[DavidSKAF3]

Okay here is my take on your statement as moderator. It is rather lengthy, but I am interested to see if you will let others make their own judgments and express their own comments once I've expressed mine. After all, I very much do support adherence to the majority opinion and the benefits of sensible consensus. How about you?

First of all, I was not pleased to see that my previous "nonsense" thread (as you label it) without so much as a PM or explanation was buried into a lengthy 167-page thread with a limited (albeit extremely fun and cool!) readership, but ultimately where far fewer members would see it.

Because you see, I would like to reach out and make friends with more forum members than only those who subscribe to your so-called nonsense thread, and do so in my own unique way, especially now that I've donated $65 to become a member of what I must have mistakenly believed would be a social community and gathering place for Pentax enthusiasts.

I think I ought be left alone to be myself and express myself freely, short of expressing any profanity, delicate political opinions, or making offensive or malicious statements towards others.

But if I my content is going to be subjected to the arbitrary judgment and editing of moderators who perhaps only problem with it is that they do not possess an appreciation for my humor, personality, or manner of expression, perhaps this place isn't for me. Perhaps I don't belong here, and it was a mistake on my part to join so quickly after discovering it with so much positive enthusiasm.

And so perhaps you can use your powers (unspecified and apparently without any credentials that I can find) to have the site manager issue me a full refund for $65, as I am not enough of a separately meaningful member around here to, as they say, "have fun and do my own thing." Maybe it is an issue of limited bandwidth? No room for individual fun?

That being said, if my participation, however trite and silly to you, is going to result in my being publicly dressed down, simply for what amounts to having a non-offensive and spontaneous good time talking about cameras, then clearly I have made a misjudgment in my determination of this place. This is about as ridiculous as the B&H manager telling me I can't take pictures in the camera store! Seriously! Because getting on about me and my admittedly banal, harmless, and friendly foolishness is quite plainly a fool's errand, something akin to a bored cop pulling someone over just for the lack of some larger crime to pursue.

I am insulted by this. and frankly I get enough of this sort of dung at work. Because yes, I come here to play and to have fun and make friends and learn about Pentax and photography along the way. Maybe I've got this place all wrong.

And this sort of thing you're doing really devalues its appeal to me.

So if my freedom of expression here is going to be categorized, labelled, edited, and, very soon we shall see, censored, and it's definitely not going to change, then if possible have Adam issue me a refund, or just keep the $65, and I'll take it as a learning experience. I do not want to belong to a site where I cannot have fun and be spontaneous. I will be sure to tell anyone that asks that Pentax Forums is really for the serious exchange of information only, and not a social community for Pentax and photography enthusiasts to have fun, make contacts, and make new friends, at all.

Ironically, I have to say that some of the most interesting and informative conversations I've ever participated in began with a seemingly meaningless and banal remark

Thanks so much for considering my point of view here, and please enjoy your day!

---

Last edited by DavidSKAF3; 01-04-2014 at 02:27 PM.

[Heie]

I mean no disrespect, and every appreciates your ability to bring a criticism in a calm tone and lucid manner, but...ummm....



Perhaps this would have been better served as a PM to Adam or any of the other moderators? I took a look at the thread you were referring to (located here - p.s. supplying links is always appreciated and considered good forum etiquette, but I digress), and here is your original post that started the thread:

Every time I press the K-5's shutter button, the image sensor captures an image of whatever the lens is facing. I mean, unless I forgot the cap. And I can't find a thing about this in the Troubleshooting section. It's a new camera, so I'm pretty sure it's me.

You don't find that thread that you started (again, no offense intended) idiotic? Unnecessary? Insulting to everyone else here?

I would have done exactly what Parallax did and closed the thread.

Very Respectfully,
Heie

[DavidSKAF3]

I mean no disrespect, and every appreciates your ability to bring a criticism in a calm tone and lucid manner, but...ummm....



Perhaps this would have been better served as a PM to Adam or any of the other moderators? I took a look at the thread you were referring to (located here - p.s. supplying links is always appreciated and considered good forum etiquette, but I digress), and here is your original post that started the thread:



You don't find that thread that you started (again, no offense intended) idiotic? Unnecessary? Insulting to everyone else here?

I would have done exactly what Parallax did and closed the thread.

