[magkelly]

This is my itinerary so far for the Grand Tour trip I hope to make someday...

NYC
Southhampton Port
New Forest
Salisbury (Stonehenge/Woodhenge)
Avebury (Stone Circles)
Glastonbury
Bath
Brighton
Cardiff
Cornwall Truro/Poldark Mine
London
Newstead Abbey/St Mary's Hucknall
Nottingham/Sherwood Forest
Ireland (Newgrange, Drogheda, Dublin, Connemara)
Scotland (Edinburgh, Highlands, Glenfinnan)
France (Paris, Lourdes?)
Austria (Vienna)
Italy (Rome, Venice, Florence?) (Might fly home from here...)
Barcelona? (Might sail home from here...)
Denmark?
Prague?
Gothenburg?
Athens?
Hungary/Romania?

The places with question marks are places I'd like to see, but where or not I'll ever get there or not is up in the air. I'll have about a 10K-12K budget for this trip. How much I'll get to do is dependent upon how long the $$$ hold out. I'll probably bussing it a lot, walking a lot, and staying in less expensive places like hostels and convents just to be able to do it. I won't be eating much at restaurants and that either. I tend to grab stuff at the local markets and picnic when I travel. I might have one good meal in each place but I won't be traveling fancy. I'd rather see places than eat gourmet. I want to go for at least a couple of months I think but again, it all will depend upon how far the $$$ go.

The reason I am going through NY and Southampton is because I'll likely be taking a ship at least one way. Maybe both ways, not sure. I have major trouble with my ears on planes these days and so long as I have plenty of sea sick pills I rather like being on a big ship besides so I'm thinking I might cruise over and back. I've always wanted to go on the QE2. You can get fares as low as $1100 one way and that's 10 days on a cruise ship with meals included I think so that's cool by me. Plus some ships they dock in Barcelona too so that might be fun. I'd get to see at least one city in Spain.

NY I plan on staying 2-3 nights. That's my old stomping ground though and I still have friends there so I won't be renting a hotel room most likely. I'd want at least 2-3 days so I can go to Lincoln Center, the Met Museum, the Natural History Museum and eat at Flor de Mayo at least once. (I have a real thing for their Peruvian chicken. It still haunts me years later. I will not leave NYC until I get to eat some, lol.) I like Chinatown too, and there is no decent Chinese food here, so I might have dinner one night down there with my friends. They'll probably know who's strictly for the tourists these days and who's not, and who's likely to give us food poisoning, or not. We used to eat downstairs at Wo Hop all the time but that was years ago and I don't know where to eat there now. I suppose I'll have to walk down Broadway and see the Disney version of Times Square too though that will make me sad probably as I loved the seedy old version of it I knew...

How about you? Where do you want to go? Anything I should add on for the non-NYC part of the UK/Europe trip that's pretty affordable?

[Richard Briggs]

Sorry to those who live in Brighton but I've never been impressed I'm afraid. There's many other places in the south of the UK that you'd be better spending your time going to. Or simply spend more time at the places you have listed.


Richard

[Tom S.]

This is the trip my wife and I went on two years ago. It doesn't cover everything on your list, but it hits a lot of them. It was 100% guided and the guide was extremely knowledgeable about the history of everywhere we went. We were so satisfied, we're considering a repeat visit. BTW: I ended up with something like 1400 pictures.

[magkelly]

Sorry to those who live in Brighton but I've never been impressed I'm afraid. There's many other places in the south of the UK that you'd be better spending your time going to. Or simply spend more time at the places you have listed.


Richard

This is why Brighton. I have a regency novel thing, sue me. I have to see this. I've been reading about it in books since I was like 8. That's also why Bath. If you were unwittingly addicted to your Mom's regency romances at a very young age you'd understand. My Mom used to read stacks of them and so did I when I finished other kinds of books I had from the library, school etc. Even now if I am totally bored with reading NF or my usual choice in fiction I still will grab a regency romance to while away an hour. It's a guilty pleasure thing.

Royal Pavilion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

---------- Post added 07-11-14 at 10:47 AM ----------

This is the trip my wife and I went on two years ago. It doesn't cover everything on your list, but it hits a lot of them. It was 100% guided and the guide was extremely knowledgeable about the history of everywhere we went. We were so satisfied, we're considering a repeat visit. BTW: I ended up with something like 1400 pictures.

