has anyone upgraded from windows 8.1 to 10?

lightbox · 06-06-2015, 09:51 AM

I just don't want subscriptions and ads. Ads especially are a deal breaker because I want my OS as unobtrusive as possible. It should just do its job in the background and not try to become the center of attention.

Not many people walk away from their computer thanking the OS for the work they got done that day. It's usually "thanks, Adobe," or "thanks, Office."

**RGlasel** · 06-06-2015, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

I installed "Classic Start Menu" and have avoided all the Win8ness of it all for the most part

I had to do this for my 77 year old mother's laptop. She has enough trouble as it is double-clicking with a mouse, so getting her to put her cursor in the corner whenever she wanted to see her desktop icons was a non-starter. Every once in a while a Windows update disables Classic Start Menu and then my mother wants to throw her laptop out the window. The real problem is that half of the Windows updates don't do anything useful for 99.999% of users, half of the updates actually make things worse, and if there is an update that improves the user experience for most people, it comes out as a new version. Which is the main thing that disturbs me about Windows 10. My understanding is that it will become very difficult to avoid accepting all and any Windows updates that Microsoft decides to push to activated machines.

My experience with Windows goes back to 1991 and version 3.0. I installed Windows 8 on my development machines and promptly uninstalled them when I had an MSDN subscription, and I'm hanging on to Windows 7 as far past its end-of-life date as possible. I can't afford to continuously wait for Microsoft to fix the mistakes it creates when it uses its user base as guinea pigs for the latest UI fad. Anyone remember Microsoft Bob? Well now Bob is called Cortana.

vonBaloney · 06-06-2015, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by RGlasel

I had to do this for my 77 year old mother's laptop. She has enough trouble as it is double-clicking with a mouse, so getting her to put her cursor in the corner whenever she wanted to see her desktop icons was a non-starter. Every once in a while a Windows update disables Classic Start Menu and then my mother wants to throw her laptop out the window.

Every once in a while I hit the wrong thing and the whole desktop goes away and I have to figure out how to drag it back from the right (something like that). I have no idea how to use the native win8 interface (and I'm doing this remotely over VNC)...

alamo5000 · 06-06-2015, 10:55 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by r0ckstarr

Anybody know how to get rid of the annoying notification in Win7 x64?

I uninstalled the update and the icon went away.

Follow the instructions at the link below and it will go away. It does require a restart but that's ok.

Hide or disable the Windows 10 system tray icon - CNET

jeallen01 · 06-06-2015, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by RGlasel

My understanding is that it will become very difficult to avoid accepting all and any Windows updates that Microsoft decides to push to activated machines.

My experience with Windows goes back to 1991 and version 3.0. I installed Windows 8 on my development machines and promptly uninstalled them when I had an MSDN subscription, and I'm hanging on to Windows 7 as far past its end-of-life date as possible. I can't afford to continuously wait for Microsoft to fix the mistakes it creates when it uses its user base as guinea pigs for the latest UI fad. Anyone remember Microsoft Bob? Well now Bob is called Cortana.

Ditto, except I started with (the totally pointless - it was just a kludged GUI) Windows 2! I will update one rarely-used W7 m/c to W10 to "see what it is all about" - but that worries me as to what effect it would have on the other 3x W7 (various versions) machines? Any ideas?

PS: as for Cortana, Cortina in Switzerland has a famous bobsleigh run ( I think!) - just hope Cortana would not result in an uncontrolled flight into oblivion in the way that me jumping on a bobsleigh in Cortina most certainly would!

Adam · 06-06-2015, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by r0ckstarr

Free for 1 year. Then you get charged.

I have Win7 x64 Ultimate. The Free Win10 is the Home edition. Once you upgrade, you cannot go back. I'd rather wait until support for Win7 ends before swapping to 10.

It's free as long as you upgrade within 1 year, after that, if you haven't upgraded, you have to purchase the upgrade.

Originally posted by vonBaloney

Well, no. If you wait more than a year, you have to buy it. But I think they are dumping the whole numbering system and there will just be continuous updates. So presumably they will have to charge for something eventually (subscription likely) -- it is unclear.

I heard that they skipped Windows 9 to avoid compatibility issues with Windows 95/98 programs, for the few who still use them.

jeallen01 · 06-06-2015, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Adam

I heard that they skipped Windows 9 to avoid compatibility issues with Windows 95/98 programs, for the few who still use them.

