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05-20-2013, 02:16 AM   #16
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Thanks for all the replies.

I'm currently uploading some pics, they aren't particularly good, but they at least show what it looks like.


As for use, it's more just a way for me to try out something I've not used before since it;s there.
I bought the unit with the intention of removing the internals and making it a liquor cabinet... but when I found out it still (almost) works I felt that it's too good to gut.


So far I've tracked down a service manual for it, it looks like I need to do some oiling (the motor seems a little stiff, the grease has thickened over time)


Thanks for all the tips about needles/stylii/cartidges.
I'll do some experimentation and see if I can work out why it;s silent.

There's no sound even when I move the needle over my finger. So that suggests either a dead cartridge, bad wiring, or maybe a bad pre-amp (not sure if this unit has one..... I'll need to read a bit more)

05-20-2013, 02:18 AM   #17
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05-20-2013, 03:33 AM   #18
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ok.

I took off the end of the arm and had a better look at the needle etc.
The needle is certainly worn.

But I also noticed that one of the wires leading to the cartridge had broken off, I re-soldered it back and noticed that now when I use the player I can get music.

BUT, it's very quiet, and very faint.
And the volume knob does nothing.

The only way I can describe it is it sounds like there's a tiny little speaker underneath the turntable deck.

I'm assuming there isnt, why would they have made an exensive cabinet and seakers only to use a tiny little separate speaker for records?
05-20-2013, 09:07 AM   #19
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What you're hearing is called needle talk, and it is caused by the vibration of the stylus assembly. From the photo you almost certainly have a ceramic or crystal cartridge, of the turnover variety, as indicated by th little lever on the front of the tone arm. Try to find a maker's name on the cartridge, then perhaps you can tell whether its crystal or ceramic. If crystal, try replacing it; they aren't expensive. If ceramic you may have troubles elsewhere.

BTW, there should be little push-on connectors to the cartridge. Soldering directly to the cartridge is not recommended.

Does the radio work? Have you been able to test the tubes? That could be a real challenge!
Good luck!

05-20-2013, 09:12 AM   #20
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Very nice! You may have to clean the old grease off the spindle first before you lube it. You could also try spraying the switches and volume pots with deoxit as they may be dirty/corroded. A dirty switch could prevent the table from playing. If you can see the tubes somehow, you could check to see if they all light up/glow when the unit is on. Does the radio work? It looks to be in very good shape so it probably wouldn't take a lot to get it going.
05-21-2013, 12:08 AM   #21
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Thank you all for the help and interest.

To answer some questions:

Yes, the radio works fine. It picks up channels clearly, and the controls seem to all work.
The left hand speaker however does not seem to work, Iím not certain if this is because itís broken, or if itís just how AM radio transmits (ie: mono)

The other thing not working is the little control to alter the balance, it seems to make no difference. But again, this might just be because itís playing a presumably mono signal.

The cartridge has ďRonetteĒ marked on itís sides. It wasnít until after I soldered the wire on that I noticed there was a removable fitting. I did solder onto the fitting luckily, but didnít realize it was removable. So unfortunately a small bit of the plastic on the back of the cartridge got some heat damage. (hopefully itís just cosmetic)

The valves inside the unit do light up, I didnít take not the other day if they all did, but when I get a chance Iíll have another look and see if any are dark.



Once again, thank you all for the help. Itís just as interesting hearing stories etc about these as it is toying with one to make it work again.

Next on the list is to clear off some of the old hardened grease, and apply some newer grease/oil.


I assume some isopropyl alcohol on a cotton bud would be the best way to clean the old grease off? (ie: isopropyl wonít degrade any of the old rubbers etc in the area?)
05-21-2013, 08:53 AM   #22
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As I recall Ronette is a crystal pickup. It may have packed it in over the years, or sadly the soldering iron may have wrecked it. A replacement shouldn't be expensive, get a diamond stylus. If you can "unplug" the left channel speaker(s) touch the speaker wires to a flashlight cell. A working speaker will produce a crackling sound. Generally mono signals are sent to both channels; get some spray cleaner made for cleaning contacts (if it says safe for TV turret channel selector its what you want) from a Radio Shack or such and spray in in the control. Denatured alcohol is perhaps better than isopropyl; don't use rubbing alcohol it has additives you don't want on the idler drive wheel. Probably better to replace that, you should be able to find such on line.
05-31-2013, 12:57 AM   #23
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Ok, first of all, apolgies for the lack of updates, I've not had much chance to play with this for a while (busy at work + health issues)

Anyway, I've looked properly, and I can confirm that all the valves are lighting up.

I tested the speakers, both speakers work, it must be the amp that's got a dead channel (I swapped the plugs left/right, and it also swapped which speaker was silent)

I've had more of a look at the record player part. No matter what I've tried, still not a sound from the speakers. record, finger taps, absolutely nothing from the stylus.