Thanks, I thought about that because it would certainly make for less wear and tear on me in some ways but the problem with tours like this is that they do a lot of places I'd just as soon not see, and skip a few important ones I really do want to see. The Bryon related stuff, for instance, that's just a not miss for me. I'm a huge Byron fan so I am definitely not going to England and not seeing his abbey or his grave. No way. I also have things I want to see more of than the average person. London I'm staying a month just so I can see at least a few of the museums on my list. The New Forest and Glastonbury I want to spend at least a few days there and most of the guided tours you're lucky if you get a whole day at each place.

There's a lot of stuff a tour would do that I honestly could not care less about like Buckingham Palace and the Tower of London. London Bridge, Big Ben, whatever. I could spend a week just at the Tate on the other hand. I'm an art, archeology, and theater freak. If I am going on vacation I want to see the ancient circles and stuff like that, the art museums, and maybe hit a few cool small plays that I can't just go to NYC to see on Broadway. I love animals so the New Forest exhibits and London Zoo that's a thing I'd want to do. I know I'm going to want to wander all over London, see places I've always read about. But most of the tourist stuff that people do, that's really not all that interesting to me.

About the only tourist attractions I think I might make time for are Madame Tussaud's because I love wax museums and the Jack the Ripper tour, because I've read every Ripper book ever written I think and I'd like to go. That's why Cardiff too. It wasn't on the list actually until they opened the Doctor Who museum. But that's a must see, for me. Other than that it's the art museums, and just wandering around seeing various neighborhoods in London, maybe going to some of the fun outdoor markets, and that. Little Venice looks like of interesting, someone just told me about that, said I'd likely enjoy that.

I tend to like very low key holidays, flexible plans, and a slower pace than some people. The autoimmune thing that tends to make me slow down whether I like it or not and if I don't want to get sick I have to stay inside a lot and watch how much sun exposure I get. 1 day in 3 is usually spent resting up and not doing much. I'm probably going to rent a flat room for at least 3 weeks in London via Air B&B maybe. Or stay in hostels for part of it. Or convents. Whatever is the cheapest and safest deal for me given I am a woman and likely traveling alone. London is the place I am planning on spending the most time in though. Everything else is a few days, or a week here or there at most. But London I want to spend some serious time there.

The rest of my trip will cost me a lot, but London that's mostly lodging, the tube, the odd low end theater ticket and food. I'm not going to be paying for orchestra seats in the West End, let's put it that way. Overall London is not cheap but museums there are cheap, and I could stare at art for months on end so that gives me plenty to do that won't break the bank. It will be fun but not so expensive as some of the other things tourists usually like to do. It's hard and I realize I probably won't get to see some stuff on my list depending upon what my health does. But it's a 3 month trip and if I pace myself I should be able to see a lot I hope. I'd like to stay longer actually but the budget probably won't stretch to that...

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Last edited by magkelly; 07-11-2014 at 07:49 AM.

[Tom S.]

Funny you should mention the London Zoo. I read a book on the Royal families of England, and if memory serves me right, the zoo was founded by George II. At the time, he brought in lions and tigers (among other animals). To gain admittance to the zoo, you could either pay a fee, or bring a dog or cat to feed to the big cats. Don't worry, it's not like that now.

[Dariusz]

Anything I should add on for the non-NYC part of the UK/Europe trip that's pretty affordable?

While in Southampton/Brighton area, visit Portsmouth HMS Victory. If in Corwnall - St. Michael's Mount. Have you been considering Poland? Malbork castle, former Nazi WWII death camps, Hitler's bunkers are there. Millau Viaduct in France..

[magkelly]

I did think about taking a Rhine Castle cruise because that would appeal but I'm not too keen on visiting Germany or Poland really. My great grandparents on the maternal side were Austrian and Hungarian/Romany respectively and they fled the Nazi's because of the miscegenation laws. The last thing I want to see is anything concerning Hitler, the Nazis and former death camps. There's a holocaust museum here. I forced myself to go when it first opened. I ended up in the bathroom throwing up before I was done. I kid you not. It's one thing to read about WW2 and Nazi atrocities it's another entirely to step into some place like Auschwitz-Birkenau. I could not handle that. It would be an emotional and psychic overload and it would probably make me very sick and upset.

