[reeftool]

I see a number of Hondas and Acura's with the lip of the rear upper wheel arch rusted out. Also older Mercedes vans (Sprinters) became rust buckets in no time .

Worst car of mine for rust, and that rusted through the metal within two, two and a half years was my 1973 Toyota Corolla. It was bought new. Back then the word was that the Japanese manufacturers steel wasn't the greatest.

Ford used to have paint issues, haven't seen much GM rust issues, but GM did have intake gasket issues on the 60 degree V6 a few years ago. And don't get me started on Mopar's Jeep Patriot with it's CVT transmission and a litany of other faults. Family member got new one in 2014 and it was constantly in the garage. He couldn't trade it in fast enough, got a Nissan Frontier pickup which has been fine. What a difference.

They all have problems, but generally cars from all manufacturers are more engine reliable than before.

A mechanic friend of mine says one reason for engines being more reliable is federal emissions standards...which require car engines to run well for a number of years, so their emissions don't increase within a certain number of years. Secondary benefit is that engines last longer. Also fuel injection , as opposed to carburetors can contribute to engine life.

Japanese cars from the 70's and early 80's were horrendous rustbuckets. I don't think any of them came near to American car quality as far as the build quality of the body and frame, despite the excellent mechanical durability. But they learned quickly that reliable drivetrains and electronics are useless if the body rots away and the frames rust and crack and they got their act together for the most part. GM trucks are notorious for rust, especially their mid sized models. I had 2 S-10's and an 05 Canyon that still ran excellent but went to the junkyard because of frame rust. They have developed a poor reputation up here in the northeast and upper midwest.

I won't buy anything with a CVT transmission. They have a bad reputation but the car manufacturers continue to push them and the automotive media for some reason continues to rave about them. I've never had good luck with any Mopar product. One of the worse cars I ever owned was an Audi 4000. Around that same time period, my daughter owned a VW Quantum. They earned the nickname Hitlers Revenge. Just a few years ago, my granddaughter bought a Passat against my recommendation. It was another horror story of German engineering. After a year of constant repairs, some of which I ended up paying for, I took her to a Chevy dealer and gave her the downpayment on a Cruze which she is still driving.

---------- Post added 03-30-21 at 03:01 PM ----------

Also older Mercedes vans (Sprinters) became rust buckets in no time .

We have some Sprinters at work with the Freightliner badge along with a fleet of 60 Freightliner tractors, all part of the Daimler-Mercedes family. Don't even get me started on these pieces of trash. We previously were an International fleet with Cummins ISM engines. While not perfect by any means, they were far superior and less costly to repair and keep running. The Sprinters are starting to be replaced with Ford Transits. I don't know if they will be better but they can't be any worse. Sprinters are sold under the Mercedes, Dodge, and Freightliner labels. They are basically all the same.[COLOR="Silver"]

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Last edited by reeftool; 03-30-2021 at 12:03 PM. Reason: posted comment twice. Deleted duplicate

[ThorSanchez]

Over the weekend it was raining and I had nothing better to do so I went online and spec'd out the following:

1. A classic blue Morgan Plus 4 with black wire wheels and brown leather interior. They don't have full US prices, but probably about $80k.
2. A red 2021 Audi RS6 Avant with 580-something horsepower. The worlds best way to haul the boys and their stuff to soccer games at ridiculously illegal speeds. $119k.
3. A red Tesla Model 3 Performance. $56k without the full (not really) self driving, $66k with. 0-60 in 3.1 seconds.

I spent quite a while lusting after each of them.


I also have a '63 Corvette split-window coupe in the garage needing about $60k in work to be functional and reasonably safe.

So, I'll keep driving my '14 Audi S4 with 100k on the odometer for quite a while...

[lesmore49]

More to my post about for the most part auto manufacturers generally make ok vehicles nowadays, but there are no manufacturers that make 'perfect' vehicles and by that I mean none. I've had two Toyotas....both bought new...one a 1973, one a 2007 and both had issues.

I've had Chevies, Fords, Volvos, Buick's, Volkswagen's, Oldsmobile's, etc.....and they have all had issues. Some think that certain makes rise above all others and are immune to mechanical, electronic, flaws, issues...but they are not.

Vehicles are a series of complex systems ....mechanical, electronic, body.....the list goes on. We subject vehicles to extreme cold, sitting outside for hours, sometimes weeks without even as much as a startup. Vehicles generate heat, vibration, harshness just in their operation, road hazards, poor drivers who nail curbs, hit other objects, are often overloaded and many of us still expect them to operate flawlessly...all the time...often not maintaining them according to manufacturer requirements.

Many vehicles from different companies use the same components...witness the Takata airbag recall....many companies, use this company's airbags...from different parts of the world...Japan, USA, Germany, etc.

Here is an example of a Honda issue in Canada that affects many Canadian drivers. But remember, I'm not picking on Honda...I could find issues, with Ford, Honda, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Subaru and the list goes on.

Canadians complain heating systems on Hondas fail in winter | Winnipeg Sun

[ivanvernon]

More to my post about for the most part auto manufacturers generally make ok vehicles nowadays, but there are no manufacturers that make 'perfect' vehicles and by that I mean none. I've had two Toyotas....both bought new...one a 1973, one a 2007 and both had issues.

I've had Chevies, Fords, Volvos, Buick's, Volkswagen's, Oldsmobile's, etc.....and they have all had issues. Some think that certain makes rise above all others and are immune to mechanical, electronic, flaws, issues...but they are not.

Vehicles are a series of complex systems ....mechanical, electronic, body.....the list goes on. We subject vehicles to extreme cold, sitting outside for hours, sometimes weeks without even as much as a startup. Vehicles generate heat, vibration, harshness just in their operation, road hazards, poor drivers who nail curbs, hit other objects, are often overloaded and many of us still expect them to operate flawlessly...all the time...often not maintaining them according to manufacturer requirements.

