UH, OH, Don't Like This. No Thanks Microsoft!!!!

**gaweidert** · 08-01-2015, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by paulh

It seems there are a couple workarounds for this, involving MS Excel and/or installing Streets & Trips in Win 7 compatibility mode. I don't run Windows or own this software, so I can't help other than to provide a link: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-winapps/is-stre...827e974?page=1

This is not the issue. It worked fine on my computer for two years. On July 15 2015, Microsoft announced that they were stopping all support for Streets and Trips and supporting Bing Maps only. After that date I can no longer start it. I get and error concerning licensing. I cannot even reinstall it without getting the same message and install shuts down. As stated earlier, I do have a legal copy and license. I have not been able to find a way to get it running again.

Ratmagiclady · 08-01-2015, 06:38 PM - **1 Like**

Well, if you believe in the power of ratmagic... I bailed for Linux already.

Totemically-speaking: To everything, turn turn turn,

And a time to get out from under that heavy thing and be in the next county saying, Seeyalater, and forget about it.

**newmikey** · 08-01-2015, 11:52 PM

Although I use (am forced to) Windows7 at work, where all maintenance is done by the Facilities dept. and a whole bunch of nice people somewhere in Bangalore (I think), I moved to Linux at home some 10+ years back for all 3 PC's, 2 laptops as well as the media server so I certainly cannot complain about Windows today. It seems to work reasonably well and I quite like Outlook as a mail client to be honest.

I do feel slightly less comfortable when I cannot find all of my keyboard shortcuts and find myself hitting Alt-F2 at work to bring up a CLI - which doesn't work of course. Nowadays, most of the image editing tools I use seem to have been ported to Windows by some friendly souls but I'm just not hitting it off with the Windows-style desktop environment, the mandatory layers of anti-virus/malware stuff and the lack of a proper commandline and scripting environment. I could still get used to Windows I suppose if I had to, it's not a bad distro at all.

Call me old-fashioned but I'll stick to my trusted KDE Plasma environment on Linux - I'm too old to learn new tricks.

MD Optofonik · 08-02-2015, 12:28 AM

I use Win7 as a platform for a digital audio workstation and a video editing workstation. It takes months to fine tune each instance of Win7 for either of those tasks. It takes one bad update to render those months pointless. I don't know of a single person who uses Windows on such a workstation that will go for this.

MS seems hell bent on their self destruction (Vista, Win8, Windows Phone, and now WinX). I can't imagine them pushing forced updates for ten years because I can't imagine anymore that MS will still be around in 10 years. I guess I'll have to use Win7 till it's unusable then switch to Mac.

Idiots.

---------- Post added 08-02-15 at 00:32 ----------

Originally posted by Auzzie-Phoenix

Better yet... just create the OS itself, but then make GUI packs that overlay on top that can be swapped out at the drop of a hat. And of course... no mandatory updates. If someone is too stupid/lazy to run updates, let them get weeded out. I kinda miss the days when everybody and their brother weren't using the net for things like stupid cat photos. /rant

You and me, both.

**boriscleto** · 08-02-2015, 05:43 PM

You know how the FBI is always whining about how Apple is keeping it's customers data private? Maybe this is why...

Windows 10 comes with built-in spyware. If your work requires confidentiality, DO NOT INSTALL.

kadajawi · 08-02-2015, 06:18 PM

Yikes. Linux. Used that way back in my rebellious phase, and I learned to loathe it. Constant updates that would break the system. At least once every 2 months. And by break I mean completely wreck it, taking days of intense research, plenty of hanging around in the console, trying to somehow patch things up. Life has gotten so much easier since I'm back on Windows. I also used Mac OS X for a while... switched from XP to 10.4? 10.5? It was a revelation. But to be honest, Vista was such a jump up from XP... OS X and Vista were on equal terms. 7 was a big jump forward again, and when I went back to OS X I found the system to be outdated, cumbersome, archaic, and a time waster. It may work, but certain tasks were made so much harder, and, well, none were made easier.

I can't imagine getting any work done on Linux. Having to use OpenOffice? I only have terrible experiences with that. The Gimp is, or at least was designed to compete with AutoDesk software in terms of usability... i.e. be completely and utterly horrible. Office 2013 is such a revelation in contrast... and so is Photoshop, Lightroom, and all the other software that runs on Windows.

I'm on 10 now, and it's fine. Plenty of improvements, a couple of things that could be better (mostly related to speed... having to wait for something to load before I can start entering something).

