War on photographers

MRRiley · 06-08-2008, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by Damn Brit

Pentax needs to start making something like this; Zenit / Foto Sniper Camera / Cover I have one but I've been frightened to take it out with me but it would be just right to hold a Bigma. I think in the US, a bullet proof vest would also be necessary.

hmmmmmm I sense a DIY project comin' on. I have a foldable stock for a Ruger 1022 that just might work as a camera and Bigma mount....

little laker · 06-08-2008, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Mike Cash

That's one of the things I like about Japan; they go through the anti-terror motions but don't really take things overly serious. I've gotten some rather nice photos by walking right by "KEEP OUT" signs and rent-a-cops like I own the place. Nobody has ever said a word about it.

You probably have more clearance than most of them anyways Mike

I've never had anything said to me here in Canada either. But then again I haven't been anywhere near anything the government or cops would consider as important since 911

Clicker · 06-24-2008, 04:15 PM

It’s finally over … or is it?

...also applies to that other thread about that teenie rent-a-cop.

(read over at ephotozine)

MRRiley · 06-25-2008, 04:35 AM

Read about a photographer who's film was actually SEIZED" by the police in the quintessential photo spot... Coney Island, NY.

Photographer Forced to give up Film on Coney Island.

also it's certainly not over in Florida...

Miami Artist/photog's media card seized and mishandled by unknown motorcycle officer.

The ONLY time they can seize your camera, film or media card is AFTER they ARREST you.

p.s. A site I just found and intend to check out... PhotoPermit.org.

Last edited by MRRiley; 06-25-2008 at 05:45 AM.

KrisK10D · 06-25-2008, 06:47 AM

I fear for all American togs. British as well! This incresing harassement is simply disgusting but then so is the continual spinelessness of photographers who will smile while handing over cameras, cards and film. We don't live in Zimbabwe for gawd sake, we live in free countries with rights and it's about time people started standing up for their rights instead of letting the very authorities who are supposed to protect us get away with this crap every other day.

It makes me cry to think of a mate who's about to go back to Iraq to fight for the very freedoms that are being stripped away from citizens every day. I'm sick of it really! God help the first cop who wants to harass me about taking photos!

patrickt · 06-25-2008, 06:53 AM

"Patrickt... If you think the war of photographers is "hyped", try visiting Washington, DC and shooting photos from a public sidewalk of just about any federal or city building and start your stopwatch. I guarantee it won't be 60 seconds before someone wearing a "security guard" badge is running toward you."

Two friends of mine just returned from visiting their son in Washington, D.C. They're Mixtec Indians from southern Mexico. When they got home they had around 2,000 snapshots that they asked me to help edit. The pictures were taken with a point-and-shoot and a DSLR. They had side trips to New York City and Philadelphia.

Guess what? No one bothered them. Photos of the President's car in a convoy, pictures of all sorts of government buildings, pictures in a food mall, pictures in public parks, pictures on the street, and they didn't have a problem with anyone.

I have seen posts from people who have been contacted repeatedly by police or security people and I know a lot of people who are contacted twice in forty years. What's the variable here? Could it be the photographer?

MRRiley · 06-25-2008, 08:46 AM

patrick...

I'm pleased to hear that your friends were not harrassed. I like to think that their experience is typical of tourists as there are literally gazillions of people shooting all over this city. People are expected to take photos of the president's car if he drives by. People are expected to take photos of obvious buildings like the Capitol, the Lincoln Memorial or even the Treasury. I suspect though that your friends did not get too far off of the regular tourist beaten path.

Regardless of the fact that they were not harrassed, it still doesn't make the harrassment of even one photographer acceptable.

And your thinking there is no problem doesnt mean there isn't one. Freedoms are seldom taken away in one big bite, but instead in little nibbles which are seldom noticed by the victims... until they wake one day and realize that their freedom is a thing of the past!

Last edited by MRRiley; 06-25-2008 at 12:15 PM.

patrickt · 06-25-2008, 05:38 PM

That's true. My thinking there isn't a problem doesn't mean there isn't one. And, some people thinking, and whining endlessly, about a problem doesn't mean there is one.

