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08-16-2014, 07:23 PM   #46
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Tom, all I can say is you clearly have no idea of what it's like to deal with that level of addiction, depression or pain. Living with my Mom was like living in a different kind of war zone. It absolutely does relate, and while I was not diagnosed with clinical depression I was, and am, afflicted with PTSD just like war veterans. I still to this day wake up screaming from bad nightmares involving my mother. I have flashbacks while awake. Again, just like a vet. A dozen years of therapy and I've yet to completely get her out of my head, shrug. It's definitely been an ongoing process with me the healing, the forgiving. I get Williams because I am enduring something like his struggle every darned day. Between the PTSD and the chronic pain I am in mentally and physically it's exhausting, and it breaks you down.

FYI, I'm a military brat. My Dad served, and so did several of my brothers. I've done my share of volunteer work with Am Vets over the years. Vets and their troubles, it's been an issue close to my heart all my life. War is hell, but at least when it's over it's over. There's and end to the physical terrors of battle if not the bad memories. You're finally away from it and hopefully with help you heal the body and then the mind. Dealing with clinical depression, with addiction, with chronic pain it's a life long war, one that never stops, one that never lets go of you.

No, I didn't spend 4 years in someplace like Iraq getting shot at or watching my buddies die, but my childhood was no picnic. I spent every night of my childhood life almost completely terrorized by my mother, listening to her and my Dad argue. She abused me verbally and physically for many years until I was finally old enough and big enough to stand up and defend myself. (So did my Dad.) At school I was bullied incessantly so I was a kid living on the edge every single moment. It never stopped. I never got addicted, dumb luck there, but I can still understand why Williams finally just couldn't take it anymore.

He was clinically depressed for most of his life. His brain was literally wired to be suicidal. He was fighting a very real battle against that tendency with everything in him for YEARS. He also became addicted to chemicals both clinical and recreational which certainly did not help. He was probably just barely hanging on probably most of the time. Now go and add in a new thing, a very scary major illness that had the potential to be devastating. I don't have to ask why he finally gave up. I've been there, gotten that diagnosis on top of everything else. There's only so much sh- any person can take and when you've been living like that all your life that "one more thing" it can finally break you.

Robin Williams was the antitheses of the word coward. He very bravely fought a very hard battle for most of his life, endured a mental hell that many of us could not, fought, until at last he could fight no more. He did it with grace, humor and amazing kindness considering. He does not deserve anyone's condemnation. If I could I'd hug him and I'd give him a darned medal just for managing that long. I will miss his presence upon this earth, and feel terrible for his loved ones, but condemn him for finally losing his battle when he fought so hard, for so long? Nope.

08-17-2014, 10:17 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
...Robin Williams was the antitheses of the word coward...
Umm, that would be "courageous?" But I agree. He was diagnosed with Parkinson's and wanted to spare himself and everyone else that cared about him the misery of his decay. I have seen Parkinson's take the life of one of my uncles. There was no good to be had by his hanging on. He was just too debilitated to take his own life but I am pretty sure that he wanted to.
08-17-2014, 10:20 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Tom, all I can say is you clearly have no idea of what it's like to deal with that level of addiction, depression or pain. Living with my Mom was like living in a different kind of war zone. It absolutely does relate, and while I was not diagnosed with clinical depression I was, and am, afflicted with PTSD just like war veterans. I still to this day wake up screaming from bad nightmares involving my mother. I have flashbacks while awake. Again, just like a vet. A dozen years of therapy and I've yet to completely get her out of my head, shrug. It's definitely been an ongoing process with me the healing, the forgiving. I get Williams because I am enduring something like his struggle every darned day. Between the PTSD and the chronic pain I am in mentally and physically it's exhausting, and it breaks you down.

FYI, I'm a military brat. My Dad served, and so did several of my brothers. I've done my share of volunteer work with Am Vets over the years. Vets and their troubles, it's been an issue close to my heart all my life. War is hell, but at least when it's over it's over. There's and end to the physical terrors of battle if not the bad memories. You're finally away from it and hopefully with help you heal the body and then the mind. Dealing with clinical depression, with addiction, with chronic pain it's a life long war, one that never stops, one that never lets go of you.

No, I didn't spend 4 years in someplace like Iraq getting shot at or watching my buddies die, but my childhood was no picnic. I spent every night of my childhood life almost completely terrorized by my mother, listening to her and my Dad argue. She abused me verbally and physically for many years until I was finally old enough and big enough to stand up and defend myself. (So did my Dad.) At school I was bullied incessantly so I was a kid living on the edge every single moment. It never stopped. I never got addicted, dumb luck there, but I can still understand why Williams finally just couldn't take it anymore.

He was clinically depressed for most of his life. His brain was literally wired to be suicidal. He was fighting a very real battle against that tendency with everything in him for YEARS. He also became addicted to chemicals both clinical and recreational which certainly did not help. He was probably just barely hanging on probably most of the time. Now go and add in a new thing, a very scary major illness that had the potential to be devastating. I don't have to ask why he finally gave up. I've been there, gotten that diagnosis on top of everything else. There's only so much sh- any person can take and when you've been living like that all your life that "one more thing" it can finally break you.

