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03-27-2013, 06:54 PM   #1
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03-27-2013, 07:02 PM   #2
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One wonders if the almighty phamaceutical companies will let this happen! ???

You often have to question the "research" vs. the economics of loosing millions of cancer-strickened people.

My ten cents.

Thanks for sharing -- very informative.

JP
03-27-2013, 09:46 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
One wonders if the almighty phamaceutical companies will let this happen! ???

You often have to question the "research" vs. the economics of loosing millions of cancer-strickened people.

My ten cents.

Thanks for sharing -- very informative.

JP
Can't take greed out of the system, even in Canada?
03-28-2013, 06:37 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Can't take greed out of the system, even in Canada?
They should work for no incentive? That's one way to get rid of these "greedy" "problem" companies.

03-28-2013, 06:45 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by arnold Quote
They should work for no incentive? That's one way to get rid of these "greedy" "problem" companies.
I didn't say they couldn't earn a profit. JPZK claimed that the Phrama companies would have no incentive to make this cure when they make a lot of money off sick cancer sufferers, using traditional medicines. It was a pretty cynical statement, but not too unbelievable. Pharma can always make a profit off fat pills and viagra, no need to hold back life saving cures.
03-28-2013, 01:50 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
I didn't say they couldn't earn a profit. JPZK claimed that the Phrama companies would have no incentive to make this cure when they make a lot of money off sick cancer sufferers, using traditional medicines. It was a pretty cynical statement, but not too unbelievable. Pharma can always make a profit off fat pills and viagra, no need to hold back life saving cures.
Except it's not just the pharmaceutical companies that would like to squash it. The entire medical community would suffer from a discovery such as this, and thus be disinclined to accept it. Am I cynical? You better believe it! After dealing with the medical community, both during our daughter's life long heath issues as well as being a negotiator for health care benefits for hundreds of thousands of people, I'm not cynical, I'm downright convinced.
03-28-2013, 01:57 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
Except it's not just the pharmaceutical companies that would like to squash it. The entire medical community would suffer from a discovery such as this, and thus be disinclined to accept it. Am I cynical? You better believe it! After dealing with the medical community, both during our daughter's life long heath issues as well as being a negotiator for health care benefits for hundreds of thousands of people, I'm not cynical, I'm downright convinced.
Well, I'm sure there are some who would act like you say. Tell you what, though - my wife would absofrickinglutely LOVE to have something like this and not have to tell another patient they have cancer. Those broad brushes do NOT cover everyone, I don't care how cynical or convinced you might be.

jim
03-28-2013, 02:12 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by RoxnDox Quote
Well, I'm sure there are some who would act like you say. Tell you what, though - my wife would absofrickinglutely LOVE to have something like this and not have to tell another patient they have cancer. Those broad brushes do NOT cover everyone, I don't care how cynical or convinced you might be.

jim
There are always exceptions. Unfortunately, that's what they are - exceptions.

03-28-2013, 02:27 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
There are always exceptions. Unfortunately, that's what they are - exceptions.
I'm sure many people in the field care about their patients, it's the pencil pushers behind the scenes. The medical establishment will always make money though. Once immediate/dire situations are solved, lesser concerns become more important(It's been that way since we were living in caves). Artificial knees, artificial hearts, cosmetic surgery, cloned organ transplants. Then there's the super bugs of the present/future to worry about. They're only going to find more and more ways to make money. Businesses do have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into a new model though; look at the entertainment industry.

Last edited by kenafein; 03-28-2013 at 02:37 PM.
03-28-2013, 05:35 PM   #10
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All this makes me wonder why shares in these "greedy" companies don't do a lot better. I for one, lost money investing in one of them because of poor returns..
03-28-2013, 06:45 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by arnold Quote
All this makes me wonder why shares in these "greedy" companies don't do a lot better. I for one, lost money investing in one of them because of poor returns..
12 companies in the fortune 500, not bad.
03-28-2013, 07:49 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by arnold Quote
All this makes me wonder why shares in these "greedy" companies don't do a lot better. I for one, lost money investing in one of them because of poor returns..
I have a friend who is a clinical psychologist who studies drug addition and works with recovering addicts. They use what he calls a "resentment test". They ask a patient to make a list of things that they resent about other people. Since people tend to project themselves when describing other people you can find out a lot about a person by getting them to describe other people. If you directly ask a person about themselves, they tend to try and project what they want you to believe.

Anyway, "Greedy" is a term of resentment. People don't describe themselves as greedy. It is always the other guy who is greedy. Every time I hear someone describe someone else as "greedy" I think about this test.
03-28-2013, 08:18 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I have a friend who is a clinical psychologist who studies drug addition and works with recovering addicts. They use what he calls a "resentment test". They ask a patient to make a list of things that they resent about other people. Since people tend to project themselves when describing other people you can find out a lot about a person by getting them to describe other people. If you directly ask a person about themselves, they tend to try and project what they want you to believe.

Anyway, "Greedy" is a term of resentment. People don't describe themselves as greedy. It is always the other guy who is greedy. Every time I hear someone describe someone else as "greedy" I think about this test.
Interesting, that would make it impossible to make an observation about anyone, because you'd always be projecting, how inconvenient. Does the test apply to faceless organizations?
03-28-2013, 08:41 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by RoxnDox Quote
Well, I'm sure there are some who would act like you say. Tell you what, though - my wife would absofrickinglutely LOVE to have something like this and not have to tell another patient they have cancer. Those broad brushes do NOT cover everyone, I don't care how cynical or convinced you might be.

jim
There are thousands of individual doctors who do it because they love to help other people. I know a couple of them. My wife left a career in legal marketing to go back to school to become a nurse practitioner after losing her mother to a brain tumor. One of her best friends is an OB-GYN.

The industry however is different. The money is in research and treatment, not curing. There is no money in a healthy population. Diabetes is a goldmine disease. The patient will live for decades on insulin before diabetic neuropathy sets in or renal failure. Even then the patient can live for years on dialysis. Diabetes (type II) is a curable disease, but the money is in treating it with insulin and eventually dialysis over a period of years. The system is designed to treat people which is profitable, not cure people. A program that provides free insulin simply treats people and makes drug companies rich, but it cures nobody.
03-28-2013, 09:32 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Interesting, that would make it impossible to make an observation about anyone, because you'd always be projecting, how inconvenient. Does the test apply to faceless organizations?
I don't know. I'm not sure where else the test is used. He works exclusively with addiction and the psychology of it. He worked in the prison system before he got his PhD. Dealing with people who house a lot of resentment.

In a clinical setting the patient is much more defensive and direct lines of questioning probably won't work well. If you get them to describe other people the walls come down pretty fast. By asking someone what they resent about person "X" you can uncover a lot.

You only resent a person if they have something you can never have, or they can do something you can never do. If you believe you goal is achievable, then you won't resent those who have already achieved it, you will probably look up to them or idolize them (role models). If you believe the goal is not achievable then you are much more likely to resent those who have already achieved it.

"Greed" is a key word for resentment. It is almost always used to describe other people who have achieved monetary success, and it is almost always used by people who have achieved a lower level of success. Rarely do you hear people of the same level of monetary success refer to each other as greedy unless they are politics.

The concept of greed is totally subjective. There is no scientific unit of measure for greed. There is no scientific coloration between greed and wealth accumulation. If you are 2x as greedy next year how much more money will you make? You will probably make less money the greedier you become.
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