[Shibby3.8]

American beer has gotten better, maybe cause so many of you came north to try some good stuff!!

I agree with Dave, the technology is most likely there hidden away to make much more fuel efficient engines and neither the oil companies or the car companies want to build those machines. Ethanol is not the answer. There's not enough surface area on the plant to grow the cellulose needed to fuel the volumes we will need and food prices will be so high that shortages of everything will skyrocket.

Electrical engines powered by Nuclear/wind/solar is one possible answer. Another would be to finally get hydrogen working. But the oil lobby won't allow that to happen until there are serious changes at the top elected levels.

how do you make H2? reform natural gas using large amounts of electricity. still a net loss in energy. Plus the transportation of the stuff isn't the easiest thing to do.

[woof]

I received an e-mail a few minutes ago from a friend in DC. I had asked him if people stop buying gas on certain days would have an effect on the oil companies.

It's kind of funny. Your message is a hybrid of two basic Internet schemes.

1. Don't buy gas on certain days; and
2. Boycott certain oil companies.

I think the following answers these fairly well.

snopes.com: Gas Out

woof!

[Workingdog]

And fuel the electric plants you plug it into with . . . what?
Coal - nope
Oil - nope
Natural Gas - well . . .maybe, but everybody is doing that and supplies are tight there, too.
Nuclear - Yep!!! - but that'll never happen, except in France of all places.

You're 100% right, there are no free rides. You don't get anything for nothing.
I'm also with you on the nukes and probably in the minority. Technology has come a long way since TMI. But the solution isn't just one thing. It's nuclear+hydro+wind+tidal+solar+geothermal, etc. If all were developed to their potential we'd go a long way towards getting off the oil habit.

[Gooshin]

Oops! I am a professional investment strategist and advisor, and have been for thirty years - and I'm still studying evenings to make myself an even better advisor - but I agree with you that market inputs and popular opinion have distorted the meaning of "investment" to an unrecognizable form.

Please note I use the term "professional" with due consideration - just as you would distinguish a professional photographer from a punter with a Canon.

"The market" is just people like you and me - the combined inputs and decisions of all market participants at any point in time - whether we invest directly or through an intermediary, OUR decisions make markets, including the oil market. If the market is sinister it is because "we" are sinister, or at least trying to achieve the wrong thing in the market.

<rant> If we could change something - if we were King - we would want to change the media, who paint a false picture of the opportunity, foster false hopes and incorrect assumptions, and turn the whole thing into a legal betting parlor. </rant>

I'm not unsypathetic to your position. I just hope I am not painted with the same brush as the "other" guys (probably a hopeless hope).

[EDIT] P.S. Before we get all upset and say something to get Adam mad at us, why don't we go somewhere else and talk about pixels or something

my turn around point at a time when i publicly questioned my professor as to the meaning of modern day marketplace, and after many efforts he told me that i should "see him after class but for now lets continue on with the lesson"

even after i had a private chat with him for an hour he was no able enlighten me.

some basics that i understand firmly:

the stock/securities market is a place where new companies go to raise capital.

whoever owns shares to a company may or may not have some sort of ownership rights, voting, or mayb even apply for the board of directors

ie, a person that wishes to mroe or less partake in the operation of the company.

the secondary market is for people that either grow bored, scared, or need their money back sell their shares to other people willing or wanting to buy.

fast forward to today, with companies havign millions of shares, traded daily, blah blah blah

people/investors buy and sell these things on a daily basis for no other reason than speculation, people buy into this company or that company but they dotn care, they buy on rumors, insider information, dumb hunches or stupid suggestions.

people dont CARE about the companies into which they buy, customers with thousands of dollars who hire a broker have no clue what their broker is doing, so long as he is making the cash

i can buy 100 shares of microsoft tommorow... but its worthless, i cant do anything with those shares, the only reason i bought them is in hopes of getting more money out of nothing, and likewise the person selling me these shares thinks that they wont get him anymore money, all the while no one gave two bottle caps about what microsoft is actualy doing!


and this leads to our original point about OIL, people buy this shit only because it has prospects for making money for doing nothing.


now i'm in no way frustrated with the actual brokers (such as yourself)< the JOB itself is very tedious and requires much knowledge and skills, its your CUSTOMERS that i hate, because when they come to you they only care about the bottom line, and you unfortunely have to do whatever is in your power to satisfy them otherwise you are left out on the street.



i dotn think Adam will kick us out

honestly... this forum needs more in depth discussion about stuff other than "which lens is better" and "my K20D took a funny photo"

while i understand that this site is about photography i think its safe to say that everyone here is more or less and intellectual person... so why not induldge ourselves in little wordly debates.

