[monochrome]

2015 BMW M4 coupe

I've just looked at the 2016 edition of that car . . . . but I still have children young enough that I think I'd need the M3 (and something about an M with a 6 cyl. doesn't work for me).

[Racer X 69]

Maybe an example of how traffic goes... though this driver isn't particularly smooth, I guess he wanted to show off/try out how fast the car is.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or7u3SLrA4c#t=55






It's just not dangerous, and can even reduce risks.

I generally would be the last person to be critical about spirited, high speed driving.


But.


The traffic in this video is way too heavy for that high of speeds.


And.


I see the wipers come on now and again.


Not very smart on the part of the BMW driver to be attempting to set a land speed record in such conditions.

[kadajawi]

I generally would be the last person to be critical about spirited, high speed driving.


But.


The traffic in this video is way too heavy for that high of speeds.


And.


I see the wipers come on now and again.


Not very smart on the part of the BMW driver to be attempting to set a land speed record in such conditions.

I agree with the rain, though I've been in a TT on wet roads at high speeds gripping like it's dry, so I guess it's not much of an issue with good, new tyres.

The traffic though is nowhere near dense, and I wouldn't consider it too dense for these speeds. Perfectly fine, at least in the M5, and many other cars IMHO. German drivers are less random, less distracted. In other countries I would see things differently.

[lesmore49]

Les, I've not looked at this thread for some time, but I'm glad I did today - you obviously know from experience the "rate-determening step" in fast driving.

BTW, before I retired, I traveled to Europe a number of times on business, and I enjoyed cruising Germany's wonderful Autobahn a great deal in my rented Opels, VWs, Fords et. al. and watching big black Mercs, snarling gray Bimmers and wickedly svelte 911s blast past us in the left lane. Like most folks, I zipped along in the right lane at 120 - 130 km/hr (75 - 80 mph) - about what you'd do along Texas interstate highways (which - sadly - are indifferently maintained and populated with morons plugging the left lane).

Over the years my wife and I have traveled to Europe, mostly the UK and France. I recall one instance (mid 80's) where we had rented a Peugeot 205 GTI, just a basic job with the 1000 cc engine. We were on the M1, passing a large, slow lorry and the little 205 was straining to break the 70 mph mark. It was if it was in the last stages of a land speed record attempt....every nut and bolt shaking, vibrating ...at 71, 72, 73 mph. Unfortunately and eventually...a Jag V12 came up quickly behind us...flashing passing lights, etc. and we had no place to go but forward...slowly. our Peugeot/Jag 'convoy' finally made it around.....but I recall thinking at the time....having a higher performance car...which to me includes uprated suspension, speed rated tires, powerful engine, large brakes, large cooling system....is better...when driving. I've always felt avoiding accidents is not always about jammin' on the brakes in a straight line, but also about accelerating , maneuvering , etc.

Recently we came back from a driving trip through Montana, SD and Wyoming. SD and Wyoming have 80 mph limits on the interstates and they're relativity free from heavy traffic. We took our new car which has an uprated suspension, speed rated tires, 305 hp, automatic transmission with an effective manual over ride. It was great to whip along at 80...with the occasional burst to 95 to get around long trucks. But I'm always conscious of other drivers...I never trust others on the road. Comes from my long history of riding motorcycles and for that matter every type of vehicle. I think some drivers can be too trusting about other driver's intentions.

I was impressed with every car I rented (two or three of which were diesels), and I'm particularly impressed with my daughter's new VW GTI - an absolute bargain at around 26 grand US. However, were I to venture onto that left lane of the Autobahn - given the choice - I'd pick a Mustang GT (not to mention a Corvette) over these wonderful European daily drivers.

And that's coming from a guy who - as you may remember - owns a 2013 Boxster S and a 2015 BMW M4 coupe (both of which would fit nicely in the left lane ).

Jer

The VW GTI is a wonderful sports sedan. A buddy has one that he uses in his work (Engineer) through the twisty roads in upstate New York. I think I would share your vehicle of choice for Autobahn work. Although I might lean to a Camaro Z 28. But then I'm a Chevy guy.

Les

[charchri4]

kadajawi I've never been to Europe but I have years of track experience and know a performance car when I see one. Any car that has to work hard at 5000 rpm to maintain 111 mph is not designed for regular stints at that speed. The contact patch on those tiny tires is nothing and no all season tire with that much sidewall should be run over 100 mph even if they did have a decent footprint. That you activated the antilock brakes indicates you were over driving the friction circle of the car. I could go on with the high center of gravity etc but it's a pointless debate the fact is your car is not competent at the speeds you are talking about.

And German drivers are less distracted? Well that would look great on your tombstone. Even if that was true are you going to bet everyone one you come close to at 111 mph is less distracted? Things happen really REALLY fast at that speed and even a small issue can be catastrophic. Every driver that has been pulled from an accident felt the same way you do that they were perfectly safe before it happened.