Those mandatory updates... if I wasn't on a very limited connection it wouldn't be an issue at all. It's good that people install updates. I don't want some stupid unpatched computer spam me with mails, DDoS my favorite websites and services, and generally be a jerk on the internet.

Those anti-10 articles... link bait. If you send an email, the confidential note is idiotic. Emails are like post cards. Everyone along the way can read them. They are only a step or two less public than putting it on Facebook, with the setting set to public. If you send confidential stuff via email, you deserve to be sacked. Don't do it, unless you use PGP.

Oh yeah, and do you use an Android phone? It will track your location. It will track your browser history (you know who else can? Your ISP. To a much more exhaustive extent that either Microsoft and Google can). GMail reads your emails. And on and on. Google is at least as bad as MS.

I'm not saying that it's ok that Microsoft is doing it, but they are doing what everyone else does. And the real problem is the US government/spy agencies. They do massively violate everyones privacy. They do actually do industrial espionage. Microsoft? I doubt it. Anyway I'm glad that MS is getting hell over this, even if they don't deserve it. But this is an issue that needs to get addressed.

One problem with these legalese documents that spread panic is that they sometimes are just written to cover their asses. Like, when a company reserves the right to modify, use and distribute your photos, that may be just so they can keep different size versions of your photo on their servers. It would be great if these were much more specific, i.e. list why exactly something needs the permissions, etc.

Oh and the recommendation to switch to Apple? Kidding, right? Apple has stopped caring about professional users a long time ago.

MD Optofonik · 08-02-2015, 07:29 PM

The "Consent to Use of Data" has been a part of the licensing agreement since XP, at least.

bossa · 08-02-2015, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by MD Optofonik

I use Win7 as a platform for a digital audio workstation and a video editing workstation. It takes months to fine tune each instance of Win7 for either of those tasks. It takes one bad update to render those months pointless. I don't know of a single person who uses Windows on such a workstation that will go for this.

MS seems hell bent on their self destruction (Vista, Win8, Windows Phone, and now WinX). I can't imagine them pushing forced updates for ten years because I can't imagine anymore that MS will still be around in 10 years. I guess I'll have to use Win7 till it's unusable then switch to Mac.

Idiots.

---------- Post added 08-02-15 at 00:32 ----------

You and me, both.

I run Windows 7 Pro with Cubase 8.5, a UAD2 quad card, a Powercore 6000, Liqiud Mix and a pile of native plug-ins, many of which run on iLok2. Recently I allowed Windows Update to apply it's 'magic' and after hours of downloading and updating it said the update failed and reversed the whole thing. Most of the day went out the window (oops) and I've had a few crashes since.

I'll be hanging on to my current OS for awhile even though I really need to update my computer. It's getting harder to be an individual with all this corporate control via clouds and such. I don't like it at all.

PDL · 08-02-2015, 11:13 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by boriscleto

You know how the FBI is always whining about how Apple is keeping it's customers data private? Maybe this is why...

Windows 10 comes with built-in spyware. If your work requires confidentiality, DO NOT INSTALL.

So you quote a site that is run by the Kremlin and the authors name is OllieGarkey? Really? I mean REALLY? - just what other FUD sites do you follow? Any black helicopters flying around your "perimeter"?

Most of the Microsoft "spying" that you allude to was during the Windows 10 beta process. The more intrusive stuff is easily turned off and by the way, you don't suspect Apple, Google, Twitter, Facebook, Flicker etc. are not doing the same thing? You should read their EUA's a bit more closely.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

**boriscleto** · 08-03-2015, 02:31 PM

Another nice one.

Windows 10 Can Share Your Wi-Fi Password With Facebook |

Nice of M$ to make this sort of thing opt-out instead of opt-in.

And for those who might object to the politics of my last post, here it is from Reuters.

?Incredibly intrusive?: Windows 10 spies on you by default ? RT USA

PDL · 08-03-2015, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Another nice one.

Windows 10 Can Share Your Wi-Fi Password With Facebook |

Nice of M$ to make this sort of thing opt-out instead of opt-in.

And for those who might object to the politics of my last post, here it is from Reuters.

?Incredibly intrusive?: Windows 10 spies on you by default ? RT USA

Your URL points to rt.com/usa yet another Russian Television conspiracy site. Really again REALLY?

Oh, and even you admit you can opt-out, so either do it (opt-out) or use something else. If the software you use does not run on Linux or Android then get an Apple - just hope you don't "hold it wrong"

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

**csa** · 08-03-2015, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by MD Optofonik

MS seems hell bent on their self destruction (Vista, Win8, Windows Phone, and now WinX). I can't imagine them pushing forced updates for ten years because I can't imagine anymore that MS will still be around in 10 years.

