[benjikan]

I will be answering questions re: Breaking in to Fashion and Advertising Phtography.

Please feel free to ask questions pertaining to this subject...

Ben

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Last edited by benjikan; 01-30-2007 at 07:12 AM.

[noser]

This sounds like a question better asked over a cold drink on a warm day, but I am curious; how do you know when you're ready to even consider this question? Or put another way, how much of it is good planning and business sense, and how much is being such a great photographer that clients beat a path to your door?

I've toyed with what my 'next job' should be... I'm an IT consultant now; it pays well but is kinda high on the soul-sucking scale, if you follow... Do you think that it's enough to be technically good? How much artistic expression is involved ?

So many questions!

Oh, and BTW, welcome to the forum. Nice to have a pro around!

[benjikan]

This sounds like a question better asked over a cold drink on a warm day, but I am curious; how do you know when you're ready to even consider this question? Or put another way, how much of it is good planning and business sense, and how much is being such a great photographer that clients beat a path to your door?

I've toyed with what my 'next job' should be... I'm an IT consultant now; it pays well but is kinda high on the soul-sucking scale, if you follow... Do you think that it's enough to be technically good? How much artistic expression is involved ?

So many questions!

Oh, and BTW, welcome to the forum. Nice to have a pro around!

Hello and thanks for the questions..

First of all, from my vantage point and experience, technical savvy will have to be a foregone conclusion, unless you are Karl Lagerfeld and have the money to pay a lighting person and a tech support person to work with you on the shoots. There are many photographers that made it to the top of the heap with literally no technical expertise. They had a flare for putting things together in a way that was novel and unique. I will not name some of these photographers in fear of being sued for slander. None the less, I will say that if you can "SEE" in a manner that is different to the norm and don't get too bogged down in technique, that is a good start. If there is a technical challenge based on a theme that you wish to explore and do not know how to accomplish it, you can research how it might be done.

My métier is a very complex and convoluted road of diplomacy, creativity, networking, nepotism and intestinal fortitude. It isn't the kind of career you start by saying, what gear will I need and how much will I need to invest financially to succeed. It is an art form, that necessitates a passion and a longing to express ones self through story telling. Great Fashion/Beauty/Still Life images are not a cataloguing of products. It is the creation of an image to set a precedent in the social fabric. Very much like music and film.

I will call the above paragraphs "The Biz" Part 1

[noser]

Thanks for the reply!

...the creation of an image to set a precedent in the social fabric.

Ok, interesting statement!

How much discussion do you have regarding the customers brand - who they are - how they want to be seen - prior to the shoot? Or are they generally familiar enough with you that this is not a major concern, and they know you won't stray from a brand image, but somehow build something new with respect to the old... not editorialize counter to their public image, etc... is this something that at first could take the form of samples or proofs? Do you have to re-shoot if you have broken some rule or expectation? Is that ever written into the contract? I have lots of questions on value and charging - after all, one stunning image could re-make, even rescue a brand or company. How do you price that? (Or is that chapter 3? )

And if you are shooting for a models portfolio, is that ever a reciprocal deal for the photo? ie you get the model for free, the model gets your shots for free? At least for the right to use it in the portfolio; I'm thinking in the case of two people starting out... (Ah,, could be chapter 4...)

Thanks again,
N

p.s. I've seen that girl before. Now it'll drive me nuts....

[benjikan]

Thanks for the reply!



Ok, interesting statement!

How much discussion do you have regarding the customers brand - who they are - how they want to be seen - prior to the shoot? Or are they generally familiar enough with you that this is not a major concern, and they know you won't stray from a brand image, but somehow build something new with respect to the old... not editorialize counter to their public image, etc... is this something that at first could take the form of samples or proofs? Do you have to re-shoot if you have broken some rule or expectation? Is that ever written into the contract? I have lots of questions on value and charging - after all, one stunning image could re-make, even rescue a brand or company. How do you price that? (Or is that chapter 3? )

And if you are shooting for a models portfolio, is that ever a reciprocal deal for the photo? ie you get the model for free, the model gets your shots for free? At least for the right to use it in the portfolio; I'm thinking in the case of two people starting out... (Ah,, could be chapter 4...)

Thanks again,
N

p.s. I've seen that girl before. Now it'll drive me nuts....