Robin Williams was the antitheses of the word coward. He very bravely fought a very hard battle for most of his life, endured a mental hell that many of us could not, fought, until at last he could fight no more. He did it with grace, humor and amazing kindness considering. He does not deserve anyone's condemnation. If I could I'd hug him and I'd give him a darned medal just for managing that long. I will miss his presence upon this earth, and feel terrible for his loved ones, but condemn him for finally losing his battle when he fought so hard, for so long? Nope.
And all I can say is you have no idea what my life has been like because I refuse to display it in public. Nevertheless I will say I have dealt with all the issues you mention and stand by my statements.
08-17-2014, 01:30 PM - 1 Like   #49
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Tom, you're an intelligent guy, and I don't think you have any malice here (although old Rupert, may not be your favorite poster?) but surely you can recognize that we are not all alike and almost every brain on earth is wired a little differently.
What you are saying may indeed apply to you personally, and if you were to off yourself, we would know that...according to your own analysis, it would be a cowardly act. However, that does not necessarily apply to others. I have a fear of heights (with damn good reason!) and it could make me appear cowardly in the right/wrong circumstances. I'm almost 70...I've been called a lot of things but never a coward.....not to my face or behind my back without consequences. I just think your choice of words does not apply in circumstances of deep clinical depression. It does apply when a pervert that guns down innocent victims then blows himself away when cornered to avoid facing his horrific acts.

I urge you to do some research, read more material from those that have or do suffer this debilitating disease, and how the effects twist the rational mind.

Here is a starter, but the internet is full of meaningful information regarding depression. What you think doesn't matter much here one way or another, but there may come a time when being well informed might make a difference in the life of someone close to you......or even to you. There are no guarantees in this life, no one is immune to disaster no matter how much tolerance they may have, or how much inner strength or courage they have today. I doubt any of those brave Soldiers ever though they were weak or suicide prone....and they weren't. They weren't cowards either.

For A Comic Like Robin Williams, Depression Can Wait 2 Steps Offstage : NPR

You aren't a mean guy, or vindictive toward the dead , just try to look at it in a different light..... one of almost total darkness and void of hope. We are all in the same boat, and none of us are unsinkable.

Best Regards!

08-17-2014, 01:53 PM   #50
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Nicely put, Jim. Those sentiments closely resemble mine, I just wasn't able to come up with as eloquent a way to express them.
Tom, I'm sorry, but this issue just isn't black and white. Each case has it's own unique shade of grey.
08-17-2014, 02:50 PM - 1 Like   #51
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Regardless of what anyone thinks about it, he went out on his terms.
08-17-2014, 03:25 PM - 1 Like   #52
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I often have regrets that I had to get old and mostly worn out to obtain a little wisdom regarding the observation of my own attitudes in relation to those of others. I am constantly surprised at how much difference exists between my views and those of Mrs Rupert....and likewise how much alike we see things in so many ways. It was always this way, I just failed to see it.

Perhaps it is that when you get older you have weathered so many storms that you have a strong feel for your own vulnerability. When you see others in distress, you have likely been there too, or to someone close that has. I can't say my thinking is always right..or wrong...but I can say that I take a softer look than I did even a few short years ago at many situations where I once had opposing dogmatic views. We do mellow with age.....even if it is only admitted to ourselves. There is a ton of pain in this world, everyone gets a dose of it sooner or later. I'm not too good at comforting others...but I wish I was.
No harm done here in this thread by discussing this, we all need to examine our own thoughts more often than we do. Some, like me, will all too often find that we have been wrong more than we realized.

Regards

08-31-2014, 10:23 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Regardless of what anyone thinks about it, he went out on his terms.
I can imagine him doing a skit where he interviews people about his death. Baby boomer or Gen X, Y or Z'er says "Dude, I dug your exit." Williams just nods and says "Thank you" is a very quiet voice.
08-31-2014, 11:19 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I often have regrets that I had to get old and mostly worn out to obtain a little wisdom regarding the observation of my own attitudes in relation to those of others.
Many years ago, in the hose of the parents of an old friend of mine was one of those little plaques with a saying on it. The friend's father was Italian, and his mother German, they met in the US during the exodus from Europe when the Nazis were storming through with their crusade of hate. My friend's father had passed away before I knew him, but his presence was everywhere in the home.

The plaque was written in German, something my friend's mother had brought with her from her homeland.

Translated it said, "We get too soon old, and too late smart!"

Your comment here reminded me of that quote. I think of it now and then as I get older, and have a moment to reflect upon my life thus far. If I had a chance to go back and take a second run at it, there are many things I would do and say differently, or so I think anyway.

At least when I look back like this it helps me to approach each new day a bit differently than I have in days gone by. For most of us it is things like this that make us better people as we grow older, and wiser.

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