Very Respectfully,
Heie

Idiotic? Yes. Most definitely, especially if you're an all-business, no-nonsense sort of camera enthusiast.
Unnecessary? So tell me then, what IS necessary? Is any of this necessary? I mean, really? Is it even necessary to say hello, have a nice day? Hi, I hear the guacamole at that restaurant is quite tasty? Necessary to what? Is this some sort of Senate Hearing-United Nations Conference about a world crisis, or something? I must've missed the sign on the door! Tell me.
Insulting? Absolutely not. Tell me how you find it insulting. I mean, I guess so, if you're some sort an an all-business camera guru with limited time who doesn't suffer a fool gladly. Yeah. I could see how it might be irritating. But not insulting.

And I did copy this to Adam.

Because I am interested in seeing who jumps on which wagon.

It'll help me decide which way I want to go.

Like I said, I thought this would be something of a social community, not solely some sort of official expert think-tank.

And okay, that's one vote against. I suppose you can block me?


All the best, and, by the way, I enjoy your comments and also I admire your photos, and also I sincerely thank you for the service you provide to this country!



Thanks.

[sterretje]

If you don't agree with moderation, it's common nettiquette (on any forum) to take it up with the moderator using a PM or email instead of posting another thread. And if that does not work, you can contact higher up in hierarchy.

[DavidSKAF3]

If you don't agree with moderation, it's common nettiquette (on any forum) to take it up with the moderator using a PM or email instead of posting another thread. And if that does not work, you can contact higher up in hierarchy.

Thanks, sterretje. I got a one-way email about it, so I posted my reply here.

Here is what it said:


"Originally posted by Moderation Team:
This is the second nonsense thread that you have started. I merged the first one with the the ongoing one in the K -3 forum with a subsequent reply that one of this type of thread was enough. It still is, so please don't start any more such threads. Regards,"


So? A second "nonsense" thread? And, "one type of nonsense" is enough? What type would that be? That sounds like a matter of personal taste. And also because, well, I was kind of hoping and planning on continuing to have fun around here, so this does indeed mandate some sort of discussion. It seems to me I've read quite a few numerous fun, silly, light-hearted posts and threads in other places besides the back pages of the "Why I Won't Buy A K-3" thread!


If it was the moderator, I would just say to myself, "Well some people are going to take him for a fool or an a** or whatever, but others might like and appreciate his participation, and he's not hurting anybody or anything, that is, besides perhaps his reputation or image among the others. But some people are responding in kind to him. And who knows how the thread will evolve? So leave him be."

David

[SpecialK]

I hope you are refunded for the massive insult, and find more compassion at DPR.

[Na Horuk]

Keep in mind that the forum has a history - there were plenty of posts (and posters I guess) that were.. pointless and disruptive. This is why the moderators might sometimes appear to be too strict, its because they have experience and they do this often. Its not meant as a personal attack on a user, merely their job. This is also a photography forum, which centers mostly on knowledge. When it comes to self expression, on this forum its meant to be done through photographs.
I appreciate the comedy, but it might not fit in that specific forum. Starting arguments, even unintentionally (like this thread), is just bad for the whole community. Arguing over definition rarely works out, in any type of argument.

tl;dr: its alright, don't worry, wait a little longer until you figure out how this forum community works, and then you'll fit right in. We appreciate humour, but this is firstly a forum about equipment, photo industry, and photography. Don't fight the moderators over little things like that, but feel free to voice your opinion to the admin or other moderators. A thread or post like yours might work better on a different platform, like a blog or something, where its expected of people to make posts that prove a point, rather than to discuss specific subjects

---

Last edited by Na Horuk; 01-04-2014 at 02:35 PM.

[Heie]

Idiotic? Yes. Most definitely, if you're all about formality and policy. Unnecessary? So tell me then, what IS necessary? Is any of this necessary? Necessary to what? Insulting? Absolutely not. Tell me how you find this insulting.

This isn't about "decorum" and "formality." Tied to the unnecessary part, in what way did that thread contribute to ANYTHING? Would you appreciate it if random people, even highly respected ones here, started threads of

"If I twist the ON/OFF button, it doesn't do anything if a battery is not in the camera, but that wasn't in the manual. It's a new camera, so I'm pretty sure it's me."

"If I buy the body only, but no lens, none of my pictures come out, but that wasn't in the manual. It's a new camera, so I'm pretty sure it's me."

