Seller Protection on Paypal?

voyager13 · 04-01-2013, 11:40 PM

Hi Guys,

I haven't started to put out items in the Pentax Forums marketplace yet, though would like to, but here's a situation where I hold back:

Lets's say I put out an ad in the marketplace, I get a response from a PF member in another country and we agree on the price. The buyer sends me money via Paypal, I see and confirm that the money has landed into my Paypal account by logging into my Paypal account. All good so far.
Now, what's stopping the buyer from pretending that he/she never received the item I sold and sent? I know I could send 'signed for', but will that be enough evidence to prove the goods had been delivered when the buyer would shout out to Paypal to return his/her money as he never got the item from me? Can that 'signed for' piece of paper stand against the buyers word in Paypal's books?

As much as I have read, heard and experienced, Paypal almost always is partial to the buyer, which can put me, the seller, into a losing proposition.
Any suggestions on getting a foolproof sale so that I know the buyer cannot deny that I had sent the item and he/she had received it?

Adam · 04-01-2013, 11:52 PM

While paypal does tend to stay on the buyer's side, as long as you have evidence of shipping, your money should be safe. When you ship internationally, always use EMS so that you get proper tracking and delivery information.

Someone once tried to scam me on ebay- I sold a laptop for $1500 several years ago, then the buyer opens a dispute. I provided paypal with proof that I shipped the item and they closed the claim.

voyager13 · 04-02-2013, 12:04 AM

That's good to know Adam. I wonder if the EMS sent-receipt as proof would display what exactly had been sent, to whom and what address? If those three things would be there on the sent-receipt, than it becomes water-proof in the sellers favour, but otherwise can there be problems with those details that the buyer may, with obvious bad intentions, try to make Paypal believe otherwise?

**Kerrowdown** · 04-02-2013, 02:24 AM

I must admit I've always found PayPal to be very good when resolving issues as both a buyer and a seller.

I'm not sure that any method is 100% guaranteed, but PayPal's pretty close, hope that helps allay your fears.

voyager13 · 04-02-2013, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by kerrowdown

I must admit I've always found PayPal to be very good when resolving issues as both a buyer and a seller.

I'm not sure that any method is 100% guaranteed, but PayPal's pretty close, hope that helps allay your fears.

That sounds reassuring Kerrowdown.
It will be interesting to know if there are any sellers here on PF who had an experience where they have had problems with Paypal. I am not trying to sound negative here but just cautious. This can help those would-be sellers by knowing what may be possible so that they can take steps before anything happens.

wlachan · 04-02-2013, 02:38 AM

"Tracking" is the key. Ship it with tracking # so that Paypal will be able to confirm the package was shipped and delivered. The proof of shipping alone is not enough, I know as I was burnt before. Also, make sure the payment was "cleared" before shipping.

johnyates · 04-02-2013, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by wlachan

"Tracking" is the key. Ship it with tracking # so that Paypal will be able to confirm the package was shipped and delivered.

And ship only to the buyer's confirmed paypal address. Both of these conditions will give you protection.

vonBaloney · 04-02-2013, 12:58 PM

When shipping cross-borders, you protection as a seller is indeed less, and buyers CAN get away with scamming you by claiming they didn't get it, or they got it but it wasn't what they ordered or was broken. (Documentation of shipping doesn't help you there.) You are not forced to sell to anyone just cause they want it (unlike on ebay, where it is a big hassle to block a particular buyer just because they seem sketchy to you), so I stick to people that have established feedback here (and hopefully participate in other ways), etc, etc. (Depends on value of item as well.) If it doesn't feel right, don't do it. The fact is, there is always SOME risk, so just keep your BS meter on and judge accordingly. That said, there isn't really any better method than PayPal...

Phil1 · 04-02-2013, 07:40 PM

PayPal only or CIF...(Cash in Fist) Shipping USP is just fine, ship insured with delivery signature required. The Hope diamond as well as most bullion dealers use USP, signature/insured fully. If shipping is required to a flaky country then don't accept the deal. UPS and FedEx are usually more expensive. UPS can leave packages on the door step so inquire about a signature delivery or a pick up at the shippers facility. Of course check sellers and buyers history here. That should tell you a lot.

Medium FormatPro · 04-03-2013, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

When shipping cross-borders, you protection as a seller is indeed less, and buyers CAN get away with scamming you by claiming they didn't get it, or they got it but it wasn't what they ordered or was broken. (Documentation of shipping doesn't help you there.) You are not forced to sell to anyone just cause they want it (unlike on ebay, where it is a big hassle to block a particular buyer just because they seem sketchy to you), so I stick to people that have established feedback here (and hopefully participate in other ways), etc, etc. (Depends on value of item as well.) If it doesn't feel right, don't do it. The fact is, there is always SOME risk, so just keep your BS meter on and judge accordingly. That said, there isn't really any better method than PayPal...

