[little laker]

Wow Stu, sorry you are having such a big problem with this guy. You have gotten some good advise on how to deal with it. I just wanted to say that your pictures are many times better in every way then the shots posted on your fishing forum. Not even close! You did a high quality job, and you should be paid for it.

I just wanted to say thanks for your nice comments on my work Fred

I seriously feel that my work turns out so good consistently only because it's something that I love doing.
I take the extra time for each and every photo, which usually pays off.
At least 12 hours of editing for 180 photographs might sound a little excessive, but in my opinion it's worth it in the end.

Great Stu, Log off, go out and have a great evening.

Edit the letter another day any way you like. I wrote it to sound "stand-offish" like 'that's it bud, I'm done with this'.

Relax and have a great night my friend. You deserve it.

Thanks Peter,
Just so that you know, it's my Special Olympic friends mom whom I'll be joining
We've become great friends since then

Stu,

I'll put in my opinion, if only because it's a bit unique. My family owned a small business in the Okanagan for 30 years. I've met all types of customers and I've dealt with this type before, unfortunately more than once. People in the Okanagan aren't wealthy; most of the ones that are well off either have made their money elsewhere and moved there or have been successful in owning their own businesses (the rate of $ucce$$ is, at best, low in my view).

Having said the foregoing, in my opinion your client can't be that financially badly off. 1) If he's a stay at home dad, he's spending a lot of time at the gym working out. You don't get those muscles without spending a few hours a day, every day, pumping iron. So who's watching the kids? 2) Gym memberships aren't free. They cost money. 3) That guy is on serious juice (ask at the gym what I mean!). That was my first thought when you posted a pic of him a few days ago. And 'roids cost money, man.

Here's what I'd do.

1. Don't send him a single thing. Not until he pays up in full the $300.
2. Ignore him until he pays up, which he probably won't. Chances are he'll try to find another photog to try to scam. But he may try to string you along simply because he'll get a kick out of it.
3. Write this entire event off as a learning experience. From now on get everything in writing with a signed contract. If you don't know where to start, pay to get a proper legal contract outlining terms, conditions and prices. Email confirmations won't do. You will likely meet this type of person in the future and a signed contract is what you need to take to small claims court (up to $10,000). And you will be in a small claims court in the future -- this is something I can predict with 100% accuracy. A small claims court is useful because if you did a big job and got stiffed, you can hire a bailiff to seize the other person's assets (including chattel property) -- that gets their attention really fast.

Good luck.

-George

Thanks George,

It was a clean event, with testing. But you may well be right about him being a juice monkey

I'll be following your advice, along with everyone else's here.

I hope that no-one here ever needs it, however the max for small claims count in BC is now $25,000. Which should be more than enough for most of our bills.

Too bad that you didn't still live in the OK, I'd love to make it out for a photo shoot with you sometime soon.


Before the shoots I told him I'd probably get some photographs that were magazine quality.
From the looks of the muscle mags that I've seen I've easily hit that mark
he won't get them now

[little laker]

I really needed that night out with a wonderful woman, and a friend of hers.

I haven't really gone dancing in close to 5 years, since that faithful boat ride that changed my day. And it sure felt nice.

I know that I wasn't the best companion tonight, but I gave her a general idea why and she appears to be fine with it

It helped take my mind off of things, and put them in perspective.

[roentarre]

Stu, very sorry to hear this. This kind of person is unfortunately quite common in the communty. Under such circumstance, it is really your words against his. Ideally speaking, you own the images taken. It is just that you cannot make a profit with these images unless you have the consent from the parties involved.

Wish everything turn out well in the end. If he really wants the images, he would have to pay. Otherwise, just forget about it and have a contract made next time around.

[Photo Tramp]

Hay Stu.
Going out with a beautiful woman always puts a different spin on things. Kind of takes your mind off the problems at hand. I don't dance any more, so just good conversation and what ever happens later is well worth the time it takes away from the original problem. I'm glad to hear you had a great time.