I actually try to avoid visiting historical places where there was a high concentration of deaths, particularly on vacation where I'm trying to have fun and relax. I also try to avoid places that have a reputation for being notably haunted. At the risk of sounding like a total flake, cough, blush, I've had some rather um interesting experiences, seen some pretty unexplainable things, several times in my life, had what I saw verified as real. Contrary to what most people keen on running around ghost hunting seem to think I didn't find encountering anything like that fascinating or fun. I found it very unnerving.

I'm a very logical, skeptical person. To have my mind messed with, to have things happen that I could not just debunk and explain away, that was not an easy thing for me. I came to a belief in the paranormal rather unwillingly and I still to this day do not believe most of the stuff people say, the stories they tell are legit. I think 95% of it can be explained away. But the other 5%? That's just a bit harder and having experienced it I have to keep a somewhat open mind. I'm not one of these people who say "never" when it comes to stuff like ghosts. But I don't actively court paranormal encounters either.

Going to Europe is going to be a bit of a challenge for me I'm sure. On one hand I really, really love the idea of seeing places that are thousands of years old, but on the other I'm not keen on potentially encountering spirits either. I doubt it will happen, even in Europe, but then again I never thought for a minute I'd have the experiences I've had here either. The oldest places here that I've ever visited in America were a fort from the late 1700's, and an inn from about the same time, and Mount Vernon. The fort and Mount Vernon, no problem. Mt Vernon was pretty nice actually. I got a good feeling there mostly. But that inn? The stuff I saw and felt there scared the crap out of me at the time and for the record going in I had NO idea the place was supposed to be haunted. The so called friend that took me there didn't bother to mention it and it was long before Google.

He had a big thing for ghost hunting. Long before there were multitudes of paranormal reality TV shows he used to talk about wanting to ghost hunt all the time. I thought he was a bit unwise. After a while I had finally talked a bit about the experiences I'd had with him. I was admittedly trying to warn him off. I wanted to dampen his enthusiasm a bit. It did just the opposite. He was intrigued but he also didn't believe me and set about debunking me. We had gone to several interesting places, historical ones, and this was quite a while after that discussion so I didn't think anything of him wanting to see the inn. I walked in there and immediately it was like "Oh F-!" The place was crawling with stuff.

I won't go into the gory details but by the time he was done Mr Skeptic Wanna Be Ghost Hunter was 100% convinced that I wasn't just making it all up and the tour guide had confirmed some things I'd said matched up with historical record there and she had tape recorded everything I had said I'd seen for future reference. She had also invited me to talk to a medium that she knew and believed in and who was supposedly legit. I spoke to that woman before we left. She took one look at me, told me I could, and asked me if I wanted to be trained to do what she did. I said " H- NO!" (She wasn't the last supposedly legit medium to say so either.)

I don't mess with that stuff. No seances or ghost hunts for me and I'm not intentionally going to stay in some reputedly haunted castle or inn or castle or some place like that. Last thing I'd ever want is to wake up at 3AM with some disgruntled ex-maid moaning and swearing beside my bed because she's stuck in the place she once served in, forever scrubbing chamber pots. Or worse yet some headless apparition who lost their head on the block or on the battlefield. I want a nice, sane normal vacation. I want to see tons of art and lovely places, and meet lovely people and have good times and not end up scared out my wits even once. The Jack The Ripper Tour and the scary sections at Madame Tussaud's is about as horrific as I'd want to get on vacation, thank you. :P

I knew about Portsmouth and the HMS Victory. I knew about Cornwall and St. Michael's Mount. But I didn't know about the Millau Viaduct in France. I'll have to look that up. I'm kind of looking for some more places to go in France besides Paris and Lourdes. I don't know France well and considering I half speak the language having taken it in school I really should see more of it than just those two places. Paris, well I can't go to France and not see Paris. Lourdes and the tale of Bernadette that has always fascinated me since I read about it as a kid and I hear that Lourdes is the Catholic equivalent of Disney complete with tacky souvenir shops galore. I'm not even Catholic and I want to see it. Probably if I have time I'd like to see the cathedral at Chartres too. I've walked the labyrinth at Grace in San Francisco many times and Grace is basically a smaller clone of Chartres so it would be interesting to see that and walk theirs if I can. I'm not religious but I do admittedly have a love of the trappings of religion, it's art and architecture. I like visiting old Abbeys and churches and I absolutely must walk every labyrinth I encounter. I make a point of going to places that have them actually so I can walk them. There's a big list of them, all over the world online, and I'll probably pick a dozen to walk at least. I love gardens and mazes too but being outdoors is very hard for me and I can't see as much of those as I'd like.