Good point; that no matter to so called perceived level of protection; that it is also next to nothing (basically a gamble) when crossing borders, but there are exceptions.

There are numerous companies such as PayPal which are considering adding in levels of identity protection; to be able to literally trace computers (even so far as down to the chip level - quite similar to computer theft tracing methods); to live follow communications (and to ban out internet cafe's and public connections - which are frequently used to scam from). Even so far as to use items such as passport numbers being held by third parties such as PayPal, and other forms of nationwide identification.

magkelly · 04-03-2013, 07:06 AM

Just an FYI, that is not always safe and Pay Pal does not automatically protect sellers even with a shipping receipt. These days people sending bricks instead of merchandise is becoming quite a common thing and Pay Pal has gotten a lot tougher about proving that things were sent and refunds, particularly when it involves payments sent out of the USA. I'm on a couple of different doll boards and in the past couple of years I've seen several people lose some very expensive dolls and/or a lot of money and Pay Pal did not refund their money even with a postal receipt. A few people on my board have taken to taking a camera with them, taking a last pic of the thing sent in the box, showing another pic with the postal employee sealing the box, and it going off into the mail bins for extra proof. A couple have even done video of themselves doing the whole thing from packing to sending and getting a receipt just to show in case of situations like this. A lot of them won't ship out of the USA either.

I personally will not use Pay Pal. I just don't trust them after seeing several people out several hundred dollars and Pay Pal not backing them up as promised. It's one of the reasons I signed up for Amazon Payments recently instead. Amazon has never let me down in the entire decade that I've been shopping with them. If I have a problem I call them right up and they take care of it. In fact they're taking care of something for me right now as I type, rectifying a situation where a seller is selling a bogus product under several different names apparently. I thought I was buying a legit product. As of last night he won't take it back. They sent me a return label to directly return it and they are going after him and they will likely remove him from the site and make sure he stays gone.

Would Pay Pal be that accommodating or as fast to act? I'm not so sure. For every person that's told me that Pay Pal is perfectly safe over the years I've now heard at least one horror story of how someone on my doll boards lived to regret using them. My credit union will not do business with them at all now actually. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in me. At least with Amazon I have a phone number. I can talk to a person....

04-01-2013, 11:40 PM	#1
voyager13 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 211	Seller Protection on Paypal? Hi Guys, I haven't started to put out items in the Pentax Forums marketplace yet, though would like to, but here's a situation where I hold back: Lets's say I put out an ad in the marketplace, I get a response from a PF member in another country and we agree on the price. The buyer sends me money via Paypal, I see and confirm that the money has landed into my Paypal account by logging into my Paypal account. All good so far. Now, what's stopping the buyer from pretending that he/she never received the item I sold and sent? I know I could send 'signed for', but will that be enough evidence to prove the goods had been delivered when the buyer would shout out to Paypal to return his/her money as he never got the item from me? Can that 'signed for' piece of paper stand against the buyers word in Paypal's books? As much as I have read, heard and experienced, Paypal almost always is partial to the buyer, which can put me, the seller, into a losing proposition. Any suggestions on getting a foolproof sale so that I know the buyer cannot deny that I had sent the item and he/she had received it?

04-01-2013, 11:52 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	While paypal does tend to stay on the buyer's side, as long as you have evidence of shipping, your money should be safe. When you ship internationally, always use EMS so that you get proper tracking and delivery information. Someone once tried to scam me on ebay- I sold a laptop for $1500 several years ago, then the buyer opens a dispute. I provided paypal with proof that I shipped the item and they closed the claim. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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04-02-2013, 12:04 AM	#3
voyager13 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 211 Original Poster	That's good to know Adam. I wonder if the EMS sent-receipt as proof would display what exactly had been sent, to whom and what address? If those three things would be there on the sent-receipt, than it becomes water-proof in the sellers favour, but otherwise can there be problems with those details that the buyer may, with obvious bad intentions, try to make Paypal believe otherwise?

04-02-2013, 02:24 AM	#4
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,833	I must admit I've always found PayPal to be very good when resolving issues as both a buyer and a seller. I'm not sure that any method is 100% guaranteed, but PayPal's pretty close, hope that helps allay your fears.

04-02-2013, 02:30 AM	#5
voyager13 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 211 Original Poster	Originally posted by kerrowdown I must admit I've always found PayPal to be very good when resolving issues as both a buyer and a seller. I'm not sure that any method is 100% guaranteed, but PayPal's pretty close, hope that helps allay your fears. That sounds reassuring Kerrowdown. It will be interesting to know if there are any sellers here on PF who had an experience where they have had problems with Paypal. I am not trying to sound negative here but just cautious. This can help those would-be sellers by knowing what may be possible so that they can take steps before anything happens.

