E-15 gasoline

royden · 06-19-2014, 05:00 PM

A friend sent me an email with two links. I've never seen E-15 etc at any gas pump. Have you?

Watch video about E15 gas if you have a car older than 2012 ........

www.youtube.com/embed/ceW9Nc1hVHU?feature=player_detailpage

Snopes.com offers much of the same info(with a little more historical perspective)...

snopes.com: E15 Gasoline

**patrick9** · 06-19-2014, 08:31 PM

We just had to buy a new vehicle. We got a Flex Fuel one. It is rated at 19 mpg on reg E-10 fuel, But only 14mpg on E-15. I for one do not plan on purchasing E15 fuel if I can avoid it

**Lowell Goudge** · 06-19-2014, 09:58 PM - **1 Like**

With all the blended ethanol, it is amazing that people have not cried foul with the price of fuel. The difference in energy content, of blended ethanol is amazing, and we should be paying for energy content not simply by volume, because ethanol blended fuels are noticibly inferiorior and you can see the variation from tank to tank

OregonJim · 06-19-2014, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by patrick9

We just had to buy a new vehicle. We got a Flex Fuel one. It is rated at 19 mpg on reg E-10 fuel

Wow, that's what new vehicles are getting these days? I've got a sixteen year old SUV with a big 'ol V8 engine that gets the same mpg. I thought we were doing better...

**Lowell Goudge** · 06-19-2014, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by OregonJim

Wow, that's what new vehicles are getting these days? I've got a sixteen year old SUV with a big 'ol V8 engine that gets the same mpg. I thought we were doing better...

Emissions controls, and all the fancy electronics have not made engines more efficient, just cleaner.

**patrick9** · 06-20-2014, 04:39 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

ethanol blended fuels are noticibly inferiorior and you can see the variation from tank to tank

Agreed ethanol just doesn't have the energy that oil does
.

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

Emissions controls, and all the fancy electronics have not made engines more efficient, just cleaner.

Not really. The cars today weight half again- to double what they did 20 years ago. Thanks to all the safety equipment, wiring, computers, etc. I had to spend the day in class yesterday to learn to repair the 2015 F-150. It has an aluminum body. weighs 700 lbs less than the 2014 and is still double the weight of its great-great-great-great granddaddy the 1948 F-1

Originally posted by OregonJim

Wow, that's what new vehicles are getting these days? I've got a sixteen year old SUV with a big 'ol V8 engine that gets the same mpg. I thought we were doing better...

Yeah.... My 95 six banger pickup truck gets 18 on the highway. which is what I am getting around town with the new vehicle.

Winder · 06-20-2014, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by OregonJim

Wow, that's what new vehicles are getting these days? I've got a sixteen year old SUV with a big 'ol V8 engine that gets the same mpg. I thought we were doing better...

Ethanol blends are less energy dense than pure gasoline, so it takes more of it to travel the same distance.

wombat2go · 06-20-2014, 06:10 AM

There are pros and cons on the reasons for any country to use ethanol mixes.

I mostly use E10 in an SRX and it gets 22mpg on freeway , no noticeable difference with 87 gasoline

Gasoline HHV = 47 MJ/kg, Ethanol HHV= 30 MJ/kg

So, E10 is (90% of 47) + (10% of 30) which is 45.3 MJ/kg or 96.3% of gasoline's specific energy. ( by weight)

But E10 with extra oxygen,has a higher effective octane rating (~94) then the standard gasoline in USA of 87

Some engine controls, (like the defunct Saab) could, I read, adjust the timing etc.

Back in the 1960's in Australia drivers will remember pre-ignition or "pinging in the summer when GM and Ford introduced the higher compression engines into Australia.

The boy racers liked to add ethanol, or better, methyl benzine to their "petrol"
At that time I was working after school in a service station and on Friday nights the boys came in and I would pour a in 2 gallon measure of methyl benzine and they would adjust their timing before going out the road for a few races.
That stuff is deadly, you would stagger if breathing a big enough whiff, no wonder wife says I am crazy these days.

Rupert · 06-20-2014, 06:56 AM

This is so simple! Otis says only stupid humans would not realize that corn is for eating. His ending comment was "what the hell is wrong with the human mind?"

Regards!

Winder · 06-20-2014, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by wombat2go

So, E10 is (90% of 47) + (10% of 30) which is 45.3 MJ/kg or 96.3% of gasoline's specific energy. ( by weight)

Yes, but the difference in MPG in my wife's SUV is almost 20% depending on where were are going and how we drive.

