eBay that they do not allow sellers to place bad feedback for buyers. I've vented now. Thanks for listening. And e*******y if you're reading this, **** you.
Regards