There's also an issue where the stupid player seems to not want to stop attempting to do the automatic record changer feature, but that I think is more an issue of user error than anything. (and the manual is pretty ambiguous)


Anyway, when I removed the turntable I had a look at the bits under it, the motor is spinning freely. The rubber transfer wheel is in good condition and seems to spin well (I wiped the friction surfaces with a dry cloth to remove dust etc)

The intermittent speed seems to be related to the auto arm movement, it seems that when the arm tries to lift and move it puts a bit too much force and the motor just can't turn the whole lot (or the wheel might be slipping?)

So yeah, first step is to try to get some sound coming out. The rest can be fixed with lubrication etc (it's all clockwork stuff)

05-31-2013, 02:39 PM   #24
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Your diagnosis of slippage is probably on the mark. Combined with hardened lubricant in the linkage to move the arm and drop the next record and the motor can't do its job. The rubber "tire" or "tyre" on the idler wheel tends to harden over time, and thus can't transmit power. About the only fix for hardened rubber is replacement.
05-31-2013, 02:48 PM   #25
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That's the odd thing, the rubber felt soft and pliable to me.
Still hard enough to hold it's shape without deforming, but still soft enough that it has a bit of grip if I run my finger on it.


I think it's more to do with the arm/lubricant/mechanism.
Even turning the table by hand there's a distinct increase in the force required once the arm starts to move off/onto it's rest (it goes from one spin giving ~2 free rotations, to one spin giving 1/4 rotation.


Although, I did jsut realise, perhaps when I removed the table and replaced it, the little cams on the underside of the table are not where the machine expects them?
The service manual didn't mention having to line them up again, but perhaps it's clicking the brake on too early or something?
06-09-2013, 01:40 PM   #26
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Welcome to the Great Vinyl Debate. As a keen owner of a Linn Sondek LP12 I can say that you're in for a real treat when it's all up and working. That's a fine piece of vintage audio you have there.

Regarding your Garrard:
QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote
That's the odd thing, the rubber felt soft and pliable to me.
Still hard enough to hold it's shape without deforming, but still soft enough that it has a bit of grip if I run my finger on it.
Pliable isn't necessary the best,. The rubber has to grip both the turntable and the motor and not slip. Also check the underside of the turntable and the motor spindle. Both will likely need cleaning (don't use sandpaper or similar - use a pencil eraser) In the UK when I worked for the BBC, we were taught to use Swarfega (a grease remover) to clean the rubber surface of pinch rollers of our Studer A80 tape recorders so that the smoothness of the roller was removed without changing its circumference. If you can get the idler wheel off you could try this and see if it improves things. Get rid of the swarfega with plain water - no soap - and dry it thoroughly.

Also - for setting up the stylus on the cartridge, try resting the stylus on a mirror placed on the turntable mat. A good excuse to try your hand at macro photography - get that stylus in close focus and make sure it's straight and true (the stylus and reflection are parallel with each other when viewed from the front) and that the weight is set correctly. Too much weight and the cantilever will gouge you a new groove in your record. Too little and it'll skate across the surface.

If you have a problem hearing any records you play then you obviously need to establish why. Here you are a bit helpless without the circuit diagram - or at least a list of the valves in the set. Be warned that valves (or Tubes in the USA) run high voltages that are dangerous, so a healthy regard for safety is the first tip I can offer.

Most valves have a number printed on the glass envelope and you need a list of these to help build up the circuit in order to know where / how to look for the faults. Again, some pictures of the markings on the valves may help others on the forum help you, so some more pictures please... If you have the circuit diagram this would help - quite often this would be stuck on the inside of the set as a guide to the radiogram repairers of old, so look round at the set.

Hope this helps you get started on your road... Good luck!

Savcom
06-09-2013, 02:54 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by savcom Quote
Welcome to the Great Vinyl Debate. As a keen owner of a Linn Sondek LP12 I can say that you're in for a real treat when it's all up and working. That's a fine piece of vintage audio you have there.

Regarding your Garrard:


Pliable isn't necessary the best,. The rubber has to grip both the turntable and the motor and not slip. Also check the underside of the turntable and the motor spindle. Both will likely need cleaning (don't use sandpaper or similar - use a pencil eraser) In the UK when I worked for the BBC, we were taught to use Swarfega (a grease remover) to clean the rubber surface of pinch rollers of our Studer A80 tape recorders so that the smoothness of the roller was removed without changing its circumference. If you can get the idler wheel off you could try this and see if it improves things. Get rid of the swarfega with plain water - no soap - and dry it thoroughly.