[rparmar]

Lots of good stuff in the US of A, though I find the best is available only in one or two counties... move too far and you have to find something else to drink. Had a few great brews in Wisconsin somewhere and in the middle of the desert in Utah. You just never know. However the vast majority of the stuff is pisswater... much like the aforementioned Fosters.

There is no doubt the German beers, made with only 3 or 4 ingredients, are amazing. The Belgians certainly have their strange Trappist fare... some beers taste more like aperitif. Great for a treat. But my fave beer ever in the world is actually Canadian, and I don't think I'm just being nostalgic. Go to Hamilton Ontario and get Dragon's Breath. Hops to tear your throat off. Cannot stop drinking it. Well, actually I can since I'm thousands of km away. It's the FA31 of beers.

That's the best place to drink in Ontario. Next two are the Granite in Toronto (also Halifax) and C'est What in TO. Also somewhere in Ottawa with a cat, but I forget the name.

Strangely there is a good beer here in Ireland (home of stouts). After six years I have found Galway Hooker. It's available at precisely one pub here in town. That's one out of something like a thousand.

Drink beer not gas!

[KrisK10D]

as if America makes better beer...

Europe is where its at.

pfffffffft... says a guy who I doubt has ever swilled an Aussie beer

Don't go auy a Fosters either. It's the only beer exported from Aus for a reason

Perhaps those of us who can should take the approach of the Amish and revert to using a horse and buggy to get around. As with the farmer's mules, I'm sure it's cheaper to feed a horse than to put gas into a car.

If you want to avoid the buggy, then you could always ride the horse yourself.

Heather

teehee

It may be cheaper to run a horse but their 'mechanics' will charge an arm and a leg

high oil prices are also the result of the capitalistic approach and investing

its all speculation

if you have an extra 100 dollars in your pocket and you go to invest it, what would you invest it into?

answer is simple, oil, why, because thats whats hot

so oil is being bought up, prices go up, more investors jump on the bandwagon, and off we go.

I don't think a hand full of old Arabic men, sitting around a table, deciding whether or not they're going to barrel more oil to sell to 'the west' has anything to do with capitalist investing and speculation.

Speculation and investment may affect the share prices for oil companies but OPEC are the big wheelers when it comes to the $/barrel we have to pay.

Sydney petrol hit $1.60+/liter last week. In US speak thats US$5.82/gallon

[Pentaxtic]

Time to really get the electric car back in vogue.

[Peter Zack]

how do you make H2? reform natural gas using large amounts of electricity. still a net loss in energy. Plus the transportation of the stuff isn't the easiest thing to do.

I guess you haven't been paying attention. Hydrogen is made from WATER!!. The by product is WATER!!. Separate the H in H2O, use it as the fuel and the recombination with Oxygen creates water from the tail pipe. Water is the biggest resource we have and the biggest hurtle will be building de-salination plants to remove the salt and minerals from the ocean.

The real issue, is that governments that get elected on big oil money lobbies have no interest in investing in this technology. if we could fuel everything with Solar/Wind/Nuclear and water, Oil would be worth less than the cost of production.

Paul, I'm curious about your comment "France of all places" in regards to nuclear. The Europeans are far ahead of the rest of the world in many areas. Environmentally they are decades ahead of the USA and even Canada. That they realized Nuclear was the future before we did, is proof that thier system of government is working much better than North America's. In reading all these responses to this thread, the thing I notice is the total lack of direction in Washington. There is absolutely no vision in the White House. George and Dick are only there to make their families rich. I've seen nothing in the past 8 years that has been for the benefit of the people and very little in the years before that as well.