Just remember this Stu, Your a fine photographer and who ever gets you to do their work is very lucky. I'm a fan of your work and I have watched you come along here on the forum and the quality you add to your work is not just taking the picture with a great camera. You also have put a great amount of talent into your post processing and have cerated some very fine work.
from a friend and a fan.
Dave

[cupic]

Find a witch doctor and create a voodoo doll

LOL

cheers

[little laker]

Stu, very sorry to hear this. This kind of person is unfortunately quite common in the communty. Under such circumstance, it is really your words against his. Ideally speaking, you own the images taken. It is just that you cannot make a profit with these images unless you have the consent from the parties involved.

Wish everything turn out well in the end. If he really wants the images, he would have to pay. Otherwise, just forget about it and have a contract made next time around.

Thanks James,
I could really care less about making any profit from these photographs.

I'm actually glad that he won't have them. I got the idea that he was going to try selling them, and keeping the profit to himself
I might have never known, since I don't look at body building mags

Hay Stu.
Going out with a beautiful woman always puts a different spin on things. Kind of takes your mind off the problems at hand. I don't dance any more, so just good conversation and what ever happens later is well worth the time it takes away from the original problem. I'm glad to hear you had a great time.

Just remember this Stu, Your a fine photographer and who ever gets you to do their work is very lucky. I'm a fan of your work and I have watched you come along here on the forum and the quality you add to your work is not just taking the picture with a great camera. You also have put a great amount of talent into your post processing and have cerated some very fine work.
from a friend and a fan.
Dave

Thanks David,

She is a wonderful woman, and I'm looking forward to possibly spending this evening with her watching a video or 2.

I don't mind dancing, however I can't handle the crowd of most places where theres a dance floor anymore

I'm a big fan of your work as well, and am still envious of your studio otherwise known as your back yard
And trust me, I'm not envious of most peoples views

Theres just no way that my work could have improved as much as it has without people like yourself giving me advice here and there. Plus reading how people get their results right here on the Pentax Forums

Find a witch doctor and create a voodoo doll

LOL

cheers

Tempting, but I'm not a vengeful person

[Photo Tramp]

Your welcome Stu. And thank you for all your support. My studio will always be open to you. Come and enjoy yourself, bring a rod, we have the fish just waiting for you.

[ve2vfd]

It was a clean event, with testing. But you may well be right about him being a juice monkey

As a former bodybuilder who knows a thing or two about juice (yeah I was once young and adventurous...), I can tell you two things...

1 I'd bet the farm your "client" is juiced to the gills

2 "Clean events" are meaningless, the hormones used pre contest have a very short half life (less than 48 hrs) and cannot be detected after less than a week.

As for your client, I doubt he has no money as the bodybuilding lifestyle is terribly expensive. Surprisingly it's not the steroids that cost a lot (well they aren't cheap but...) it's the food that ruins you. 6-8 high protein meals a day + vitamins and legit supplements will drain your wallet fast.

My guess is that he's trying to get something for nothing, and in the bodybuilding world people like that are known as "scammers" (a term for deadbeat people who sell you fake steroids, or don't pay for their juice) and they are the worst kind of bottom feeders.


I think cutting all ties with him and taking the loss as a learning experience is probably the best move. Though unpleasant, those are the lessons we really learn from. Besides, I doubt you'll ever get an ounce of honesty out of him anyways.

Pat

[flyer]

Thanks Peter,

Here's a ink to a thread he started, including a few of their on-site professionals images
You decide how they compare

In my opinion they don't.

His pictures look like sh**. It looks like the focus was on the background instead of the main "character". Your's look a LOT better. Don't send him anything till you get the cash and keep the copyrights.

[Pentaxtic]

Stu,

Your photographs of him made him look really muscular. The other photog's pics made him look like a little guy with poor resolution to boot. I wish I could help you...

Just forget about it...well... learn to prevent another one from happening. Maybe ask a deposit first?!?

Also do you think you need a model release with this?

[betsypdx]

You're shots are 100% better. Sheesh!

Good luck.

[mtnbearhug]

Stu,

I am so sorry this had to happen... it really does suck... all the time and effort... but as someone mentioned in another thread on the photo's side... Dont waste them..

They are great photo's and would work well in your portfolio to show the detail and quality you can achieve.... There really is no comparison between the other pro's shots and yours...

