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**Marc Langille** · 01-30-2007, 10:16 AM

Glad to know you'll be easier to find if I have a question... LOL...

I've gone less and less to DPR simply because it's blazing by a little too fast as of late, but I've been pretty busy too.

Either way, your talent and insight from a working professional's perspective is welcome!

Cheers,
Marc

trog100 · 01-30-2007, 10:17 AM

"I am certainly not a plant"

no i dont think u are but a few "converted" professionals with some super pictures to go with them popping up in busy forums would certainly make a good marketing tool.. he he he

my second thoughts.. is the guy for real.. but i think without doubt u are..

i have no problems with your approach or phils inevitable and expected reaction to it..

best of luck..

trog

JJJPhoto · 01-30-2007, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by jfdavis58

But this cause and effect are not really uncommon and certainly not new. I own a house and some property on which I have some flowerbeds. You're welcome to come and visit. But you are not allowed to put your feet on the furniture or wee-wee in the flowerbeds. And if you break these rules you must go home.

I hear you ... but would you tell us to go home if we said that we didn't like the flowers in your flowerbed and suggested a different type of flower?

I've had clients who sometimes criticize my work but I don't refuse to do business with them ... as long as they are respectful and aren't just "wee-weeing in my flowerbed."

trog100 · 01-30-2007, 11:45 AM

phils entire business is based on his credibility.. his position isnt an easy one.. he can lose this credibility in several ways.. too many folks publicly saying (righly or wrongly) he dont know one flower from another dosnt do his reputation as a gardener any good..

when they use his own forums as their voice he has a neat way of shutting them up..

excuse me sir .. i dont dont like your flower bed.. can i borrow your PA system to announce my views to the world.. might be a better analogy.. he he he

i think p-ss off would be a reasonable reply..

trog

Last edited by trog100; 01-30-2007 at 11:57 AM.

Ivan Glisin · 01-30-2007, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Falcons

This is not the case he is a web site designer who runs a business testing photographic equipment based on technical aspects of which he alone decides the benchmarks and parameters.

It is unfortunate that the photographic community has given him such credibility.

Precisely! In some of his tests he is clearly comparing apples and oranges or even worse testing things that do not have anything to do with cameras. I have spent almost 3 years doing research related to CCD applications in astronomy and serious statistical analysis and modeling was necessary to get anything useful in order to model CCD/camera behavior and build required software. His tests are not even close to what is really required to standardize experiments and properly analyze data.

Take for example his hand-held shake reduction test: would results be the same after having two strong coffees on an empty stomach compared to having an orange juice after a healthy meal? I doubt. Or, is particular camera's AS/SR not so good or Phil have had a drink or two too much the day before doing the test??? And so on...

-= IVAN =-

ericc · 01-30-2007, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by i.glisin

Take for example his hand-held shake reduction test: would results be the same after having two strong coffees on an empty stomach compared to having an orange juice after a healthy meal? I doubt. Or, is particular camera's AS/SR not so good or Phil have had a drink or two too much the day before doing the test??? And so on...

I'm sure he tested the AS/SR using the most scientific and repeatable appartus--Janneman's lawn mower.

trog100 · 01-30-2007, 12:54 PM

the guy is still in a no-win scenario however perfect he is.. each particular bunch of fanatics love him when he puts their own idol at the top of the list and go for his throat when he dosnt..

and ironically enough thru his own forum system he actually provides the means for them to do so..

hard to have a foot in so many camps and still keep your b-lls..

ever increasing censorship.. bannings and thread deletes are just part of trying to keep in charge of such a crazy situtation..

trog

**jfdavis58** · 01-30-2007, 01:02 PM

Working on a few; I'll get back to you..

**jfdavis58** · 01-30-2007, 01:09 PM

No but looking and commenting are decidedly different from the other act.

There are at least two things here that break Phil's rules: advertising for a commercial entity; bumping a dead horse topic back into prominence for the express purpose of stirring the pot.

These are generally taboo on any forum.

One could read into the post a certain harsh, even disrespectful critique of Phil that meanders over the line of defamation by calling into question his honesty and professionalism.

I'm sure there are other things that got under Phil's skin as well--but I've made my point.

**jfdavis58** · 01-30-2007, 01:31 PM

From Trog "phils entire business is based on his credibility".