04-02-2013, 02:38 AM	#6
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	"Tracking" is the key. Ship it with tracking # so that Paypal will be able to confirm the package was shipped and delivered. The proof of shipping alone is not enough, I know as I was burnt before. Also, make sure the payment was "cleared" before shipping.

04-02-2013, 12:49 PM	#7
johnyates Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Saskatoon, SK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,345	Originally posted by wlachan "Tracking" is the key. Ship it with tracking # so that Paypal will be able to confirm the package was shipped and delivered. And ship only to the buyer's confirmed paypal address. Both of these conditions will give you protection.

04-02-2013, 12:58 PM	#8
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	When shipping cross-borders, you protection as a seller is indeed less, and buyers CAN get away with scamming you by claiming they didn't get it, or they got it but it wasn't what they ordered or was broken. (Documentation of shipping doesn't help you there.) You are not forced to sell to anyone just cause they want it (unlike on ebay, where it is a big hassle to block a particular buyer just because they seem sketchy to you), so I stick to people that have established feedback here (and hopefully participate in other ways), etc, etc. (Depends on value of item as well.) If it doesn't feel right, don't do it. The fact is, there is always SOME risk, so just keep your BS meter on and judge accordingly. That said, there isn't really any better method than PayPal...

04-02-2013, 07:40 PM	#9
Phil1 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,292	PayPal only or CIF...(Cash in Fist) Shipping USP is just fine, ship insured with delivery signature required. The Hope diamond as well as most bullion dealers use USP, signature/insured fully. If shipping is required to a flaky country then don't accept the deal. UPS and FedEx are usually more expensive. UPS can leave packages on the door step so inquire about a signature delivery or a pick up at the shippers facility. Of course check sellers and buyers history here. That should tell you a lot.

04-03-2013, 06:31 AM	#10
Medium FormatPro Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh Photos: Albums Posts: 1,668	Originally posted by vonBaloney When shipping cross-borders, you protection as a seller is indeed less, and buyers CAN get away with scamming you by claiming they didn't get it, or they got it but it wasn't what they ordered or was broken. (Documentation of shipping doesn't help you there.) You are not forced to sell to anyone just cause they want it (unlike on ebay, where it is a big hassle to block a particular buyer just because they seem sketchy to you), so I stick to people that have established feedback here (and hopefully participate in other ways), etc, etc. (Depends on value of item as well.) If it doesn't feel right, don't do it. The fact is, there is always SOME risk, so just keep your BS meter on and judge accordingly. That said, there isn't really any better method than PayPal... Good point; that no matter to so called perceived level of protection; that it is also next to nothing (basically a gamble) when crossing borders, but there are exceptions. There are numerous companies such as PayPal which are considering adding in levels of identity protection; to be able to literally trace computers (even so far as down to the chip level - quite similar to computer theft tracing methods); to live follow communications (and to ban out internet cafe's and public connections - which are frequently used to scam from). Even so far as to use items such as passport numbers being held by third parties such as PayPal, and other forms of nationwide identification.

04-03-2013, 07:06 AM	#11
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	Just an FYI, that is not always safe and Pay Pal does not automatically protect sellers even with a shipping receipt. These days people sending bricks instead of merchandise is becoming quite a common thing and Pay Pal has gotten a lot tougher about proving that things were sent and refunds, particularly when it involves payments sent out of the USA. I'm on a couple of different doll boards and in the past couple of years I've seen several people lose some very expensive dolls and/or a lot of money and Pay Pal did not refund their money even with a postal receipt. A few people on my board have taken to taking a camera with them, taking a last pic of the thing sent in the box, showing another pic with the postal employee sealing the box, and it going off into the mail bins for extra proof. A couple have even done video of themselves doing the whole thing from packing to sending and getting a receipt just to show in case of situations like this. A lot of them won't ship out of the USA either. I personally will not use Pay Pal. I just don't trust them after seeing several people out several hundred dollars and Pay Pal not backing them up as promised. It's one of the reasons I signed up for Amazon Payments recently instead. Amazon has never let me down in the entire decade that I've been shopping with them. If I have a problem I call them right up and they take care of it. In fact they're taking care of something for me right now as I type, rectifying a situation where a seller is selling a bogus product under several different names apparently. I thought I was buying a legit product. As of last night he won't take it back. They sent me a return label to directly return it and they are going after him and they will likely remove him from the site and make sure he stays gone. Would Pay Pal be that accommodating or as fast to act? I'm not so sure. For every person that's told me that Pay Pal is perfectly safe over the years I've now heard at least one horror story of how someone on my doll boards lived to regret using them. My credit union will not do business with them at all now actually. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in me. At least with Amazon I have a phone number. I can talk to a person....