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05-18-2013, 04:19 AM   #1
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Anybody into old Vinyl players?

So, i made am impulse buy today.............

as a result I'm currently sitting in the lounge drunkenly listening to my new radiogram.

I bought a 1962 AWA (Amalgamated Wireless Association) Stereophonic Radioigram.


Anyway, it's got a Garrard Model 210 Record player in it, and for whatever reason it seems to not want to play records.

It will happily load a record, but instead of setting the needle at the start it will instead scoot the needly across the record and not read anything.

is this as simple as the stylus is dead? or more complex?


I bought it to gut the internals and make a liquor cabinet, but I don't want to gut it now sicne it works.

05-18-2013, 07:41 AM   #2
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First make sure there's a Stylus on the needle cartridge. No stylus will make it slide across the surface.
Second, check and see if the tone arm has an adjustment for needle pressure. If it does try moving it in
toward the needle.
Lastly if you don't hear any sound while the needle slides, it's got problems and will cost $$$$$.

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05-18-2013, 06:43 PM   #3
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If, as Dana suggested, it has a needle, the tone arm needs adjustment for counter balance. Tone arms should be balanced so the needle just rides on the record - barely! The less weight on the needle, the longer your records will last.
05-19-2013, 03:47 AM   #4
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It has a cartridge in the needle arm, however I'm not sure if the needle is an integral part of the cartridge or a separate part?

There is a small metallic strip on the record side of the cartridge with a small nib at the end, I assume that's the needle.
But the nib seems to be almost rectangular on the end, and is much wider than the record grooves.

Would that mean the needle is worn quite substantially? (I assume it's supposed to end at a point rather than a chisel tip?)



As for records, I intentionally went to the local op-shop and bought a cheap one in case it gets damaged while I attempt repairs ($1 for some old panpipe music compilation of some kind)

05-19-2013, 05:01 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote
old panpipe music compilation of some kind
That's the problem, your radiogram has a good taste detector built in and panpipes don't qualify.
05-19-2013, 06:11 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote
It has a cartridge in the needle arm, however I'm not sure if the needle is an integral part of the cartridge or a separate part?

There is a small metallic strip on the record side of the cartridge with a small nib at the end, I assume that's the needle.
But the nib seems to be almost rectangular on the end, and is much wider than the record grooves.

Would that mean the needle is worn quite substantially? (I assume it's supposed to end at a point rather than a chisel tip?)



As for records, I intentionally went to the local op-shop and bought a cheap one in case it gets damaged while I attempt repairs ($1 for some old panpipe music compilation of some kind)
The needle should be a point, which seems to have fallen off of yours. You should be able to gently touch than 'nib' and hear a scratching noise in the speaker. If you hear a noise, search for a new needle or complete cartridge. No noise leads to broken wire or blown Pre-Amp. Wire you can fix you're self with a little solder. Pre Amp......$$....... if it can be found.
If you want to just restore an old unit for a conversation piece, it might be worth fixing. If you just want to dabble with Vinyl, you can pick up a turn table for a $100 or less.
I come from the Vinyl Era, if you've never heard vinyl, you'll be in for a treat. There's a lot more going on in the music than a CD gives you

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05-19-2013, 08:52 AM   #7
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Here's a source for info on the Garrard Garrard Model 210 - Google Search

Jerry Raskin is a good source for replacement cartridges/styli here in the US Needle Doctor I don't know about your sources Down Under. If you can find the maker's name on the cart or identify its picture in Jerry Rakskin's site you should be able to find a replacement closer to home.

While lower stylus pressure is a good thing up to a point if the pressure is too low the stylus will "rattle around" in the groove, sound horrible, and wear the groove. I doubt that the 210 is capable of tracking much below 3 or 4 grams. As I remember the Garrard LAB 80, introduced in the mid '60s, was the first Garrard changer capable of reliable tracking at 1.5 or 2 grams or so. I had one, it was a good unit.

The 210 is a four speed unit. Many mid-market consoles were fitted with a "turn-over" cartridge, in which a little lever protuding from the front of the tone arm, rotated the pickup to switch from a 33/45 stylus to a 78 rpm unit. Have a look at the pic in the link above and you'll see what I'm trying to describe. Sometimes the lever rotated underneath from one side of the tone arm to the other. These were often ceramic or crystal, requiring no preamp, but usually limited in quality. BTW, crystal pickups are sensitive to moisture and may just go bad; ceramic is "weatherproof." If you can send a photo of the turntable we can perhaps help.

If there is only one stylus you may have a magnetic pickup, which should have a maker's name and model on it. Mags are generally higher in quality than ceramic or crystal, and can track at lower pressures, again depending on the arm/changer.

If the radio portion of the unit operates chances are the turntable section is also good. Given the unit's age it is almost certainly a tube or valve chassis; tubes are now "cool" which means that replacements are scarce and expensive.