How do you not find that notion insulting? I frequent here for two main reasons. At first it was to learn (still is...I'm learning from here everyday) both by reading and sharing my experiences and the associated praise/criticism that inevitably follows. As I have developed and matured photographically, I now have taken an interest in accelerating the learning curves of Pentaxians here as this place certainly did for me. This place is a TROVE of endless resources, made that way by me, you, and the next tens of thousands of people. Purposefully idiotic (you admitted it was) posts that have no true purpose (you certainly weren't looking for assistance) have no place here. Got it, you want to exercise your "right to free speech."

I really didn't want to go down this route, but since you brought that up, it doesn't really apply here. The constantly forgotten fact is that free speech is not protected between private parties. If PF really wanted to, they could put some SERIOUS restrictions on what could be said ("Only positive stuff about Pentax allowed - DO NOT BE CRITICAL!"). Yes, they can. DPR does it with banned linking to this site and sometimes just mentioning it from there (bastards). Second, your free speech wasn't violated. I *loathe* how Americans are so entitled to thinking that at any point, with any audience, they are entitled to not only be heard, but the content of what they say is of importance. Anything that indicates to the contrary and "I KNOW MY RIGHTS! STOP INFRINGING UPON MINE, MAN!"

/end of pseudo political rant

I appreciate your respect for me and my contributions here, but the fact is your post was nothing short of sophomoric. And purposefully so!

If it were an attempt to be funny, well it was short-lived and perhaps you disagree with Parallax's decision to not allow any others to join in on the communal hysteria to ensue. Fine. But this response and negativity towards your previous decision to support this community? Up to and including mentioning a refund from a voluntary donation?

It was quickly to be forgotten thanks to Parallax's quick response, yet for some reason you saw that as you being censored and created yet another thread (this one) defending the previous one. I am doing my very best to exude a tone that is not disrespectful or malicious as that is not my intent. But yes, I found it insulting. Not necessarily insulting to me, but insulting to the quality of posters and the community here.

I will not block you - I've never blocked anyone here. The way you phrased it makes me suspicious if you want me to, you think I should, or it was intended as subtle and indirect jab at my integrity.

Regardless, I'm done with commenting here - I knew I would regret it with my post above because you seem determined to "declare righteous victory" on your being censored, which is preposterous, perhaps even reason for concerns of maturity and sound judgment.

Over and Out,
Heie

[scratchpaddy]

I'll just say that you'd be better off putting the thread in question in "General Talk." The expectation for the "Pentax DSLR Discussion" forum is that people come there to learn about Pentax cameras, not tell jokes. In "General Talk," you can play around all you want, as long as you don't get political, religious, etc.

I expect the mods are only enduring the "Why I won't buy a K-3" thread because it keeps an off-topic discussion (mostly about cheese, apparently) in one place.

That said, I do appreciate your humor. It's a nice breath of fresh air to me. I just think you're putting it in the wrong place. No doubt the mods will move/close this thread soon, and rightly so.

[DavidSKAF3]

This isn't about "decorum" and "formality." Tied to the unnecessary part, in what way did that thread contribute to ANYTHING? Would you appreciate it if random people, even highly respected ones here, started threads of

"If I twist the ON/OFF button, it doesn't do anything if a battery is not in the camera, but that wasn't in the manual. It's a new camera, so I'm pretty sure it's me."

"If I buy the body only, but no lens, none of my pictures come out, but that wasn't in the manual. It's a new camera, so I'm pretty sure it's me."

How do you not find that notion insulting? I frequent here for two main reasons. At first it was to learn (still is...I'm learning from here everyday) both by reading and sharing my experiences and the associated praise/criticism that inevitably follows. As I have developed and matured photographically, I now have taken an interest in accelerating the learning curves of Pentaxians here as this place certainly did for me. This place is a TROVE of endless resources, made that way by me, you, and the next tens of thousands of people. Purposefully idiotic (you admitted it was) posts that have no true purpose (you certainly weren't looking for assistance) have no place here. Got it, you want to exercise your "right to free speech."

I really didn't want to go down this route, but since you brought that up, it doesn't really apply here. The constantly forgotten fact is that free speech is not protected between private parties. If PF really wanted to, they could put some SERIOUS restrictions on what could be said ("Only positive stuff about Pentax allowed - DO NOT BE CRITICAL!"). Yes, they can. DPR does it with banned linking to this site and sometimes just mentioning it from there (bastards). Second, your free speech wasn't violated. I *loathe* how Americans are so entitled to thinking that at any point, with any audience, they are entitled to not only be heard, but the content of what they say is of importance. Anything that indicates to the contrary and "I KNOW MY RIGHTS! STOP INFRINGING UPON MINE, MAN!"

