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03-03-2008, 08:37 AM   #1
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Holy C**P have you seen this video??

According to CTV the plane didn't quite touch down and the cross winds were 250Kph!! They powered up and circled 3 more times before getting down safely.

There's no real sub forum for these threads so to the mod I hope this is OK.

YouTube - Lufthansa Airbus wingstrike at Hamburg

03-03-2008, 08:43 AM   #2
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oh wow that was really risky! LoL luckily they managed to land safely but shouldn't the flight have been diverted or something?
03-03-2008, 08:47 AM   #3
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Apparently it was wind sheer at ground level. The day was windy (last Saturday) but the wind sheer just came up and then died off a few minutes later. Everyone was OK but shaken. Nothing else was reported.
03-03-2008, 08:53 AM   #4
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I saw that on Canada AM. As a pilot I can say that landings are touchy at best and that was downright frightening. Kudos to the pilot to be able to regain control and do it again successfully. Sure looks like the wing struck the runway. It does not look like 250 kph of a crosswind. The camera man would not be able to stand up in that kind of turbulence. Whatever the strength in kph - it was damn near too much!


Last edited by J.Scott; 03-03-2008 at 08:58 AM.
03-03-2008, 08:56 AM   #5
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This is so scary: Hi-res Photo
03-03-2008, 10:26 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by ankit Quote
This is so scary: Hi-res Photo
so that is what the little winglets are for?

To me, it looks like the cross wind was in excess of what the plane is rated to land in.

This is not a question of wind shear but poor judgement.
03-03-2008, 11:19 AM   #7
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Lufthansa jet 'within split second of crashing' after wingtip hits runway in freak winds
By ALLAN HALL - More by this author » Last updated at 16:58pm on 3rd March 2008 Daily Mail.

German aviation authorities have praised the pilot of a jet that came within a split second of crashing during a violent storm.

Experts said the powerful storm system "Emma" almost caused all 137 people aboard an Airbus A320 plane to lose their lives in the near-disaster they described as "unprecedented" in the country's aviation history.

Powerful 155 mph winds battered the Lufthansa jet from Munich on its approach on Saturday into Hamburg airport.

The first attempt to land was aborted as a wingtip brushed the ground and the pilot fought to keep control of his aircraft.

The Lufthansa jet nearly crashed as it attempted a dramatic landing at Hamburg airport during a wind storm on Saturday

He was forced to climb, circle and come in again with passengers told to brace themselves for a bumpy landing.

"Those few seconds were indescribable," one passenger told German television station N-TV after arriving safely on the ground.

A spokesman for Lufthansa said some of the passengers were badly shaken.

"Many did not handle it well," said Wolfgang Weber.

"Some were near tears."

A spokesman for the organization German Flight Safety, Axel Raab, said that the attempted landing was more dramatic than any incident he could recall in German domestic aviation history.

"It's extreme - I haven't yet seen anything like that at a German airport," said Raab. "The pilot was a real hero."

Rg.
03-03-2008, 11:28 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxamillion Quote
Lufthansa jet 'within split second of crashing' after wingtip hits runway in freak winds
By ALLAN HALL - More by this author » Last updated at 16:58pm on 3rd March 2008 Daily Mail.

German aviation authorities have praised the pilot of a jet that came within a split second of crashing during a violent storm.

Experts said the powerful storm system "Emma" almost caused all 137 people aboard an Airbus A320 plane to lose their lives in the near-disaster they described as "unprecedented" in the country's aviation history.

Powerful 155 mph winds battered the Lufthansa jet from Munich on its approach on Saturday into Hamburg airport.

The first attempt to land was aborted as a wingtip brushed the ground and the pilot fought to keep control of his aircraft.

The Lufthansa jet nearly crashed as it attempted a dramatic landing at Hamburg airport during a wind storm on Saturday

He was forced to climb, circle and come in again with passengers told to brace themselves for a bumpy landing.

"Those few seconds were indescribable," one passenger told German television station N-TV after arriving safely on the ground.

A spokesman for Lufthansa said some of the passengers were badly shaken.

"Many did not handle it well," said Wolfgang Weber.

"Some were near tears."

A spokesman for the organization German Flight Safety, Axel Raab, said that the attempted landing was more dramatic than any incident he could recall in German domestic aviation history.

"It's extreme - I haven't yet seen anything like that at a German airport," said Raab. "The pilot was a real hero."

Rg.
I would have to question, as I said before why the pilot elected to attempt to land at all and I don't believe the 155 mph winds, the camera man would be blown away.

The issue is not the wind but the fact it is a cross wind. Just look at the angle of the airplane to counteract the wind and have the plane in line with the runway.

03-03-2008, 11:52 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I would have to question, as I said before why the pilot elected to attempt to land at all and I don't believe the 155 mph winds, the camera man would be blown away.