I don't mean to pick on you I'm looking through the lens of a dozen years as a first responder on hundreds of accidents and the schools and hours to hold an SCCA competition license. So my view is very different and we will probably have agree to disagree.

[lesmore49]

kadajawi I've never been to Europe but I have years of track experience and know a performance car when I see one. Any car that has to work hard at 5000 rpm to maintain 111 mph is not designed for regular stints at that speed. The contact patch on those tiny tires is nothing and no all season tire with that much sidewall should be run over 100 mph even if they did have a decent footprint. That you activated the antilock brakes indicates you were over driving the friction circle of the car. I could go on with the high center of gravity etc but it's a pointless debate the fact is your car is not competent at the speeds you are talking about.

And German drivers are less distracted? Well that would look great on your tombstone. Even if that was true are you going to bet everyone one you come close to at 111 mph is less distracted? Things happen really REALLY fast at that speed and even a small issue can be catastrophic. Every driver that has been pulled from an accident felt the same way you do that they were perfectly safe before it happened.

I don't mean to pick on you I'm looking through the lens of a dozen years as a first responder on hundreds of accidents and the schools and hours to hold an SCCA competition license. So my view is very different and we will probably have agree to disagree.

Good points all.

[kadajawi]

kadajawi I've never been to Europe but I have years of track experience and know a performance car when I see one. Any car that has to work hard at 5000 rpm to maintain 111 mph is not designed for regular stints at that speed. The contact patch on those tiny tires is nothing and no all season tire with that much sidewall should be run over 100 mph even if they did have a decent footprint. That you activated the antilock brakes indicates you were over driving the friction circle of the car. I could go on with the high center of gravity etc but it's a pointless debate the fact is your car is not competent at the speeds you are talking about.

And German drivers are less distracted? Well that would look great on your tombstone. Even if that was true are you going to bet everyone one you come close to at 111 mph is less distracted? Things happen really REALLY fast at that speed and even a small issue can be catastrophic. Every driver that has been pulled from an accident felt the same way you do that they were perfectly safe before it happened.

I don't mean to pick on you I'm looking through the lens of a dozen years as a first responder on hundreds of accidents and the schools and hours to hold an SCCA competition license. So my view is very different and we will probably have agree to disagree.

My car is also available with a much more powerful engine, I have the base engine. The differences are mostly limited to the engine. I am running on 195 wide tyres, which is enough IMHO, and proper winter tyres. I only triggered the ABS with my old tyres that were too old, and only in the wet.

Again, statistics show that Germany is safe. Safer than the US. Despite people driving faster. People are trained to drive fast, and 180 km/h is nothing. We are not driving on race tracks with tight corners.

I have had more dangerous situations driving in France or Spain, let alone Malaysia. And in those countries people drive slow.

---

Last edited by kadajawi; 10-27-2015 at 01:04 PM.

[zzaletel]

I tend to stray toward the self-maintainable and unusual. I suppose I don't like going with the flow. And enjoy some extra space to haul things around.



1992 Volvo 245
Pro: Dead simple, reliable, easy to fix, overengineered
Con: Nobody would mistake it for fast. Car was built around the blower motor.

1995 Saab 9000 Aero
Pro: Zippy, five speed, comfy, spacious
Con: TCS system will cause issues at some point. Saab is no longer with us.

[lesmore49]

My car is also available with a much more powerful engine, I have the base engine. The differences are mostly limited to the engine. I am running on 195 wide tyres, which is enough IMHO, and proper winter tyres.

You maybe surprised to find out that a car model similar to yours...but with the optional 'much, more powerful engine' ...also may have some additional revisions in suspension components, engine cooling, brakes and possibly uprated tires, to name just some areas.

Some of the differences may be subtle, such as different material bushings in suspension components, marginally thicker anti roll bars, different valving in shocks...that the manufacturer has determined are necessary for the vehicle to safely cope with additional power. This would be some of the 'tweaks' for the suspension alone.

A lot of this, may not be apparent to the casual eye.

You mentioned your car is running 195 tires. What are the complete numbers (ie; 195/60-15) and the speed rating for theses tires ?

I'm a motor vehicle enthusiast ...some may say car nut ....always interested in technical details and interested in car specs in other world markets.

Les

[kadajawi]

You maybe surprised to find out that a car model similar to yours...but with the optional 'much, more powerful engine' ...also may have some additional revisions in suspension components, engine cooling, brakes and possibly uprated tires, to name just some areas.

Some of the differences may be subtle, such as different material bushings in suspension components, marginally thicker anti roll bars, different valving in shocks...that the manufacturer has determined are necessary for the vehicle to safely cope with additional power. This would be some of the 'tweaks' for the suspension alone.

A lot of this, may not be apparent to the casual eye.

You mentioned your car is running 195 tires. What are the complete numbers (ie; 195/60-15) and the speed rating for theses tires ?