The "other story" is that, historically, the odd-numbered versions (thus 3, 5, W95, 98SE, XP and W7), were always said to "work" whilst the even-numbered versions (4, 6, 98, ME, 8) didn't work (but 3.1 could be said to be an notable exception)- so they decided to "break the sequence" !

Adam · 06-06-2015, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by jeallen01

The "other story" is that, historically, the odd-numbered versions (thus 3, 5, W95, 98SE, XP and W7), were always said to "work" whilst the even-numbered versions (4, 6, 98, ME, 8) didn't work (but 3.1 could be said to be an notable exception)- so they decided to "break the sequence" !

Meh, this sounds like a myth. Windows Vista is NT kernel v6.0, 7 is v6.1, 8 is v6.2, and 8.1 is v6.3. Just incremental developments in the same underlying OS with a key focus on the user.

**RGlasel** · 06-06-2015, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Adam

I heard that they skipped Windows 9 to avoid compatibility issues with Windows 95/98 programs, for the few who still use them.

True enough. There was an article on one of Microsoft's developer blogs titled "Version Checking (Just don't do it)" but the links don't work anymore and it looks like it has been pulled. The Windows API has a function GetVersion which returns a string instead of a unique identifier, and it caused nothing but problems if your program needed to compensate for different features of the Windows 9x versions (like USB support and such). It's not that using Windows 95/98/ME is the problem (in this particular case, it is a real challenge to run these versions in the present for a bunch of other reasons), but programs written to be compatible with those versions will probably exhibit unpredictable behaviour if they were run on Windows 9.

**clackers** · 06-06-2015, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by jeallen01

PS: as for Cortana, Cortina in Switzerland has a famous bobsleigh run

Cortana is a character in the Halo franchise, played by all those young folk on Xbox. :-)

Al_Kahollick · 06-06-2015, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by r0ckstarr

I have Win7 x64 Ultimate. The Free Win10 is the Home edition.

Win 7 Ultimate and Pro versions will get Win 10 Pro, (there's no "Ultimate" in Win10, just Home or Pro). In order to switch back, you'll have to do a clean install from your Win 7 discs / recovery media.

**ChrisPlatt** · 06-06-2015, 06:44 PM

I'm pretty sure that once Windows 7 is no longer viable I'll be switching to Linux.

Chris

jeallen01 · 06-06-2015, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by Adam

Meh, this sounds like a myth. ...

Don't get me wrong - I do agree with you, but the myth had some basis in fact because the general opinions of users actually agree that most of the even-numbered versions were rubbish or close to it!

As for your other comment (not quoted) about user focus, the problem is, as it has been for years, that MS have been focusing on what they think the users want, and not what most users actually do want (which is mainly a useful and unobtrusive OS with which they are accustomed and lets them set their machine up to do what they want easily, quickly and successfully, and then get on with other things - which is why a lot of us don't like the tiles approach on PCs, although it is relatively OK on tablets and phones). Rant over!

**clackers** · 06-07-2015, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by jeallen01

which is why a lot of us don't like the tiles approach on PCs, although it is relatively OK on tablets and phones). Rant over!

The hooks were always there in Win8 to not use them on non-touchscreen devices, so I routinely install Classic Shell on those.

My understanding is that Win 10 goes further with distinguishing between traditional and touch interfaces.

As much as I know the Yoga and Surface are good, I always retain a traditional desktop with mouse and keyboard for 'real' computing.

What a recalcitrant I must be. Explains why I also ride a penny farthing and churn my own butter. :-D

jeallen01 · 06-07-2015, 03:44 AM

Originally posted by clackers

The hooks were always there in Win8 to not use them on non-touchscreen devices, so I routinely install Classic Shell on those.

My understanding is that Win 10 goes further with distinguishing between traditional and touch interfaces.

As much as I know the Yoga and Surface are good, I always retain a traditional desktop with mouse and keyboard for 'real' computing.

What a recalcitrant I must be. Explains why I also ride a penny farthing and churn my own butter. :-D

W.r.t. the hooks, glad to hear that but most of us would have at least some trouble in finding out how to use them. If W10 provides the facility to use the Classic Desktop, then it should a clear and very straightforward choice that is given to the installer and user at the time of installation, or at any time thereafter - as opposed to needing some technical "nowse" (Northern England slang for knowledge!) or something that is in any way hidden or disguised.

W.r.t. yourself using the Classic desktop, that is good to hear - long may it continue!