Good luck! As others have said vinyl is fun, but what a can of worms! While many feel that vinyl sounds better than CDs, to realize this requires A LOT of money for the turntable, arm, and pickup. I'd guess that the basic admission price is upwards of USD $800.00 , and the real fanatics would turn up their noses at such a piece of gear. The True Believers in the Church of Vinyl have their own Sacred Rituals for cleaning the Holy Discs, and argue endlessly about the proper material for a turntable mat, record clamps, what sort of cables to use, blah, blah, blah....
05-19-2013, 09:08 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by grhazelton Quote
True Believers in the Church of Vinyl have their own Sacred Rituals for cleaning the Holy Discs and argue endlessly about the proper material for a turntable mat, record clamps, what sort of cables to use
This sounds these folk could quickly switch to becoming forum members here and fit right in.

05-19-2013, 09:23 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by kerrowdown Quote
This sounds these folk could quickly switch to becoming forum members here and fit right in.
Could be! We'd have to use the Sacred Initiation Ritual, and goats are currently in short supply. Any further ideas??
05-19-2013, 09:28 AM   #10
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I understand hamsters make a good alternatives.
05-19-2013, 09:38 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by kerrowdown Quote
I understand hamsters make a good alternatives.
Ooooh! Hamster kabobs? To go alone with Rupert's roasted possum? Just what do you have in mind....?
05-19-2013, 09:41 AM   #12
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I am also into vinyl and have an old Lenco L-75 turntable with the large modded plinth. I also use tube amps for both the phono and mono block power amps. As others have said, it sounds like you need a new needle or cartridge if you can't find a replacement.

If you end up getting your unit to work, you may want to take it into the shop to get the capacitors and other possibley out of spec components replaced. Otherwise it may work for a while until something blows. It would also sound better with updated parts. If the tubes still test good, I would leave those in as older made tubes tend to sound better than new ones.

Even if you can't get your unit to work, old working tubes and even the Gerrard table (depending on the model) can fetch quite a bit of money.
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05-19-2013, 11:44 AM   #13
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Nice table! Which linear tracking arm is that? I'm running an AR ES-1 with the last Shure VR15mr into an old Harmon Kardon HK 590 receiver. This box has a stereo/mono switch, switchable bass/treble inflection points, a rumble filter, and enough clean power for the Klipsch Fortes. I still have a suite of Eico tube gear: two big power amps, a preamp, and a tuner. One day maybe I'll replace the electrolytics, re-tube them (EL-34s have gotten pricey) and set them up for old time's sake. When I ran these bad boys in my college dorm room the lights would dim just a little when I powered things up!
05-19-2013, 12:17 PM   #14
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The tonearm is an air bearing linear tracker ADA MG-1 with a Denon DL-103R cartridge. The phono amp is an Audio Research PH-3 to a Threshold T3 preamp. I used to use a Cinemag SUT but I couldn't get rid of a 60 hz hum so I removed it. The phono amp seems to have enough gain for the preamp without it which I don't have to put past 10:00 to get decent sound. The power amps are Ray Lumley M-100 tube mono blocks and Acoustat 2+2 speakers. I also use a Bedini BA-803 solid state amp in the same system as I also use it for HT/TV. And there is a Beard P-100 as a backup for the Ray Lumleys in case I blow a KT-88 tube.

Eico were very nice tube amps and Harmon Kardon has a nice warm sound. You have a nice set up!

Hey, hks_kansei. Show us some pictures of your new find! I love the look of vintage gear, it was so well made.
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Last edited by carcrazy; 05-19-2013 at 12:28 PM.
05-19-2013, 12:52 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by carcrazy Quote
The tonearm is an air bearing linear tracker ADA MG-1 with a Denon DL-103R cartridge. The phono amp is an Audio Research PH-3 to a Threshold T3 preamp. I used to use a Cinemag SUT but I couldn't get rid of a 60 hz hum so I removed it. The phono amp seems to have enough gain for the preamp without it which I don't have to put past 10:00 to get decent sound. The power amps are Ray Lumley M-100 tube mono blocks and Acoustat 2+2 speakers. I also use a Bedini BA-803 solid state amp in the same system as I also use it for HT/TV. And there is a Beard P-100 as a backup for the Ray Lumleys in case I blow a KT-88 tube.

Eico were very nice tube amps and Harmon Kardon has a nice warm sound. You have a nice set up!

Hey, hks_kansei. Show us some pictures of your new find! I love the look of vintage gear, it was so well made.
Thanks! If the HK dies I don't know where I'd find a similar feature set, especially for vinyl. I have many old discs, some of which need that switchable treble boost/cut point. Additionally I happened upon a kit and built it for what was called Symmetric Sound Systems' dynamic pulse swallower. It helps remove impulse sounds, like record scratches, very unobtrusively, and of course can be switched out. Still, vinyl is a continual battle with the elemental dust, as you well know.

I really can't pursue two costly hobbies, audio and photography, so for the present time photography rules. At the moment I don't know of any audio improvements which would be cost effective. Acoustat makes really nice speakers; I remember hearing a pair some years ago in a really good environment which were truly impressive. They were playing Joan Baez' Diamonds and Rust off vinyl. Joan was there in the room....
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