When I left the U.S., the lose of freedom wasn't coming from the police. And, when I notice people posting about all the times they've been harrassed and mistreated when most people aren't, I have to wonder where the problem lies.

konraDarnok · 06-25-2008, 07:29 PM

In war photography,

I was told, "shoot f/8"

makes sense really -- sorta the maxium light for the maximum DOF . . . while being shot at.

B&W film days of course.

Know nothing of it myself.

MRRiley · 06-26-2008, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by patrickt

That's true. My thinking there isn't a problem doesn't mean there isn't one. And, some people thinking, and whining endlessly, about a problem doesn't mean there is one.

When I left the U.S., the lose of freedom wasn't coming from the police. And, when I notice people posting about all the times they've been harrassed and mistreated when most people aren't, I have to wonder where the problem lies.

Know what... forget it. You believe what you want to believe from third hand accounts and I will believe what I have witnessed and experienced.

NYpHoToGraphEr · 06-30-2008, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by MRRiley

Its not the police who hassle us that I have a problem with (the most anyway)... It's the rent-a-cops that have NO/NADA/ZIP authority off of their properties who constantly come onto public streets and sidewalks to harrass us.

Patrickt... If you think the war of photographers is "hyped", try visiting Washington, DC and shooting photos from a public sidewalk of just about any federal or city building and start your stopwatch. I guarantee it won't be 60 seconds before someone wearing a "security guard" badge is running toward you.

+1

Very Very true...

Security guards don't know anything about ANY law...
It's so annoying.

NYpHoToGraphEr · 06-30-2008, 10:11 PM

I wrote a post in my blog with these articles....

JCSullivan · 07-01-2008, 02:55 AM

Something which Mike said in Post #22 which reminded me of Martin Niemoeller's poem:

First they came for the Communists,
- but I was not a communist so I did not speak out.

Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
- but I was neither, so I did not speak out.

Then they came for the Jews,
- but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.

And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.

The words in this poem are very very dear to me.

06-24-2008, 04:15 PM	#18
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	Just recently... It’s finally over … or is it? ...also applies to that other thread about that teenie rent-a-cop. (read over at ephotozine)

06-25-2008, 04:35 AM	#19
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	It Ain't Over Read about a photographer who's film was actually SEIZED" by the police in the quintessential photo spot... Coney Island, NY. Photographer Forced to give up Film on Coney Island. also it's certainly not over in Florida... Miami Artist/photog's media card seized and mishandled by unknown motorcycle officer. The ONLY time they can seize your camera, film or media card is AFTER they ARREST you. p.s. A site I just found and intend to check out... PhotoPermit.org. Last edited by MRRiley; 06-25-2008 at 05:45 AM.

06-26-2008, 06:37 PM	#25
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by patrickt That's true. My thinking there isn't a problem doesn't mean there isn't one. And, some people thinking, and whining endlessly, about a problem doesn't mean there is one. When I left the U.S., the lose of freedom wasn't coming from the police. And, when I notice people posting about all the times they've been harrassed and mistreated when most people aren't, I have to wonder where the problem lies. Know what... forget it. You believe what you want to believe from third hand accounts and I will believe what I have witnessed and experienced. Last edited by MRRiley; 06-26-2008 at 06:48 PM.

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06-08-2008, 06:37 PM	#16
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by Damn Brit Pentax needs to start making something like this; Zenit / Foto Sniper Camera / Cover I have one but I've been frightened to take it out with me but it would be just right to hold a Bigma. I think in the US, a bullet proof vest would also be necessary. hmmmmmm I sense a DIY project comin' on. I have a foldable stock for a Ruger 1022 that just might work as a camera and Bigma mount....