06-06-2015, 01:19 PM	#20
jeallen01 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,697	Originally posted by RGlasel My understanding is that it will become very difficult to avoid accepting all and any Windows updates that Microsoft decides to push to activated machines. My experience with Windows goes back to 1991 and version 3.0. I installed Windows 8 on my development machines and promptly uninstalled them when I had an MSDN subscription, and I'm hanging on to Windows 7 as far past its end-of-life date as possible. I can't afford to continuously wait for Microsoft to fix the mistakes it creates when it uses its user base as guinea pigs for the latest UI fad. Anyone remember Microsoft Bob? Well now Bob is called Cortana. Ditto, except I started with (the totally pointless - it was just a kludged GUI) Windows 2! I will update one rarely-used W7 m/c to W10 to "see what it is all about" - but that worries me as to what effect it would have on the other 3x W7 (various versions) machines? Any ideas? PS: as for Cortana, Cortina in Switzerland has a famous bobsleigh run ( I think!) - just hope Cortana would not result in an uncontrolled flight into oblivion in the way that me jumping on a bobsleigh in Cortina most certainly would! Last edited by jeallen01; 06-06-2015 at 02:19 PM.

06-06-2015, 01:52 PM	#21
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	Originally posted by r0ckstarr Free for 1 year. Then you get charged. I have Win7 x64 Ultimate. The Free Win10 is the Home edition. Once you upgrade, you cannot go back. I'd rather wait until support for Win7 ends before swapping to 10. It's free as long as you upgrade within 1 year, after that, if you haven't upgraded, you have to purchase the upgrade. Originally posted by vonBaloney Well, no. If you wait more than a year, you have to buy it. But I think they are dumping the whole numbering system and there will just be continuous updates. So presumably they will have to charge for something eventually (subscription likely) -- it is unclear. I heard that they skipped Windows 9 to avoid compatibility issues with Windows 95/98 programs, for the few who still use them. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

06-06-2015, 02:44 PM	#23
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	Originally posted by jeallen01 The "other story" is that, historically, the odd-numbered versions (thus 3, 5, W95, 98SE, XP and W7), were always said to "work" whilst the even-numbered versions (4, 6, 98, ME, 8) didn't work (but 3.1 could be said to be an notable exception)- so they decided to "break the sequence" ! Meh, this sounds like a myth. Windows Vista is NT kernel v6.0, 7 is v6.1, 8 is v6.2, and 8.1 is v6.3. Just incremental developments in the same underlying OS with a key focus on the user. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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06-06-2015, 09:51 AM	#16
lightbox Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 599	I just don't want subscriptions and ads. Ads especially are a deal breaker because I want my OS as unobtrusive as possible. It should just do its job in the background and not try to become the center of attention. Not many people walk away from their computer thanking the OS for the work they got done that day. It's usually "thanks, Adobe," or "thanks, Office."

06-06-2015, 10:15 AM	#17
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,229	Originally posted by vonBaloney I installed "Classic Start Menu" and have avoided all the Win8ness of it all for the most part I had to do this for my 77 year old mother's laptop. She has enough trouble as it is double-clicking with a mouse, so getting her to put her cursor in the corner whenever she wanted to see her desktop icons was a non-starter. Every once in a while a Windows update disables Classic Start Menu and then my mother wants to throw her laptop out the window. The real problem is that half of the Windows updates don't do anything useful for 99.999% of users, half of the updates actually make things worse, and if there is an update that improves the user experience for most people, it comes out as a new version. Which is the main thing that disturbs me about Windows 10. My understanding is that it will become very difficult to avoid accepting all and any Windows updates that Microsoft decides to push to activated machines. My experience with Windows goes back to 1991 and version 3.0. I installed Windows 8 on my development machines and promptly uninstalled them when I had an MSDN subscription, and I'm hanging on to Windows 7 as far past its end-of-life date as possible. I can't afford to continuously wait for Microsoft to fix the mistakes it creates when it uses its user base as guinea pigs for the latest UI fad. Anyone remember Microsoft Bob? Well now Bob is called Cortana.

06-06-2015, 10:34 AM	#18
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by RGlasel I had to do this for my 77 year old mother's laptop. She has enough trouble as it is double-clicking with a mouse, so getting her to put her cursor in the corner whenever she wanted to see her desktop icons was a non-starter. Every once in a while a Windows update disables Classic Start Menu and then my mother wants to throw her laptop out the window. Every once in a while I hit the wrong thing and the whole desktop goes away and I have to figure out how to drag it back from the right (something like that). I have no idea how to use the native win8 interface (and I'm doing this remotely over VNC)...