I'm a motor vehicle enthusiast ...some may say car nut ....always interested in technical details and interested in car specs in other world markets.

Les

I know that the more powerful variants have slightly bigger brakes and stability control (I have to make do with ABS and 6 airbags, fortunately I've never had a situation where I'd need the stability control). Better engine cooling... I've driven for an hour or so going almost full throttle, never ran into any issues.

They are 195/55 R15 (stock would be 185/65 R14 I think), and speed rating H? 210 km/h. Nokian WR D4.

IMHO car makers know how Europeans, particularly Germans drive, and cars offered for that market have to be suitable for that. Even the smart is used for speeding... Japanese and Korean car makers make cars that are only offered on the European market, while the models used in America are used elsewhere too. Why...?

I'm one of the slower drivers amongst my German friends... I usually do 130-160, but a friend does maybe 180 in her previous gen Hyundai i30, her boyfriend does 180-220 in his Skoda Superb. Another friend does 250+ in his S5. etc. The only one that drives slower didn't drive in 10 years, and barely ever drove on the highway. She feels more at home at 130.

@ſzzaletel: Sweeet! Amusingly you seem to be quite normal in this forum, owning a Saab. Elsewhere they are uncommon. I'm way less common with my Citroen and Renault here

[Ratcheteer]

Germans driving fast is like for Americans owning a gun

throw a german or american driver on any road in new zealand and they will drive slower than your grandmother (anyone can drive fast in the straight line but give them blind narrow corners and its a different story)

in Australia they introduced some speed limit free highways. That was such a big success that they now opened up more. It's just not dangerous, and can even reduce risks.

still keep an eye out for skippy and other things that might like to cross the road

Japanese and Korean car makers make cars that are only offered on the European market, while the models used in America are used elsewhere too. Why...?

emissions laws are stricter in the states which is why you wont find euro market japanese cars in the states, and other countries have stricter compliance laws which is why some countries get the U.S. models over the Euro ones

[charchri4]

195/55 - LOL OK OK I give up! This is getting sidetracked from the intent of the thread. You know your roads and drivers where you are and I do not.

But I do know a thing or two about building capable cars


and driving them fast


and I very much doubt I would feel comfortable at 110+ mph sharing the road with so many unknown vehicles and drivers. I'm glad it works for you and hope you stay safe. And above all please don't rely on electronics to keep you safe!

[kadajawi]

195/55 - LOL OK OK I give up! This is getting sidetracked from the intent of the thread. You know your roads and drivers where you are and I do not.

But I do know a thing or two about building capable cars


and driving them fast


and I very much doubt I would feel comfortable at 110+ mph sharing the road with so many unknown vehicles and drivers. I'm glad it works for you and hope you stay safe. And above all please don't rely on electronics to keep you safe!

I know I know, they aren't the widest tyres in the world, but to me it's a reasonable compromise. IMHO in Germany everything, from the drivers ed to the cars* and even the roads is built for high speed driving, that's why we feel comfortable driving so fast. On the other hand it's probably hard for Germans (me at least) to understand how you can allow almost anyone to own and carry a gun.

You certainly do, that is one hell of a MX-5. Would love to try it on the Autobahn.


*I am quite sure that a big part of why the German car industry is so big, and filled with successful premium brands is the Autobahn.

[Ratcheteer]

how you can allow almost anyone to own and carry a gun.

cause cars increase the population and guns reduce it :P

[Tom S.]

On the other hand it's probably hard for Germans (me at least) to understand how you can allow almost anyone to own and carry a gun.

Here are some real stats for you. From 2013 (latest year available) the Center for Disease Control reports 33,169 deaths from firearms. Of that total, two thirds or 21,175 were suicide, 505 from accidental discharge and 281 from 'undetermined intent", leaving 11,208 homicides. In the same year, 32,719 people died from car accidents. So I guess we should outlaw both cars and guns. Nevertheless, both statistics pale in comparison to the number of preventable deaths caused by the medical profession, which is the number 3 cause of death in this country (out numbered by cancer and heart attacks) at a staggering 400,000.

To outsiders and even our own citizens, it appears we allow almost anyone to own and carry a gun. Such is not the case. Everyone purchasing a gun must pass a background check, unless purchasing from a private individual. There in lies the loop holes in the system. Straw man purchases (where some who can pass the background check) are perhaps the number one cause of people not allowed to own firearms of getting them. While there are laws against this practice, it is seldom enforced. Even groups like the NRA want to have rigorous enforcement of rules like this, but their pleas fall on deaf ears, manly in many cases because our prisons are already over crowded. I would much rather see a person buying a fire arm for someone not eligible to own one serve 5 years (or more) in prison than some drug addict who's only crime was getting caught with drugs in his possession. And all that is for mere possession. Carrying is a whole different matter. While it varies from state to state, persons wishing to carry a fire arm, not only have to pass the back ground check, but must also attend training, which is as it should be.