Unfortunatley there are people like this in the world.. but I guess as business people we just have to learn from this and be more watchful for it in the future.. (sigh).....

[little laker]

Here's his newest lie

I sent you a response back and have seen you online so I am wondering why you are not replying back so we can get this done and over with.

I spoke to a professional photographer friend of mine. He said when you get photographs taken that editing of photos should not even need to be done if your a professional. You should know what to use in every situation so you dont need editing. Also a professional shows you pics and you should like them all unless you as the subject blinked, or moved, or something unavoidable and not the fault of the photographer.

Do you think that all your photos ( pre edited ) were of the professional variety?

Like I said I want this taken care of ASAP we will be seeing one another in another month at Milo and Andreas wedding and we dont need any anomosity going into that special time for our mutual friends.

Bryan

I'll respond to everything later, I just need to get cleaned up and relax

[little laker]

Your welcome Stu. And thank you for all your support. My studio will always be open to you. Come and enjoy yourself, bring a rod, we have the fish just waiting for you.

Thank you David,
And I don't have a beautiful river full of fish by my house, however I do have some nice lakes close by.
And your always welcome here as well

As a former bodybuilder who knows a thing or two about juice (yeah I was once young and adventurous...), I can tell you two things...

1 I'd bet the farm your "client" is juiced to the gills

2 "Clean events" are meaningless, the hormones used pre contest have a very short half life (less than 48 hrs) and cannot be detected after less than a week.

As for your client, I doubt he has no money as the bodybuilding lifestyle is terribly expensive. Surprisingly it's not the steroids that cost a lot (well they aren't cheap but...) it's the food that ruins you. 6-8 high protein meals a day + vitamins and legit supplements will drain your wallet fast.

My guess is that he's trying to get something for nothing, and in the bodybuilding world people like that are known as "scammers" (a term for deadbeat people who sell you fake steroids, or don't pay for their juice) and they are the worst kind of bottom feeders.


I think cutting all ties with him and taking the loss as a learning experience is probably the best move. Though unpleasant, those are the lessons we really learn from. Besides, I doubt you'll ever get an ounce of honesty out of him anyways.

Pat

Thanks Pat,
I used to cycle race, and saw my fair share of steroid users there.
However they were rarely anything like the body builders I see these days

And I stopped racing because the expenses were just too great, so I do believe you about his lifestyle.

I guess that scammers is a general term for everyone like him

I'll be ignoring him at that wedding in a month, and really don't care whom finds out about this.
They'll all get a good laugh at his expense, and I would almost be suprised if I didn't get more business because of it. From good honest people

His pictures look like sh**. It looks like the focus was on the background instead of the main "character". Your's look a LOT better. Don't send him anything till you get the cash and keep the copyrights.

Thanks flyer,
And don't worry, he won't get a thing.
I've decided that I'll bring along my digital picture screen to that wedding where he might show up.
With a very small version of all the photographs on that. If anyone cares to see the quality of them they're more than welcome to.
However the disk with the full sized images won't come out until I see my $ and he signs the release.

[little laker]

Stu,

Your photographs of him made him look really muscular. The other photog's pics made him look like a little guy with poor resolution to boot. I wish I could help you...

Just forget about it...well... learn to prevent another one from happening. Maybe ask a deposit first?!?

Also do you think you need a model release with this?

Thanks Pentaxtic,
And you are right about the release. I just quoted everything word for word, and used the same image links.
I'll do a little editing in a minute, distorting his face, and change the link

You're shots are 100% better. Sheesh!

Good luck.

Thanks betsypdx

Stu,

I am so sorry this had to happen... it really does suck... all the time and effort... but as someone mentioned in another thread on the photo's side... Dont waste them..

They are great photo's and would work well in your portfolio to show the detail and quality you can achieve.... There really is no comparison between the other pro's shots and yours...

Unfortunatley there are people like this in the world.. but I guess as business people we just have to learn from this and be more watchful for it in the future.. (sigh).....

Thanks Kim,

And both you and James are right. I'll have a few of these images added to my portfolio
It proves that the camera gods gave me the ability to get great images