/end of pseudo political rant

I appreciate your respect for me and my contributions here, but the fact is your post was nothing short of sophomoric. And purposefully so!

If it were an attempt to be funny, well it was short-lived and perhaps you disagree with Parallax's decision to not allow any others to join in on the communal hysteria to ensue. Fine. But this response and negativity towards your previous decision to support this community? Up to and including mentioning a refund from a voluntary donation?

It was quickly to be forgotten thanks to Parallax's quick response, yet for some reason you saw that as you being censored and created yet another thread (this one) defending the previous one. I am doing my very best to exude a tone that is not disrespectful or malicious as that is not my intent. But yes, I found it insulting. Not necessarily insulting to me, but insulting to the quality of posters and the community here.

I will not block you - I've never blocked anyone here. The way you phrased it makes me suspicious if you want me to, you think I should, or it was intended as subtle and indirect jab at my integrity.

Regardless, I'm done with commenting here - I knew I would regret it with my post above because you seem determined to "declare righteous victory" on your being censored, which is preposterous, perhaps even reason for concerns of maturity and sound judgment.

Over and Out,
Heie

I don't know, chief. The first part of your message made me laugh. But not at you, at those quotes that mimic what I originally posted. Yours are funny too! I actually laughed out loud! I enjoyed them! And I don't mind.


I am not jabbing you. Why on Earth would I? I said I am interested in gauging everyone's opinion.

Look, if most people turn out to agree with you I will just go quietly into the night, take my BS elsewhere, as they say. I was never trying to be Mr. Official.

But I'm sure not going to stick around if I have to walk on eggshells around the serious experts and worry about whether or not I'm making a fool of myself.


And this is not a cry for freedom of speech. I am simply talking about being comfortable just being myself around here. That's it.

[DavidSKAF3]

I'll just say that you'd be better off putting the thread in question in "General Talk." The expectation for the "Pentax DSLR Discussion" forum is that people come there to learn about Pentax cameras, not tell jokes. In "General Talk," you can play around all you want, as long as you don't get political, religious, etc.

I expect the mods are only enduring the "Why I won't buy a K-3" thread because it keeps an off-topic discussion (mostly about cheese, apparently) in one place.

That said, I do appreciate your humor. It's a nice breath of fresh air to me. I just think you're putting it in the wrong place. No doubt the mods will move/close this thread soon, and rightly so.

Thanks, and yes, I expect they will.


I have to go to work now. Gotta be all serious for twelve hours. You know!

[DavidSKAF3]

I hope you are refunded for the massive insult, and find more compassion at DPR.

LOL


Really!

[Fl_Gulfer]

It didn't used to be so anal when I joined 7 years ago, but since Adam had to get some help in the forum things have changed. The other forum is even worse in a socialist way. I joined the forum for Help and Fun. so far I've got plenty of help but I'm still a very bad photographer.

[DavidSKAF3]

Perhaps it comes down to the difference between techno geeks and creative types.

And here's a news flash:

Creative people are well-known for being quirky, different, eccentric, off-the-wall, unpredictable. Need I cite a few examples?

I dunno. Some people say cameras are just little computers nowadays.

Others say they're paint brushes.

So you have some people who like to micro-manage and put labels on things and put them into little cubbyholes, and others who like to just let it ride, go with the flow, take it with a grain of salt, see what happens.

Me, I just grab a lens and head out. No preparation. Bound to make mistakes. Trying to have some fun.

[DavidSKAF3]

I'll just say that you'd be better off putting the thread in question in "General Talk." The expectation for the "Pentax DSLR Discussion" forum is that people come there to learn about Pentax cameras, not tell jokes. In "General Talk," you can play around all you want, as long as you don't get political, religious, etc.

I expect the mods are only enduring the "Why I won't buy a K-3" thread because it keeps an off-topic discussion (mostly about cheese, apparently) in one place.

That said, I do appreciate your humor. It's a nice breath of fresh air to me. I just think you're putting it in the wrong place. No doubt the mods will move/close this thread soon, and rightly so.

Thanks for your comment.

I think the tone and character of people's posts should not be the deciding factor as to making one area of the forum more preferable or more appropriate than another.

Do I really need to cite examples of humor or attempts at humor, including those made by the moderator himself, from this very same forum? The DSLR Forum?

Glad to hear you've enjoyed my humor, at any rate!