Originally posted by wombat2go

But E10 with extra oxygen,has a higher effective octane rating (~94) then the standard gasoline in USA of 87

You can do the same thing with gasoline. Increase the octane rating and run at higher compression to gain more power and economy. I have built small block Ford motors up to 12:1, and my current 400 is running 9.2:1 with custom pistons, aluminum heads and 87 pump gas. I never could have done that with factory open chamber 2V cast iron heads and dish pistons.

---------- Post added 06-20-14 at 09:26 AM ----------

Originally posted by Rupert

This is so simple! Otis says only stupid humans would not realize that corn is for eating. His ending comment was "what the hell is wrong with the human mind?"

Biofuels Are Bad for Feeding People and Combating Climate Change - Scientific American

Billions of dollars in subsidies are what's wrong.

Parallax · 06-20-2014, 07:54 AM - **1 Like**

I'm a big fan of ethanol.

Sometimes I even use gasoline blended with it.

**monochrome** · 06-20-2014, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Biofuels Are Bad for Feeding People and Combating Climate Change - Scientific American

Billions of dollars in subsidies are what's wrong.

Yes, if your diet is based on the corn tortilla as a staple you really don't appreciate E10 or E15 fuels.

**Lowell Goudge** · 06-20-2014, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Yes, but the difference in MPG in my wife's SUV is almost 20% depending on where were are going and how we drive.

. My toyota 4runner does not notice the difference until you cruse above 55. At light load and low speed it is not an issue, but when the aerodynamic drag goes up (with the square of the speed) the efficiency really falls off. At moderate power there is a big difference

**Just1MoreDave** · 06-20-2014, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by patrick9

Not really. The cars today weight half again- to double what they did 20 years ago. Thanks to all the safety equipment, wiring, computers, etc. I had to spend the day in class yesterday to learn to repair the 2015 F-150. It has an aluminum body. weighs 700 lbs less than the 2014 and is still double the weight of its great-great-great-great granddaddy the 1948 F-1.

Exactly. I expect the next step is carbon fiber. Even a Mini is 2600 pounds now.

The 2015 car we have on order is OK with E15 or E10. It doesn't want any methanol.

Na Horuk · 06-20-2014, 10:46 AM

Here in Europe almost all gas stations sell gas mixed with ethanol. I no longer use it, though

06-19-2014, 05:00 PM	#1
royden Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Atlanta, Ga Photos: Gallery Posts: 297	E-15 gasoline A friend sent me an email with two links. I've never seen E-15 etc at any gas pump. Have you? Watch video about E15 gas if you have a car older than 2012 ........ www.youtube.com/embed/ceW9Nc1hVHU?feature=player_detailpage Snopes.com offers much of the same info(with a little more historical perspective)... snopes.com: E15 Gasoline

06-20-2014, 10:46 AM	#15
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Here in Europe almost all gas stations sell gas mixed with ethanol. I no longer use it, though Last edited by Na Horuk; 06-20-2014 at 10:59 AM.

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06-19-2014, 08:31 PM	#2
patrick9 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Murfreesboro Tennessee Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,458	We just had to buy a new vehicle. We got a Flex Fuel one. It is rated at 19 mpg on reg E-10 fuel, But only 14mpg on E-15. I for one do not plan on purchasing E15 fuel if I can avoid it

06-19-2014, 09:58 PM - 1 Like	#3
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	With all the blended ethanol, it is amazing that people have not cried foul with the price of fuel. The difference in energy content, of blended ethanol is amazing, and we should be paying for energy content not simply by volume, because ethanol blended fuels are noticibly inferiorior and you can see the variation from tank to tank

06-19-2014, 10:10 PM	#4
OregonJim Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon Posts: 1,327	Originally posted by patrick9 We just had to buy a new vehicle. We got a Flex Fuel one. It is rated at 19 mpg on reg E-10 fuel Wow, that's what new vehicles are getting these days? I've got a sixteen year old SUV with a big 'ol V8 engine that gets the same mpg. I thought we were doing better...

06-19-2014, 11:25 PM	#5
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by OregonJim Wow, that's what new vehicles are getting these days? I've got a sixteen year old SUV with a big 'ol V8 engine that gets the same mpg. I thought we were doing better... Emissions controls, and all the fancy electronics have not made engines more efficient, just cleaner.