The issue is not the wind but the fact it is a cross wind. Just look at the angle of the airplane to counteract the wind and have the plane in line with the runway.
Could be lots of reasons. I actually believe the pilot did an amazing job and don't question his actions.

Maybe it's fuel related? Maybe the tower said it was safe? Maybe strong winds are typical at the airport? etc...

There are lots of runways that experience strong winds consistently across the world.

Looks like it's a very strong unexpected gust that took the plane off it's course.

On a lighter note, what lens do you think they were using for that photo?
03-03-2008, 11:54 AM   #10
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Yikes, that was bad indeed !

On a related note, Hong Kong's Kai-Tak airport (now closed) was famous for its cramped approach and crosswinds. A few examples:

YouTube - Korean Airliness Hong Kong Landing
YouTube - Japan Airlines Boeing 747 crosswind landing Hong Kong
YouTube - Malaysia Airlines Boeing 747 steep turn landing at Hong Kong
03-03-2008, 12:08 PM   #11
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Lowell,

I believe the reporter should have said gusts and maybe 150km/h

Before retiring I spent 30 years in the aviation industry, including many hours of flight control systems test evaluations, in and out of the cockpit.
I have experienced lots of very high wind gusts and wind shear situations, real and lab controlled.

All I can say is, why did the captain attempt to land in those known conditions ?

Split second reactions by the pilots and lots of luck saved the day.

This time they are heroes, next time maybe not !!!

Rg.

Last edited by maxamillion; 03-03-2008 at 12:18 PM.
03-03-2008, 12:21 PM   #12
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I question why the Captain of that aircraft even attemped landing. From the video, it appears that he has greater than a 20 degree steering correction while on approach.

While his recovery was skillful, his decision to complete the approach was very questionable.

As an experienced pilot, I would never had made that attempt.

Ed
03-03-2008, 12:55 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxamillion Quote
Lowell,

I believe the reporter should have said gusts and maybe 150km/h

Before retiring I spent 30 years in the aviation industry, including many hours of flight control systems test evaluations, in and out of the cockpit.
I have experienced lots of very high wind gusts and wind shear situations, real and lab controlled.

All I can say is, why did the captain attempt to land in those known conditions ?
that is my point, WHY???

QuoteQuote:
Split second reactions by the pilots and lots of luck saved the day.

This time they are heroes, next time maybe not !!!

Rg.
I agree, there are lots of examples of pilots doing incredible bits of flying after they got themselves into a tight spot.

- Look at the airbut that ran out of fuel over the atlantic and landed dead stick in the azores all because the pilot didn't manage fuel and a fuel leak
- look at the 767 that landed dead stick outside winnipeg because the pilot got fowled up in imperial to metric conversions
- look at the 747 that lost 30,000 feet and flipped over several times (ultimately saved by the pilot) because the he mismanaged an engine problem and got so tied up in micromanaging another crewmember he forgot to fly the plane in the process

There is a very long list. While I am not a flyer myself, I spend probably 4 hours per week in an airplane. It makes me wonder some times, when I see things like that.
03-03-2008, 01:25 PM   #14
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I've been flying (as a passenger) since 1971, the last time just yesterday. More and more, I am very fearful on take-off and landings. Almost getting to the point where it might be a good idea to sedate me first. If I were a passenger on that Lufthansa ship, I doubt I would ever fly again in this life. That pilot should lose his license and never be allowed to fly passengers again. He did a excellent job saving the ship, but exercised poor judgment in even making an attempt in those conditions.
03-03-2008, 01:51 PM   #15
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Problem with pilots these days is...................

Beginning in the late 1940s and up through the 1970s, there was a pool of experienced pilots available from which the airlines drew thier candidates for flight deck positions.

WW2, Korea, Viet Nam and the cold war build up produced an untold number of experienced, high hour pilots.

Today, most airlines, including Lufthansa, draw pilots who have built thier time flying right seat as instructors then moving up to flying turbine aircraft for UPS, FedEx, DHL & etc. and eventually make thier way to the airlines.

Gone are the days of the 3 pilot flight deck. A Captain, First Officer and Flight Engineer. Most all aircraft today utilize only two pilots with the First Officer picking up all of the duties once performed by the Engineer. Flying for an Airline is a grueling job with a high attrition rate and many of the Captains flying today would have barely qualified as engineers 30 years ago. Subsequently, the skill and judgement that were once on that flight deck are now gone. Couple that with the Public/Government/Air Carriers push for on-time performance and you have pilots trying to land in conditions (The Lufthansa flight) that as recently as 15 years ago would have required flying to, and landing, at an alternate aiport.

The only commercial flying I do anymore is that which is mandate by my job. Other wise I either fly myself or drive to my destination.

Ed
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