I will first address the last question. I'm afraid I don't do model portfolios. I stopped doing that about 20 years ago. That is called testing and is usually done by photographers needing to build up their portfolio. If I do a planned "Personal Work" for a magazine submission which has always been published, I will get a clothing stylist, hair & make-up artist and assistant. There will be a theme established before the shoot that will set the atmosphere and give the stylist keys to what she-he will choose for the specific theme. Accessories will follow. Hair and Make-Up will be part of the briefing as well. Every element of the shoot must be strong. If one of the elements are weak, the whole shoot could fall apart.

As to Advertising. Here is the standard universal process. A client i.e. the Ad Agency or the Client directly if they have an in house AD will have their Art Buyer call Photographers Agents and brief them about what it is they are after. Art Buyers are responsible for finding all of the talent to produce the shoot. They have already been briefed by the Art Director who was briefed by the Creative Director who was at the briefing with the account executive and the Client...WHEW...OK...?

The Art Buyer knows all of the photo agents and knows which talent could be appropriate for a given assignment. The AB (Art Buyer) has been briefed by the production assistant who was briefed by accounting as to what the budget is. The AB is also responsible to negotiate the rates and royalties of the photographer and model as well of all of the support for the production. She will contact all of the Model Agencies and do the same with them.

I will meet with the AB and AD and perhaps the CD to be briefed by the agency. This briefing consists of a visual Mock Up and verbal explanation of the final goal of the campaign. Composites of the models, hair and make-up artists will be presented and books of potential clothing or accessory stylists as well. Studio's or Locations will be rented as well as any equipment that is not a part of the included equipment that comes with the studio's daily rate.

All this has been done of course when the photographers estimate has been approved by the AB...

Once all of the elements have been approved...Off we go to have our day to play and take pictures...The nice part is that 90 days later + 10 we get paid minus 25 percent to the agent...et voila.

A bit short, but I'm not a very patient story teller.

[Marc Langille]

Something I've wanted to consider for a little while now....

As you've already indicated in your first reply, it's everything beyond that. I know my heart is there: it's never a problem to get up at 4AM when I could be sleeping in, etc. However, I am quite certain that wildlife, macro and nature photos probably won't pay the bills, although I may do a few weddings and portraiture to pay some equipment costs.

I believe I am a capable person technically, and yet I feel I am at a loss to progress from the business perspective. I am not networked with anyone. I have a lot of desire/passion for trying new things, taking photos that expand my experience and hopefully my skills continuously...

On the flip side, I have 2 upcoming concurrent displays of my work locally, both unsolicited invites. I doubt they'll pay the costs incurred, but I must start somewhere to get my name out there. Permission has also been given to permanently display a Civil War reenactment photo in a museum.

Am I going about this correctly or...? Reality grounds me: something must reliably pay the bills.

Arrrgh....

[benjikan]

Something I've wanted to consider for a little while now....

As you've already indicated in your first reply, it's everything beyond that. I know my heart is there: it's never a problem to get up at 4AM when I could be sleeping in, etc. However, I am quite certain that wildlife, macro and nature photos probably won't pay the bills, although I may do a few weddings and portraiture to pay some equipment costs.

I believe I am a capable person technically, and yet I feel I am at a loss to progress from the business perspective. I am not networked with anyone. I have a lot of desire/passion for trying new things, taking photos that expand my experience and hopefully my skills continuously...

On the flip side, I have 2 upcoming concurrent displays of my work locally, both unsolicited invites. I doubt they'll pay the costs incurred, but I must start somewhere to get my name out there. Permission has also been given to permanently display a Civil War reenactment photo in a museum.

Am I going about this correctly or...? Reality grounds me: something must reliably pay the bills.

Arrrgh....

Because this is such an important subject and I can hear it is heart felt. I must ask you to be patient and wait till later tomorrow. I couldn't sleep thinking about some stuff and it is 4:23 AM in the morning here in Paris. I must sleep. You deserve a well thought out and considerate insight and perhaps advice if it is appropriate. So I will ask that you go out and get all of the Fashion Magazines you can afford. If you can't just go to a store and start inhaling the media by osmosis. It is how it has to start. You need to learn to speak and read the vocabulary. You need to acquire taste by exposure...We'll speak later.

[benjikan]

This letter was for one induvidual, but would apply to anyone embarking on a commercial photography career in advertising/fashion/still life and beauty...