06-08-2008, 08:07 PM	#17
little laker Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,697	Originally posted by Mike Cash That's one of the things I like about Japan; they go through the anti-terror motions but don't really take things overly serious. I've gotten some rather nice photos by walking right by "KEEP OUT" signs and rent-a-cops like I own the place. Nobody has ever said a word about it. You probably have more clearance than most of them anyways Mike I've never had anything said to me here in Canada either. But then again I haven't been anywhere near anything the government or cops would consider as important since 911

06-25-2008, 06:47 AM	#20
KrisK10D Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,274	I fear for all American togs. British as well! This incresing harassement is simply disgusting but then so is the continual spinelessness of photographers who will smile while handing over cameras, cards and film. We don't live in Zimbabwe for gawd sake, we live in free countries with rights and it's about time people started standing up for their rights instead of letting the very authorities who are supposed to protect us get away with this crap every other day. It makes me cry to think of a mate who's about to go back to Iraq to fight for the very freedoms that are being stripped away from citizens every day. I'm sick of it really! God help the first cop who wants to harass me about taking photos!

06-25-2008, 06:53 AM	#21
patrickt Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oaxaca, Mexico Posts: 247	"Patrickt... If you think the war of photographers is "hyped", try visiting Washington, DC and shooting photos from a public sidewalk of just about any federal or city building and start your stopwatch. I guarantee it won't be 60 seconds before someone wearing a "security guard" badge is running toward you." Two friends of mine just returned from visiting their son in Washington, D.C. They're Mixtec Indians from southern Mexico. When they got home they had around 2,000 snapshots that they asked me to help edit. The pictures were taken with a point-and-shoot and a DSLR. They had side trips to New York City and Philadelphia. Guess what? No one bothered them. Photos of the President's car in a convoy, pictures of all sorts of government buildings, pictures in a food mall, pictures in public parks, pictures on the street, and they didn't have a problem with anyone. I have seen posts from people who have been contacted repeatedly by police or security people and I know a lot of people who are contacted twice in forty years. What's the variable here? Could it be the photographer?

06-25-2008, 08:46 AM	#22
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	patrick... I'm pleased to hear that your friends were not harrassed. I like to think that their experience is typical of tourists as there are literally gazillions of people shooting all over this city. People are expected to take photos of the president's car if he drives by. People are expected to take photos of obvious buildings like the Capitol, the Lincoln Memorial or even the Treasury. I suspect though that your friends did not get too far off of the regular tourist beaten path. Regardless of the fact that they were not harrassed, it still doesn't make the harrassment of even one photographer acceptable. And your thinking there is no problem doesnt mean there isn't one. Freedoms are seldom taken away in one big bite, but instead in little nibbles which are seldom noticed by the victims... until they wake one day and realize that their freedom is a thing of the past! Last edited by MRRiley; 06-25-2008 at 12:15 PM.

06-25-2008, 05:38 PM	#23
patrickt Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oaxaca, Mexico Posts: 247	That's true. My thinking there isn't a problem doesn't mean there isn't one. And, some people thinking, and whining endlessly, about a problem doesn't mean there is one. When I left the U.S., the lose of freedom wasn't coming from the police. And, when I notice people posting about all the times they've been harrassed and mistreated when most people aren't, I have to wonder where the problem lies.

06-25-2008, 07:29 PM	#24
konraDarnok Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Albums Posts: 969	In war photography, I was told, "shoot f/8" makes sense really -- sorta the maxium light for the maximum DOF . . . while being shot at. B&W film days of course. Know nothing of it myself.

06-30-2008, 11:53 AM	#26
NYpHoToGraphEr Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brooklyn,NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 329	Originally posted by MRRiley Its not the police who hassle us that I have a problem with (the most anyway)... It's the rent-a-cops that have NO/NADA/ZIP authority off of their properties who constantly come onto public streets and sidewalks to harrass us. Patrickt... If you think the war of photographers is "hyped", try visiting Washington, DC and shooting photos from a public sidewalk of just about any federal or city building and start your stopwatch. I guarantee it won't be 60 seconds before someone wearing a "security guard" badge is running toward you. +1 Very Very true... Security guards don't know anything about ANY law... It's so annoying.

06-30-2008, 10:11 PM	#27
NYpHoToGraphEr Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brooklyn,NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 329	I wrote a post in my blog with these articles....

07-01-2008, 02:55 AM	#28
JCSullivan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Windsor, Canada Posts: 3,056 Original Poster	Something which Mike said in Post #22 which reminded me of Martin Niemoeller's poem: First they came for the Communists, - but I was not a communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, - but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, - but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me. The words in this poem are very very dear to me.