I'd actually like to hit the UK well before the official tourist season because I'd really prefer chilly, rainy weather and far less sun but most of the ships they sail in the late Spring and Summer unfortunately. Like I said flying is awful on my ears. I do everything I can, take decongestants, use those special ear plugs and it still messes with me. I am very sensitive to air pressure changes these days. Among other things I have Sjogren's Syndrome and my ears are badly affected. Even when it's just pressure from the weather changing my ears can really hurt. Last time I went flying cross country it was killer painful. The trip out wasn't so bad but the trip back was horrible, with tons of turbulence and air pressure changes and my ears didn't recover for literally weeks after. I'm thinking cruising there and back might be a lot kinder on my ears and when I go I will be in no real hurry. Probably could use the week before and after to thoroughly rest actually. I'm also thinking of doing an around Europe cruise but not until I've got England, Ireland, Scotland, Paris and Rome done. I'm a bit more flexible on the rest, but those are the places I want to cover in depth and I'd like to stay a bit longer than a cruise ship tour would allow me. My projected budget is like 10-12K but I guess that might be increased a bit depending upon what I can sell.

This trip it's something I am planning on doing way down the road once Dad passes. It's a transitional life is changing kind of thing. Before I move out to Seattle or where ever I will end up I just want to take a long trip and see something of the rest of the world. I've been out to the west coast and up and down the east coast, once to the Bahamas, but that's it. I've never been overseas and I always wanted to go. It's been a life long dream with me to go. I've talked with Dad about it and he agrees that I should take some of the insurance money and go. He went all over the place as a young man in the military and he says he is really happy he did have that experience. I won't have a lot of money when he goes but I could make the 10K happen and still have enough to buy another mobile home someplace out there. I'm half way through my own life, maybe more given my health situation sometimes, and I don't want to not go while I still could. If I do nothing else before I die I really want to do this.

I should have gone back in 2002 actually when I did have the money and could have gone. I didn't, mainly because of 9-11 and the aftermath. I went out to San Francisco to go to school instead and while I loved San Francisco, California in general, I still really regret not getting on a plane and doing my Grand Tour . I told Dad that if nothing else I want to see Ireland and London. Connemara Ireland for reasons of ancestry, his side of the family hails from there, and London, because I'm an admitted anglophile and I've always wanted to see it. Connemara and London they're like my Mecca. If I could afford nothing else I'd go there....

How far I'll go, how much I'll see will depend a lot upon how far my money goes and how cheaply I can lodge. I can skimp on food and not stay in hotels, and stay away from most of the usual attractions that cost lots of money to see but with the exchange rate being what it is I'm sure I still won't get to see it all. When it comes to traveling I kind of wish I was a guy sometimes. Guys can couch surf. But being a woman, alone, that's just not a great thing for me. I expect 2/3 of my budget will be lodging and getting places. My pics will have to be my souvenirs...

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Last edited by magkelly; 07-11-2014 at 08:41 PM.

[Jasvox]

This is the trip my wife and I went on two years ago. It doesn't cover everything on your list, but it hits a lot of them. It was 100% guided and the guide was extremely knowledgeable about the history of everywhere we went. We were so satisfied, we're considering a repeat visit. BTW: I ended up with something like 1400 pictures.

Your Guide's name wasn't Jason by any chance? I used to Guide 5 week pan-European (for 10 years) and traveled to all of these places an many more. What a life.