Many vehicles from different companies use the same components...witness the Takata airbag recall....many companies, use this company's airbags...from different parts of the world...Japan, USA, Germany, etc.

Here is an example of a Honda issue in Canada that affects many Canadian drivers. But remember, I'm not picking on Honda...I could find issues, with Ford, Honda, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Subaru and the list goes on.

Canadians complain heating systems on Hondas fail in winter | Winnipeg Sun

Independent testing agencies and publications such as Consumer Reports certainly seem to find major differences in the mechanical reliability of the various auto brands as well as differences in such areas as fit and finish, proneness to rusting, and paint durability. However, these agencies do not suggest that any single brand has no issues of any kind, but rather that different brands have different amounts and types of issues.

[ChrisPlatt]

I have also tried to note what my most miserly, er I mean "thriftiest" co-workers are driving.
It's not real scientific, but it is telling...

Chris

[Peter Rockstroh]

Great car ! A real pity having to sell it because Colombia does not allow the import of used vehicles

[lesmore49]

Great car ! A real pity having to sell it because Colombia does not allow the import of used vehicles

Beautiful. I've always found old style Land Rovers very appealing. They looks like they could survive an Armageddon.

[ivanvernon]

Beautiful. I've always found old style Land Rovers very appealing. They looks like they could survive an Armageddon.

Photo brings back lots of memories of months spent in Tanzania, Uganda, and Kenya back in the 1980s. Main vehicles were Land Rovers (like this one but not so clean!) and Toyota Land Cruisers, both with diesel engines. The saying among UN project managers was that if your project is for three years, buy Land Cruisers and ride in comfort, but if it is for ten years buy Land Rovers for durability. Land Rovers were noisy and crudely built, but you could get them fixed anywhere even out in the bush. Just about every little village had someone who specialized in fixing Land Rovers, and could even beat out crushed aluminum fenders with a rubber hammer. At the time, only Land Rovers were permitted on safari in Ngorogoro Crater Park because of the rough nature of the roads. Most of the Land Rovers had winches on front to allow them to extricate themselves when stuck or unable to reach the top of a hill otherwise. I even heard of Land Rovers being used to plow corn fields. I used to think I would like to buy one and bring it back to the states, but then the steering was on the wrong side of the vehicle.

[timb64]

Great car ! A real pity having to sell it because Colombia does not allow the import of used vehicles

Definitely on my wish-list!

[Peter Rockstroh]

They are great cars, although quite surprising in design. When I bought this car, even with the seat pushed back completely, it was a nightmare to drive. I took out the three (3+1) seats in the back, wedged the 3 seat bench between the wheels and put driver´s and copilot´s seats on rails so they could be pushed backed and I could drive with my legs stretched out. That way even sitting in the backseat one could stretch the legs out. I fitted the roof with an aluminium platform for tent and tripod and enjoyed the car for 15 years.

[ThorSanchez]

Beautiful. I've always found old style Land Rovers very appealing. They looks like they could survive an Armageddon.

Photo brings back lots of memories of months spent in Tanzania, Uganda, and Kenya back in the 1980s. Main vehicles were Land Rovers (like this one but not so clean!) and Toyota Land Cruisers, both with diesel engines. The saying among UN project managers was that if your project is for three years, buy Land Cruisers and ride in comfort, but if it is for ten years buy Land Rovers for durability. Land Rovers were noisy and crudely built, but you could get them fixed anywhere even out in the bush. Just about every little village had someone who specialized in fixing Land Rovers, and could even beat out crushed aluminum fenders with a rubber hammer. At the time, only Land Rovers were permitted on safari in Ngorogoro Crater Park because of the rough nature of the roads. Most of the Land Rovers had winches on front to allow them to extricate themselves when stuck or unable to reach the top of a hill otherwise. I even heard of Land Rovers being used to plow corn fields. I used to think I would like to buy one and bring it back to the states, but then the steering was on the wrong side of the vehicle.

I always loved the look and the idea of an old Land Rover with jerry cans and shovels tied on the roof rack, trekking across Africa. The Defender was the prototypical vehicle for that. Just cool, and I'm about as anti-SUV as someone can be.

But the new 2020- Defender? Looks perfectly at home in the Costco parking lot.

[timb64]

But the new 2020- Defender? Looks perfectly at home in the Costco parking lot.

The INEOS Grenadier has more of the original Defender look,but whether it’s as resilient is another matter.

[ThorSanchez]

The INEOS Grenadier has more of the original Defender look,but whether it’s as resilient is another matter.

Yes, that's more like it. I'm certainly not the target market, but my assumption for all cool cars from small non-US manufacturers is that something will trip them up in certifying for the US market, and even if they get through those hoops it'll cost $125k.

I'm seriously interested in a Morgan Plus Four, but to get one in the US you have to special order it, have the thing shipped to a US dealer (of which there are about five, luckily one is just three hours from my house) in crates and they have to assemble it here. They don't tell you the exact cost, but say it starts around $70k. Which I interpret as once you get through all the options and fees and who knows what else it'll be close to 90 grand. But if you go through all that I'd almost guarantee you'll never pass another one on the highway as long as you live.

[Peter Rockstroh]

I understand that the problem with the Defenders, both 90 and 110, is that they lack airbags, which is why they can´t circulate in the U.S.

[Racer X 69]

I understand that the problem with the Defenders, both 90 and 110, is that they lack airbags, which is why they can´t circulate in the U.S.

I guess the airbag behind the steering wheel doesn’t count then, eh?