No, I don't think so. It's based on catering to two groups of people: advertisers and users. Get a huge group of users together, flash a few discrete ads in with the users desired content, generate revenue from the advertisers that pays the site costs and his salary.

I have never understood why people are so eager to follow some internet reviewer with a flair with the pen, when all around them are folks who use the device every day, in every imaginable way. Phil is an expert with the review, with his web site. But I doubt that he is as fanatical about using his camera as the least fanatical person on his user list.

I trust someones advice when I see others successfully using it or when I have been success using it in the past. If I were inclined to build a web forum I might seek Phil's advice-but buying or using a camera....

I find the whole idea of internet reviews wildly amusing. Most are simple regurgitations of facts found on product spec sheets with a few glib comments and some mention of problems found by others doing similar reviews. Wow, that's original. As for testing--that's a trip down hysterical laughter lane. Even if the testers know what they are testing, do the readers understand the results?

Yes, I stay away from DPR except for some small lurking and yes this behavior's root cause is Phil's K10D review. But not the review itself. Rather, that so many users have found so little useful to add to the discussion, so loudly it hurts my eyes for so long it's absurd.

**jamesk8752** · 01-30-2007, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by benjikan

You know... I will try NOT to loose my temper here. Let may just say this. Mr.Askey, go to an Ad Agency and try GETTING A JOB with YOUR portfolio...Come and compete with me on my TURF and let the real world judge who merits the job...

Some people teach and some people do. I like to do both...

I AM Pissed............Whew........OK..........OK.........I feel better now.

Sorry for the diatribe!

Ben
Olaphoto.com : zoom sur Benjamin Kanarek

Ben, your banning on DPR will probably only be temporary. You should try to post there again in a week or two to see if the ban is still in place. I agree that Phil Akey is arbitrary and somewhat childish in his use of banning, but it's his sandbox...

I would not blame you if you decided not to participate in the DPR forums any more after you are reinstated, but you have so much to share with us that it would be a pity not to have your input in the Pentax SLR forum there as well as here in this forum. Just stay away from the hostile natives in the Canikon forums!

In the mean time, and hopefully for the long term as well, we will welcome you here!

Regards, Jim

benjikan · 01-30-2007, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by jamesk8752

Ben, your banning on DPR will probably only be temporary. You should try to post there again in a week or two to see if the ban is still in place. I agree that Phil Akey is arbitrary and somewhat childish in his use of banning, but it's his sandbox...

I would not blame you if you decided not to participate in the DPR forums any more after you are reinstated, but you have so much to share with us that it would be a pity not to have your input in the Pentax SLR forum there as well as here in this forum. Just stay away from the hostile natives in the Canikon forums!

In the mean time, and hopefully for the long term as well, we will welcome you here!

Regards, Jim

That really is ironic...I still have all of my Canon gear...That is 3 bodies and seven lenses..

joele · 01-30-2007, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by trog100

phils entire business is based on his credibility.. his position isnt an easy one.. he can lose this credibility in several ways..

He lost in long ago for me, actually most people at my work some prosumer some DSLR users, none of which participate in the forums like us (though they read a bit here and there I guess), have still lost all confidence in Phil..

ANYWAY to the OP..

Welcome Benjikan, I'm sorry to say I have no idea what the baning at DPR was about I don't even bother reading there anymore (self imposed ban).. But this forum is plenty active of late, I'm sure you can settle in here...

**Mallee Boy** · 01-30-2007, 03:33 PM

G'Day Benjikan,
Hope you stay around, you have a lot to offer.

As for the other place, ignore it, 'they' have done what they have for reasons best known to themselves

... and the sun still came up this morning

so welcome to Pentax Forums and may your stay be long and mutually beneficial.

Grant

carpents · 01-30-2007, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by benjikan

That really is ironic...I still have all of my Canon gear...That is 3 bodies and seven lenses..

You only have 7 lenses?

Rank amateur.