Jason

[red5isalive]

Hey MagKelly about your list, I have done so far those ones

NYC
London
France (Paris,etc)
Austria (Vienna)
Italy (Rome, Venice, Florence?) (Might fly home from here...)
Barcelona? (Might sail home from here...) I'm from there, so yes I have visited my city xD
Denmark?
Prague? I've been living 3 months there and visited a few times that same year too; it's a beautiful city you might love it
Gothenburg? I have lived in Sweden for half a year so yes, I visited Gothenburg as well. I might recommend Stockholm a thousand times before Gothenburg, but if you want to visit it, it's fine


About what to visit, no doubt to me you are missing Berlin wich is a wonderful city, Dresden quite close is very nice to visit, and Köln is quite another city to visit in germany. I'd say once in Viena, the Alps aren't that far away, and Bratislava is quite close to Viena (I think it tooks 45 minuts by train or less).

A part from that I've heard Budapest is wonderful so you should not miss it, Crakow and Warsaw in Poland are nice cities as well, and if you are in the north I might recomend to visit the Norwegian Fiords, so far a wonderful spot. Tallin in Estonia is a nice city to visit in a day or two as well, and once in Europe why not visiting Russia? I mean, Saint Petersburg and Moscow are very nice, and their churches, their churches and subway would blow your mind out!

But about Barcelona, do it What else should I say? xD

[magkelly]

Money, it only goes SO far. That's about all the itinerary I can afford I think and I'm not even sure I can cover all of that. Germany is very low on my list of places I'd want to visit. Spain too. I really can't find much that I'd want to see there except maybe Barcelona and I'm iffy on that. I have to make it to the England, Ireland, Scotland at the very least. That's the best of my roots. I don't want to set foot in Berlin, not ever. Just no.

I don't care how great a city it was or is. The footprints of the Nazis, of the past, it looms way too large for me. What happened in WW2 it's still very personal for me. My Dad served in it, fought Hitler, and my great grandparents were nearly killed fleeing it. I just don't think I can go and see someplace like Auschwitz and simply treat it as a memorial museum. That city, you go there and to this day there are reminders of what happened, of the Nazis. It's utterly creepy to me, the idea of walking around as a tourist there. I know their descendants are not at fault. I would not put the blame on them, and I am sure in some ways Berlin is probably lovely, but still, I just can't holiday there.

I would actually love to go to Romania too someday and to Russia. But that's not something I'd feel too comfortable doing on my own. I've pretty much given up on Egypt and India too though I always wanted to go there. With what's been going on, and all the incidents of violence against women it's the last place I should go. I'm also very curious about Medjugorje because of all the controversy over the Marian shrine there. But that's not someplace I'd ever travel on my own either. I find the whole thing fascinating though I will admit. The whole idea of visionaries, shrines, apparitions. That's why I'm definitely going to Lourdes. That place, it's fascinated me since I was a kid. I just don't quite know what to make of it really. I plan on visiting Knock in Ireland too maybe. Like I said above, not Catholic, but I find it interesting nonetheless and I'd like to see a Marian shrine or two for myself. Lourdes and Knock are the ones that interest me the most so...

I have an art thing for Madonnas, angels, stuff like that. I can't wait to get to Europe and see all those old churches and graveyards. There are some cool old graveyards here but it's nothing like it is over there. The pics I've seen? I'm crazy to go just so I can do the museums, the old churches, graveyards, stuff like that. I get to Rome and I'll probably come home with like one picture of the infamous Coliseum and 10K pics of angels, holy statues, and gargoyles. Oh, and cats because I'll spend half my time photographing the feral cat colonies in Rome rather than the famous architecture. No, I'm not kidding. I have a couple of places like that on my itinerary. I'd rather see the cat colonies than the Leaning Tower of Pisa, lol...

[red5isalive]

I see,
Well, everyone has it's opinion and their feelings so I won't say more; to me Germany wasn't a place to visit because of WW2, but also shouldn't be Spain where a dictator has been in power until 1975; anyway I'm born here, and I know that was wrong and I am totally against it. I can tell what my parents had to suffer all those 40 years that this dictatorship has been in the country. Nevertheless things change, and people's minds seems to change (not too much in deep spain), but if you visit Barcelona, this is not a common city. Not only special, but barcelonians think different, we are more europeans than the rest of the country. To me, I'd never visit Israel because of what they do year after year against the palestinians. Even more, in my case, some years ago I thought I'd never visit the US, but later on I visited it, and I must say I have loved it and changed my mind. Same thing with France, even tho it's not my favourite country tho.

Anyway I understand your point of view; I was just about trying to help out, and actually I thought this is a very nice city.
Your trip, your destinations, your rules, but I can't get why so much England with probably not much to offer, and why would you miss one of the most impressive churches you'll ever see (Sagrada Família, in Barcelona).