06-06-2015, 10:55 AM - 1 Like	#19
alamo5000 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,962	Originally posted by r0ckstarr Anybody know how to get rid of the annoying notification in Win7 x64? I uninstalled the update and the icon went away. Follow the instructions at the link below and it will go away. It does require a restart but that's ok. Hide or disable the Windows 10 system tray icon - CNET

06-06-2015, 02:06 PM	#22
jeallen01 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,697	Originally posted by Adam I heard that they skipped Windows 9 to avoid compatibility issues with Windows 95/98 programs, for the few who still use them. The "other story" is that, historically, the odd-numbered versions (thus 3, 5, W95, 98SE, XP and W7), were always said to "work" whilst the even-numbered versions (4, 6, 98, ME, 8) didn't work (but 3.1 could be said to be an notable exception)- so they decided to "break the sequence" !

06-06-2015, 04:19 PM	#24
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,229	Originally posted by Adam I heard that they skipped Windows 9 to avoid compatibility issues with Windows 95/98 programs, for the few who still use them. True enough. There was an article on one of Microsoft's developer blogs titled "Version Checking (Just don't do it)" but the links don't work anymore and it looks like it has been pulled. The Windows API has a function GetVersion which returns a string instead of a unique identifier, and it caused nothing but problems if your program needed to compensate for different features of the Windows 9x versions (like USB support and such). It's not that using Windows 95/98/ME is the problem (in this particular case, it is a real challenge to run these versions in the present for a bunch of other reasons), but programs written to be compatible with those versions will probably exhibit unpredictable behaviour if they were run on Windows 9.

06-06-2015, 05:07 PM	#25
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by jeallen01 PS: as for Cortana, Cortina in Switzerland has a famous bobsleigh run Cortana is a character in the Halo franchise, played by all those young folk on Xbox. :-)

06-06-2015, 05:44 PM	#26
Al_Kahollick Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 390	Originally posted by r0ckstarr I have Win7 x64 Ultimate. The Free Win10 is the Home edition. Win 7 Ultimate and Pro versions will get Win 10 Pro, (there's no "Ultimate" in Win10, just Home or Pro). In order to switch back, you'll have to do a clean install from your Win 7 discs / recovery media.

06-06-2015, 06:44 PM	#27
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,696	I'm pretty sure that once Windows 7 is no longer viable I'll be switching to Linux. Chris

06-06-2015, 11:51 PM	#28
jeallen01 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,697	Originally posted by Adam Meh, this sounds like a myth. ... Don't get me wrong - I do agree with you, but the myth had some basis in fact because the general opinions of users actually agree that most of the even-numbered versions were rubbish or close to it! As for your other comment (not quoted) about user focus, the problem is, as it has been for years, that MS have been focusing on what they think the users want, and not what most users actually do want (which is mainly a useful and unobtrusive OS with which they are accustomed and lets them set their machine up to do what they want easily, quickly and successfully, and then get on with other things - which is why a lot of us don't like the tiles approach on PCs, although it is relatively OK on tablets and phones). Rant over!

06-07-2015, 12:54 AM	#29
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by jeallen01 which is why a lot of us don't like the tiles approach on PCs, although it is relatively OK on tablets and phones). Rant over! The hooks were always there in Win8 to not use them on non-touchscreen devices, so I routinely install Classic Shell on those. My understanding is that Win 10 goes further with distinguishing between traditional and touch interfaces. As much as I know the Yoga and Surface are good, I always retain a traditional desktop with mouse and keyboard for 'real' computing. What a recalcitrant I must be. Explains why I also ride a penny farthing and churn my own butter. :-D

06-07-2015, 03:44 AM	#30
jeallen01 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,697	Originally posted by clackers The hooks were always there in Win8 to not use them on non-touchscreen devices, so I routinely install Classic Shell on those. My understanding is that Win 10 goes further with distinguishing between traditional and touch interfaces. As much as I know the Yoga and Surface are good, I always retain a traditional desktop with mouse and keyboard for 'real' computing. What a recalcitrant I must be. Explains why I also ride a penny farthing and churn my own butter. :-D W.r.t. the hooks, glad to hear that but most of us would have at least some trouble in finding out how to use them. If W10 provides the facility to use the Classic Desktop, then it should a clear and very straightforward choice that is given to the installer and user at the time of installation, or at any time thereafter - as opposed to needing some technical "nowse" (Northern England slang for knowledge!) or something that is in any way hidden or disguised. W.r.t. yourself using the Classic desktop, that is good to hear - long may it continue!