Also - for setting up the stylus on the cartridge, try resting the stylus on a mirror placed on the turntable mat. A good excuse to try your hand at macro photography - get that stylus in close focus and make sure it's straight and true (the stylus and reflection are parallel with each other when viewed from the front) and that the weight is set correctly. Too much weight and the cantilever will gouge you a new groove in your record. Too little and it'll skate across the surface.

If you have a problem hearing any records you play then you obviously need to establish why. Here you are a bit helpless without the circuit diagram - or at least a list of the valves in the set. Be warned that valves (or Tubes in the USA) run high voltages that are dangerous, so a healthy regard for safety is the first tip I can offer.

Most valves have a number printed on the glass envelope and you need a list of these to help build up the circuit in order to know where / how to look for the faults. Again, some pictures of the markings on the valves may help others on the forum help you, so some more pictures please... If you have the circuit diagram this would help - quite often this would be stuck on the inside of the set as a guide to the radiogram repairers of old, so look round at the set.

Hope this helps you get started on your road... Good luck!

Savcom
If Swarfega is good enough for a Studer studio tape deck it should do the job! I wonder if it is any relation to the GooBeGone we backyard mechanics use here in the States. And without a schematic you're flying blind. If you could locate an electronics repair shop that is really old...and they haven't done a cleanout in the last couple decades...such folk might have a tube/valve checker, etc, and maybe a schematic . I assume you've checked Google for schematics of your unit? Could be worth a try.

I agree with Savcom a properly set up vinyl deck is a joy. I bought an Acoustic Research ES-1 many years age, feeling that it would serve me well with its basic, suspended motor/arm setup, like that used by the Linn. And it has. I felt that the same sum used to purchase a dead simple device would probably be of higher quality than if spent on a fancy, direct drive electronic variable speed gee whizbang table, for which parts would probably be unavailble by now.

Edgar Villchur who made the first AR tables in 1961 was a genius. Whether Villchur invented the suspended table I'm not sure; I think there was at least one other such back in the day, contemporary with the AR and prior to the exemplary Sondek. Savcom, any information?
11-14-2013, 10:49 PM   #28
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Long break between drinks, but I've been incredibly lazy with this.

Other things have been taking my time, work, house, and maintaining/restoring a classic car with my partner.

anyway, The other day I decided to take out the record player component and see what I could do.


I cleaned some of the contacts, and re-routed the wires for the stylus (for whatever reason they had been routed over the wooden chassis of the cabinet and were being crushed by the player.

I also gave the cartridge a good squirt of contact cleaner.


The result is that I not have sound!!!
Albeit, intermittantly. Not sure if the wires are damaged and shorting, or if the cartridge is damaged (quite likely)

the other issue is that the sound is very quiet, at full volume the sound from the speakers is about the volume of a person speaking softly. Audible, but only in a quiet room.

Any thoughts on fixing this?
I've noticed that JAycar sell ceramic/crystal stylus' for $20 a pair, I'm considering buying a pair and seeing if that helps. I'll need to work out how to mount it into the arm, but if it works I might have sound!!

are all stylus of the same type the same? (ie: crystal all interchangable? or are there different voltages/outputs or something?)
And I assume that mounting in the arm isn't a complex task, just make a small bracket and keep it level?
11-16-2013, 05:29 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote
Long break between drinks, but I've been incredibly lazy with this.

Other things have been taking my time, work, house, and maintaining/restoring a classic car with my partner.

anyway, The other day I decided to take out the record player component and see what I could do.


I cleaned some of the contacts, and re-routed the wires for the stylus (for whatever reason they had been routed over the wooden chassis of the cabinet and were being crushed by the player.

I also gave the cartridge a good squirt of contact cleaner.


The result is that I not have sound!!!
Albeit, intermittantly. Not sure if the wires are damaged and shorting, or if the cartridge is damaged (quite likely)

the other issue is that the sound is very quiet, at full volume the sound from the speakers is about the volume of a person speaking softly. Audible, but only in a quiet room.

Any thoughts on fixing this?
I've noticed that JAycar sell ceramic/crystal stylus' for $20 a pair, I'm considering buying a pair and seeing if that helps. I'll need to work out how to mount it into the arm, but if it works I might have sound!!

are all stylus of the same type the same? (ie: crystal all interchangable? or are there different voltages/outputs or something?)
And I assume that mounting in the arm isn't a complex task, just make a small bracket and keep it level?

Oh boy! Where to start? I suppose a bit of digging on your part would help here:

Does the cartridge have any markings on it? Any photos? Can you find it listed in this database?

Do you have any photos of the valves in the unit (preferably lit up - lovely warm glow to tempt your photographic skills - but watch those voltages!! ) I'd like to see the markings on the valves to see what sort they are.

From the markings on the valves we can start drawing out the circuit diagram and work out how we can test it!

Over to you!

Savcom
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