One last reccomendation if you allow me, Stockholm is a geougeos city. Hope nothing is wrong with the Swedes (well, actually some things are wrong with them to me, that I have spent some months living there but anyway....). Everyone has their own point of view, to me Lourdes has interest zero. As I said, everyone has their own interests.

Enjoy your trip and have fun That's all that matters when you trip, that you enjoy

[magkelly]

Why so much England? Well, like I said, that area of the world is where my family is originally from and there's tons for me to do actually. 2500 plus art museums for instance. I could cheerfully spend a year in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales were I able to afford it. Truth be told, I'd probably never come back here if they'd let me stay. But that's not likely possible and there's Seattle eventually at least. :P

[red5isalive]

I see, well that's nice then, but to me that I have no family there, most of those places sounds like a place I won't visit usually.

[Tom S.]

Your Guide's name wasn't Jason by any chance? I used to Guide 5 week pan-European (for 10 years) and traveled to all of these places an many more. What a life.

Jason

Sorry I'm late getting back to you, but no that wasn't his name. He was Irish, had a degree in history and his name was Julian.

[robthebloke]

I live 'down south' near Southampton, so this is my opinion (knowing the area).

Southhampton Port - get out of Soton quickly!

New Forest - I'm a bit mixed on this really. It is pretty, but it's not as impressive as you might imagine (I've always preferred the forest of dean myself)

Salisbury (Stonehenge/Woodhenge) - its a little regimented, so you can only get close to the stones on the summer and winter solstices (although expect it to be filled with druggies, drummers, and drunks at the summer solstice!)

At this point, I'd recommend following the south coast towards Devon.

Check out web pages for the south west coastal path (the scenery along the Jurassic coast is stunning). Durdle door, corfe, studland beach, tank museum, an evening at the square & compass at worth matravers (best pub in the world), and that's all before you hit Devon/Cornwall.

Devon/Cornwall next

Then head back up to Glastonbury, bath, Avebury.

Brighton at this point, is miles away!! (and in the wrong direction!)

Cardiff is a cool place, but anything on the south coast of Wales is basically an industrial/mining area. The Gower is stunning, as are the breckon beacons, and north Wales in general (ie llangollen [pronounced thlan-goth-len], anglesea, Ruthin, etc)

I'd possibly then look at getting a ferry from Wales to Ireland, travel around Ireland, and then get a ferry from Belfast over to Scotland (despite its reputation, Belfast is a wonderful place, and the drive upto the giants causeway is stunning).

See what you want to see in Scotland, and then head south towards Nottingham, before heading down to Oxford (which I'd probably recommend as a substitute for Brighton).

From Oxford it's trivial to head into London (get the Oxford tube coach into London - 24hr coach service that's nice, quick, and cheap. You then get choices of alighting at Notting hill, marble arch [for Oxford street], or victoria [for Buckingham palace, Westminster, abbey road, south bank]. The train is a bit quicker, but will dump you at paddington. Whatever you do, don't drive into London!!!!!).

If you want a really long tour of Europe, I'd avoid staying in London too long (maybe a day trip?). It's an absurdly expensive place! That's kinda why I recommend Oxford (because it also has reliable coach services to Luton, gatwick, and heathrow - so you should be able to channel hop from there quite easily - unless of course you just take the euro tunnel from Waterloo to paris, if you want to spend longer in London and avoid flying)

A few tips about travelling around the uk though. Train tickets are cheaper if you buy them a few weeks in advance (and they get expensive if you buy on the day). It can be worth buying two journeys instead of one (for example, if I get a ticket from Bournemouth to Birmingham, it's more expensive than buying a ticket from Bournemouth to southampton, and one from southampton to Birmingham - just an oddity of the way the trains work over here). Coaches are generally cheaper, trains are usually faster.

If you are going by coach, in places this can be annoying (because routes radiate out from London), so you might want to do a bit of planning first! In some places, it may be easier to hire a car (be warned, our petrol prices are expensive!)

Megabus.com is the best place to buy cheap coach tickets (which will put you on the same coaches as the expensive places - eg national express, stagecoach, et al - just at reduced prices).

Hope that helps!