01-30-2007, 10:16 AM	#46
Marc Langille Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Arkansas, USA Posts: 4,710	that's definitely a mixed bag... Glad to know you'll be easier to find if I have a question... LOL... I've gone less and less to DPR simply because it's blazing by a little too fast as of late, but I've been pretty busy too. Either way, your talent and insight from a working professional's perspective is welcome! Cheers, Marc

01-30-2007, 12:22 PM	#50
Ivan Glisin Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgrade Posts: 656	Well said! Originally posted by Falcons This is not the case he is a web site designer who runs a business testing photographic equipment based on technical aspects of which he alone decides the benchmarks and parameters. It is unfortunate that the photographic community has given him such credibility. Precisely! In some of his tests he is clearly comparing apples and oranges or even worse testing things that do not have anything to do with cameras. I have spent almost 3 years doing research related to CCD applications in astronomy and serious statistical analysis and modeling was necessary to get anything useful in order to model CCD/camera behavior and build required software. His tests are not even close to what is really required to standardize experiments and properly analyze data. Take for example his hand-held shake reduction test: would results be the same after having two strong coffees on an empty stomach compared to having an orange juice after a healthy meal? I doubt. Or, is particular camera's AS/SR not so good or Phil have had a drink or two too much the day before doing the test??? And so on... -= IVAN =-

01-30-2007, 02:39 PM	#57
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308 Original Poster	Originally posted by jamesk8752 Ben, your banning on DPR will probably only be temporary. You should try to post there again in a week or two to see if the ban is still in place. I agree that Phil Akey is arbitrary and somewhat childish in his use of banning, but it's his sandbox... I would not blame you if you decided not to participate in the DPR forums any more after you are reinstated, but you have so much to share with us that it would be a pity not to have your input in the Pentax SLR forum there as well as here in this forum. Just stay away from the hostile natives in the Canikon forums! In the mean time, and hopefully for the long term as well, we will welcome you here! Regards, Jim That really is ironic...I still have all of my Canon gear...That is 3 bodies and seven lenses.. Last edited by benjikan; 02-12-2007 at 01:06 PM.

01-30-2007, 03:33 PM	#59
Mallee Boy Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,904	Let It Be G'Day Benjikan, Hope you stay around, you have a lot to offer. As for the other place, ignore it, 'they' have done what they have for reasons best known to themselves ... and the sun still came up this morning so welcome to Pentax Forums and may your stay be long and mutually beneficial. Grant

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01-30-2007, 10:17 AM	#47
trog100 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: UK Posts: 642	"I am certainly not a plant" no i dont think u are but a few "converted" professionals with some super pictures to go with them popping up in busy forums would certainly make a good marketing tool.. he he he my second thoughts.. is the guy for real.. but i think without doubt u are.. i have no problems with your approach or phils inevitable and expected reaction to it.. best of luck.. trog

01-30-2007, 10:43 AM	#48
JJJPhoto Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 419	Originally posted by jfdavis58 But this cause and effect are not really uncommon and certainly not new. I own a house and some property on which I have some flowerbeds. You're welcome to come and visit. But you are not allowed to put your feet on the furniture or wee-wee in the flowerbeds. And if you break these rules you must go home. I hear you ... but would you tell us to go home if we said that we didn't like the flowers in your flowerbed and suggested a different type of flower? I've had clients who sometimes criticize my work but I don't refuse to do business with them ... as long as they are respectful and aren't just "wee-weeing in my flowerbed."

01-30-2007, 11:45 AM	#49
trog100 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: UK Posts: 642	phils entire business is based on his credibility.. his position isnt an easy one.. he can lose this credibility in several ways.. too many folks publicly saying (righly or wrongly) he dont know one flower from another dosnt do his reputation as a gardener any good.. when they use his own forums as their voice he has a neat way of shutting them up.. excuse me sir .. i dont dont like your flower bed.. can i borrow your PA system to announce my views to the world.. might be a better analogy.. he he he i think p-ss off would be a reasonable reply.. trog Last edited by trog100; 01-30-2007 at 11:57 AM.

01-30-2007, 12:42 PM	#51
ericc Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Western Oklahoma Posts: 412	Originally posted by i.glisin Take for example his hand-held shake reduction test: would results be the same after having two strong coffees on an empty stomach compared to having an orange juice after a healthy meal? I doubt. Or, is particular camera's AS/SR not so good or Phil have had a drink or two too much the day before doing the test??? And so on... I'm sure he tested the AS/SR using the most scientific and repeatable appartus--Janneman's lawn mower.