Sorry to say, but with a system that has $200-300 million per person elections, that drag on for 2 years, with a limit to 2 political party's and over 41,000 lobbiests. The US is one of the most un-democratic free countries on the planet. Every politician in the USA is owned by some company or group. There is no other option when it costs so much to win a seat. I know the founding fathers didn't want this to be the system. Clinton has spent $190 million and she won't even get to run for office. I hear Obama has raised almost double what she has and the race hasn't started yet!. Only the rich and the well connected can run for office now. That wasn't the idea in the beginning and shouldn't be that way now.

Until that changes in a revolutionary way, nothing will change in Washington. Not for the environment, the price of food or fuel and a host of other issues. If you ask someone from France about health care, they will tell you how corrupt the American system really is.

Now it's time for me to get flamed....

[ftpaddict]

I walk 14km / day. Whenever I need to get somewhere fast, i just use the subway - electric, n'est pas?

Problem solved.

[KrisK10D]

Never fear, Peter. I will cloak you in my level 84 shield of invulnerability and protect you from the flames

[Gooshin]

pfffffffft... says a guy who I doubt has ever swilled an Aussie beer

Don't go auy a Fosters either. It's the only beer exported from Aus for a reason



teehee

It may be cheaper to run a horse but their 'mechanics' will charge an arm and a leg



I don't think a hand full of old Arabic men, sitting around a table, deciding whether or not they're going to barrel more oil to sell to 'the west' has anything to do with capitalist investing and speculation.

Speculation and investment may affect the share prices for oil companies but OPEC are the big wheelers when it comes to the $/barrel we have to pay.

Sydney petrol hit $1.60+/liter last week. In US speak thats US$5.82/gallon

there is no lack of oil supply....

and its not the arabs that set the prices, its YOU AND ME, the MARKET, that set oil prices. The Arabs (or canadians, or russians or whoever else pumps the oil) then sell for whatever the MARKET price is.

[Peter Zack]

Never fear, Peter. I will cloak you in my level 84 shield of invulnerability and protect you from the flames

Lol. I may need to borrow that if I decide to cross the border. It's just strangely sad to be a close neighbour to the US and see the foolishness that goes on there. Special interest and lobby groups get what they want and the common person (IE middle class and below) has no voice.

[Shibby3.8]

I guess you haven't been paying attention. Hydrogen is made from WATER!!. The by product is WATER!!. Separate the H in H2O, use it as the fuel and the recombination with Oxygen creates water from the tail pipe. Water is the biggest resource we have and the biggest hurtle will be building de-salination plants to remove the salt and minerals from the ocean.

how do you seperate the hydrogen from the water molecule? Electrolysis! Guess how much Hydrogen is actually created from electrolysis? Very, very little. Its an inefficient process that uses huge amounts of electricity (which is wasteful because we're still burning fossil fuels here) for very little returns. Using Natural Gas (CH4, C2H6 etc) as a feedstock is much more economical right now. Just look at the chemical makeup of Natural Gas v. Water, more H atoms per molecule.

Sure water is the best route as its a vast resource, however if we switch to Hydrogen in the near future, water will not be what we are using to produce that hydrogen. Perhaps eventually we will but not now.

[KrisK10D]

there is no lack of oil supply....

and its not the arabs that set the prices, its YOU AND ME, the MARKET, that set oil prices. The Arabs (or canadians, or russians or whoever else pumps the oil) then sell for whatever the MARKET price is.

Sorry Gooshin but the largest contributor to the price of oil is supply. And there's only 1 organisation that controls supply... OPEC.

Lol. I may need to borrow that if I decide to cross the border. It's just strangely sad to be a close neighbour to the US and see the foolishness that goes on there. Special interest and lobby groups get what they want and the common person (IE middle class and below) has no voice.

That's the case in most "Democracies" aint it?

[Gooshin]

Sorry Gooshin but the largest contributor to the price of oil is supply. And there's only 1 organisation that controls supply... OPEC.



That's the case in most "Democracies" aint it?

so who has Canada and the Russians been selling their oil to? OPEC is only 13 countries.

Chart of exports and production of oil by nation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

here is a bigger list