"The Proximity Factor"...You know Marc, have you ever tried to buy a camembert cheese in Swainsborough, Georgia? Have you ever attempted to purchase a bottle of "Crystal" champagne in Binghamton, New York? Have you ever tried to find a Christian Lacroix "Haute Couture" dress for a photo-shoot in Farmington Indiana? There is no secret why Hollywood is Hollywood, New York is New York, Paris is Paris and London is London. Availability of talent, support, materials and creative grey matter. If I am about to embark on a photo shoot here in Paris, I can call a top model agency for a top model. Call a world class fashion stylist to see the press offices of the top designers to get the "creme de la creme" of the fashion world. Call the leading hair and make-up artist agency to get the most world renowned artists in their field. Hire a world class studio facility to be published in some of the most cutting edge trendy press.
Why? Because New York & Paris feature all of the elements required not to smell of the "Lack of Proximity" provincial product. The reason those working in the major centers look so polished is that they are. Without those elements, there is no way that one can compete on this playing field. Of course that are different leagues where the game is played. I started this game in Toronto where the best one could do was to be published in Flare, Fashion and Chatelaine magazines. After that, if you wish to climb this ladder, one has to make a move. I moved to Los Angeles, which was a very minor step up the ladder. I have lived in New York, Milan and Paris and have worked in London. I have agents in Barcelona, Paris and Berlin. I was represented in NY and will seek representation there again.

Your best bet, would be to study the playing field and emulate, emulate, copy, copy and copy. Until you are in the right place, everything that will be done will smack of the fact that the tools were not available. Time is so important. The collections come out, we shoot them right after the shows in studio or location. But we get them right away and not one year after the fact. The speaks loudly in its own right. Start doing your research. Type in to Google, "Trendy Press Magazines" and see what comes up. Type in Trendy Fashion Magazines as well. See how you feel about...

Attached is one of my first SA Vogue Covers from 1985...Heee Heee...Check out the shoulders and the hat..Oh yeah and she was my ex-girlfriend...Won't go there!

[benjikan]

This letter was for one induvidual, but would apply to anyone embarking on a commercial photography career in advertising/fashion/still life and beauty...

"The Proximity Factor"...You know Marc, have you ever tried to buy a camembert cheese in Swainsborough, Georgia? Have you ever attempted to purchase a bottle of "Crystal" champagne in Binghamton, New York? Have you ever tried to find a Christian Lacroix "Haute Couture" dress for a photo-shoot in Farmington Indiana? There is no secret why Hollywood is Hollywood, New York is New York, Paris is Paris and London is London. Availability of talent, support, materials and creative grey matter. If I am about to embark on a photo shoot here in Paris, I can call a top model agency for a top model. Call a world class fashion stylist to see the press offices of the top designers to get the "creme de la creme" of the fashion world. Call the leading hair and make-up artist agency to get the most world renowned artists in their field. Hire a world class studio facility to be published in some of the most cutting edge trendy press.
Why? Because New York & Paris feature all of the elements required not to smell of the "Lack of Proximity" provincial product. The reason those working in the major centers look so polished is that they are. Without those elements, there is no way that one can compete on this playing field. Of course that are different leagues where the game is played. I started this game in Toronto where the best one could do was to be published in Flare, Fashion and Chatelaine magazines. After that, if you wish to climb this ladder, one has to make a move. I moved to Los Angeles, which was a very minor step up the ladder. I have lived in New York, Milan and Paris and have worked in London. I have agents in Barcelona, Paris and Berlin. I was represented in NY and will seek representation there again.

Your best bet, would be to study the playing field and emulate, emulate, copy, copy and copy. Until you are in the right place, everything that will be done will smack of the fact that the tools were not available. Time is so important. The collections come out, we shoot them right after the shows in studio or location. But we get them right away and not one year after the fact. The speaks loudly in its own right. Start doing your research. Type in to Google, "Trendy Press Magazines" and see what comes up. Type in Trendy Fashion Magazines as well. See how you feel about...

Attached is one of my first SA Vogue Covers from 1985...Heee Heee...Check out the shoulders and the hat..Oh yeah and she was my ex-girlfriend...Won't go there!

The models name was Catherin Benoit...

[rfortson]

<snip>
... have you ever tried to buy a camembert cheese in Swainsborough, Georgia?
<snip>

Wow, never expected to read "Swainsboro" in a thread about fashion photography.

[benjikan]

Wow, never expected to read "Swainsboro" in a thread about fashion photography.

I actually lived there when I was 19 for one summer and worked at a Radio Station called WBRO Radio as a DJ, as they liked my non-accent...