01-30-2007, 12:54 PM	#52
trog100 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: UK Posts: 642	the guy is still in a no-win scenario however perfect he is.. each particular bunch of fanatics love him when he puts their own idol at the top of the list and go for his throat when he dosnt.. and ironically enough thru his own forum system he actually provides the means for them to do so.. hard to have a foot in so many camps and still keep your b-lls.. ever increasing censorship.. bannings and thread deletes are just part of trying to keep in charge of such a crazy situtation.. trog

01-30-2007, 01:02 PM	#53
jfdavis58 Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 13 S 0357397-3884316 Photos: Gallery Posts: 887	Working on a few; I'll get back to you..

01-30-2007, 01:09 PM	#54
jfdavis58 Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 13 S 0357397-3884316 Photos: Gallery Posts: 887	No but looking and commenting are decidedly different from the other act. There are at least two things here that break Phil's rules: advertising for a commercial entity; bumping a dead horse topic back into prominence for the express purpose of stirring the pot. These are generally taboo on any forum. One could read into the post a certain harsh, even disrespectful critique of Phil that meanders over the line of defamation by calling into question his honesty and professionalism. I'm sure there are other things that got under Phil's skin as well--but I've made my point.

01-30-2007, 01:31 PM	#55
jfdavis58 Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 13 S 0357397-3884316 Photos: Gallery Posts: 887	From Trog "phils entire business is based on his credibility". No, I don't think so. It's based on catering to two groups of people: advertisers and users. Get a huge group of users together, flash a few discrete ads in with the users desired content, generate revenue from the advertisers that pays the site costs and his salary. I have never understood why people are so eager to follow some internet reviewer with a flair with the pen, when all around them are folks who use the device every day, in every imaginable way. Phil is an expert with the review, with his web site. But I doubt that he is as fanatical about using his camera as the least fanatical person on his user list. I trust someones advice when I see others successfully using it or when I have been success using it in the past. If I were inclined to build a web forum I might seek Phil's advice-but buying or using a camera.... I find the whole idea of internet reviews wildly amusing. Most are simple regurgitations of facts found on product spec sheets with a few glib comments and some mention of problems found by others doing similar reviews. Wow, that's original. As for testing--that's a trip down hysterical laughter lane. Even if the testers know what they are testing, do the readers understand the results? Yes, I stay away from DPR except for some small lurking and yes this behavior's root cause is Phil's K10D review. But not the review itself. Rather, that so many users have found so little useful to add to the discussion, so loudly it hurts my eyes for so long it's absurd.

01-30-2007, 02:19 PM	#56
jamesk8752 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Suburban Detroit, MI, USA Posts: 238	Originally posted by benjikan You know... I will try NOT to loose my temper here. Let may just say this. Mr.Askey, go to an Ad Agency and try GETTING A JOB with YOUR portfolio...Come and compete with me on my TURF and let the real world judge who merits the job... Some people teach and some people do. I like to do both... I AM Pissed............Whew........OK..........OK.........I feel better now. Sorry for the diatribe! Ben Olaphoto.com : zoom sur Benjamin Kanarek Ben, your banning on DPR will probably only be temporary. You should try to post there again in a week or two to see if the ban is still in place. I agree that Phil Akey is arbitrary and somewhat childish in his use of banning, but it's his sandbox... I would not blame you if you decided not to participate in the DPR forums any more after you are reinstated, but you have so much to share with us that it would be a pity not to have your input in the Pentax SLR forum there as well as here in this forum. Just stay away from the hostile natives in the Canikon forums! In the mean time, and hopefully for the long term as well, we will welcome you here! Regards, Jim

01-30-2007, 02:56 PM	#58
joele Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,308	Originally posted by trog100 phils entire business is based on his credibility.. his position isnt an easy one.. he can lose this credibility in several ways.. He lost in long ago for me, actually most people at my work some prosumer some DSLR users, none of which participate in the forums like us (though they read a bit here and there I guess), have still lost all confidence in Phil.. ANYWAY to the OP.. Welcome Benjikan, I'm sorry to say I have no idea what the baning at DPR was about I don't even bother reading there anymore (self imposed ban).. But this forum is plenty active of late, I'm sure you can settle in here...

01-30-2007, 03:40 PM	#60
carpents Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Chester, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,420	Originally posted by benjikan That really is ironic...I still have all of my Canon gear...That is 3 bodies and seven lenses.. You only have 7 lenses? Rank amateur.

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