06-20-2014, 04:39 AM	#6
patrick9 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Murfreesboro Tennessee Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,458	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge ethanol blended fuels are noticibly inferiorior and you can see the variation from tank to tank Agreed ethanol just doesn't have the energy that oil does . Originally posted by Lowell Goudge Emissions controls, and all the fancy electronics have not made engines more efficient, just cleaner. Not really. The cars today weight half again- to double what they did 20 years ago. Thanks to all the safety equipment, wiring, computers, etc. I had to spend the day in class yesterday to learn to repair the 2015 F-150. It has an aluminum body. weighs 700 lbs less than the 2014 and is still double the weight of its great-great-great-great granddaddy the 1948 F-1 Originally posted by OregonJim Wow, that's what new vehicles are getting these days? I've got a sixteen year old SUV with a big 'ol V8 engine that gets the same mpg. I thought we were doing better... Yeah.... My 95 six banger pickup truck gets 18 on the highway. which is what I am getting around town with the new vehicle.

06-20-2014, 04:48 AM	#7
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by OregonJim Wow, that's what new vehicles are getting these days? I've got a sixteen year old SUV with a big 'ol V8 engine that gets the same mpg. I thought we were doing better... Ethanol blends are less energy dense than pure gasoline, so it takes more of it to travel the same distance.

06-20-2014, 06:10 AM	#8
wombat2go Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Michigan Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	There are pros and cons on the reasons for any country to use ethanol mixes. I mostly use E10 in an SRX and it gets 22mpg on freeway , no noticeable difference with 87 gasoline Gasoline HHV = 47 MJ/kg, Ethanol HHV= 30 MJ/kg So, E10 is (90% of 47) + (10% of 30) which is 45.3 MJ/kg or 96.3% of gasoline's specific energy. ( by weight) But E10 with extra oxygen,has a higher effective octane rating (~94) then the standard gasoline in USA of 87 Some engine controls, (like the defunct Saab) could, I read, adjust the timing etc. Back in the 1960's in Australia drivers will remember pre-ignition or "pinging in the summer when GM and Ford introduced the higher compression engines into Australia. The boy racers liked to add ethanol, or better, methyl benzine to their "petrol" At that time I was working after school in a service station and on Friday nights the boys came in and I would pour a in 2 gallon measure of methyl benzine and they would adjust their timing before going out the road for a few races. That stuff is deadly, you would stagger if breathing a big enough whiff, no wonder wife says I am crazy these days.

06-20-2014, 06:56 AM	#9
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	This is so simple! Otis says only stupid humans would not realize that corn is for eating. His ending comment was "what the hell is wrong with the human mind?" Regards!

06-20-2014, 07:24 AM	#10
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by wombat2go So, E10 is (90% of 47) + (10% of 30) which is 45.3 MJ/kg or 96.3% of gasoline's specific energy. ( by weight) Yes, but the difference in MPG in my wife's SUV is almost 20% depending on where were are going and how we drive. Originally posted by wombat2go But E10 with extra oxygen,has a higher effective octane rating (~94) then the standard gasoline in USA of 87 You can do the same thing with gasoline. Increase the octane rating and run at higher compression to gain more power and economy. I have built small block Ford motors up to 12:1, and my current 400 is running 9.2:1 with custom pistons, aluminum heads and 87 pump gas. I never could have done that with factory open chamber 2V cast iron heads and dish pistons. ---------- Post added 06-20-14 at 09:26 AM ---------- Originally posted by Rupert This is so simple! Otis says only stupid humans would not realize that corn is for eating. His ending comment was "what the hell is wrong with the human mind?" Biofuels Are Bad for Feeding People and Combating Climate Change - Scientific American Billions of dollars in subsidies are what's wrong.

06-20-2014, 07:54 AM - 1 Like	#11
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	I'm a big fan of ethanol. Sometimes I even use gasoline blended with it.

06-20-2014, 08:06 AM	#12
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Winder Biofuels Are Bad for Feeding People and Combating Climate Change - Scientific American Billions of dollars in subsidies are what's wrong. Yes, if your diet is based on the corn tortilla as a staple you really don't appreciate E10 or E15 fuels.

06-20-2014, 10:17 AM	#13
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by Winder Yes, but the difference in MPG in my wife's SUV is almost 20% depending on where were are going and how we drive. . My toyota 4runner does not notice the difference until you cruse above 55. At light load and low speed it is not an issue, but when the aerodynamic drag goes up (with the square of the speed) the efficiency really falls off. At moderate power there is a big difference

06-20-2014, 10:28 AM	#14
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	Originally posted by patrick9 Not really. The cars today weight half again- to double what they did 20 years ago. Thanks to all the safety equipment, wiring, computers, etc. I had to spend the day in class yesterday to learn to repair the 2015 F-150. It has an aluminum body. weighs 700 lbs less than the 2014 and is still double the weight of its great-great-great-great granddaddy the 1948 F-1. Exactly. I expect the next step is carbon fiber. Even a Mini is 2600 pounds now. The 2015 car we have on order is OK with E15 or E10. It doesn't want any methanol.