Curious about your mention of self destruction & Vista. I'm still using Vista on my desktop, and no major problems at all, except my computer is getting old. I have a feeling MS will not only still be around in 10 years, but way beyond that.

kadajawi · 08-03-2015, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by csa

Curious about your mention of self destruction & Vista. I'm still using Vista on my desktop, and no major problems at all, except my computer is getting old. I have a feeling MS will not only still be around in 10 years, but way beyond that.

The Windows hardware requirements have gone down ever since Vista... 7 was more "frugal", then 8 even more so and finally 10. So it's quite possible that with 7 or 10 your computer will actually run better than with Vista

The WiFi password sharing is only to let you onto the net so you can use the internet, and it is a useful function. It's better than manually sharing the password which gives you full access to the internet AND the computers on the network. It's better than having the WiFi passport written on a note on the fridge. etc.

And of course you can opt out.

It would be better if you can pick who you want to share it with, but this is a start.

PDL · 08-03-2015, 04:31 PM

I have a P4 machine that has been running Vista since 2007 (it was running XP, but the HD crashed an hour before having to go to sleep in order to get up at the butt crack of dawn for a month long vacation in New Zealand). It is still running and I use it as the primary device to burn DVD's of my RAW images for archival purposes. It is also running as the print server for my 2003 vintage HP deskjet. Vista has been as solid as a rock with four (4) blue screens over the years. The bluescreens were due to video/hard drive driver issues, not OS issues.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

MD Optofonik · 08-03-2015, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by bossa

I run Windows 7 Pro with Cubase 8.5, a UAD2 quad card, a Powercore 6000, Liqiud Mix and a pile of native plug-ins, many of which run on iLok2. Recently I allowed Windows Update to apply it's 'magic' and after hours of downloading and updating it said the update failed and reversed the whole thing. Most of the day went out the window (oops) and I've had a few crashes since.

I don't think most casual computer users understand this. I imagine the few MS users in the entertainment industry will finally switch to MAC instead of upgrading to Windows 10.

I can't imagine enterprise users that deal with sensitive information are going to blindly allow MS to tamper with their installs either and if MS loses enterprise to Apple, it's done. It's the one market that Apple hasn't been able to supplant MS in. In addition, if software developers find that their products are constantly being made to appear unreliable due to MS updates they will stop developing for Windows in order to preserve their own reputations. Many developers already refuse to subject their products to the myriad hardware configurations inherent in the Windows ecosystem on order to insure their software works reliably across a large user base.

08-01-2015, 06:38 PM - 1 Like	#32
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Well, if you believe in the power of ratmagic... I bailed for Linux already. Totemically-speaking: To everything, turn turn turn, And a time to get out from under that heavy thing and be in the next county saying, Seeyalater, and forget about it. Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 08-01-2015 at 06:43 PM.

08-03-2015, 03:50 PM	#41
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	Originally posted by boriscleto Another nice one. Windows 10 Can Share Your Wi-Fi Password With Facebook \| Nice of M$ to make this sort of thing opt-out instead of opt-in. And for those who might object to the politics of my last post, here it is from Reuters. ?Incredibly intrusive?: Windows 10 spies on you by default ? RT USA Your URL points to rt.com/usa yet another Russian Television conspiracy site. Really again REALLY? Oh, and even you admit you can opt-out, so either do it (opt-out) or use something else. If the software you use does not run on Linux or Android then get an Apple - just hope you don't "hold it wrong" The Elitist - formerly known as PDL Last edited by PDL; 08-03-2015 at 04:33 PM.

08-03-2015, 04:19 PM	#43
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by csa Curious about your mention of self destruction & Vista. I'm still using Vista on my desktop, and no major problems at all, except my computer is getting old. I have a feeling MS will not only still be around in 10 years, but way beyond that. The Windows hardware requirements have gone down ever since Vista... 7 was more "frugal", then 8 even more so and finally 10. So it's quite possible that with 7 or 10 your computer will actually run better than with Vista The WiFi password sharing is only to let you onto the net so you can use the internet, and it is a useful function. It's better than manually sharing the password which gives you full access to the internet AND the computers on the network. It's better than having the WiFi passport written on a note on the fridge. etc. And of course you can opt out. It would be better if you can pick who you want to share it with, but this is a start. Last edited by kadajawi; 08-03-2015 at 06:50 PM.

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08-01-2015, 01:35 PM	#31
gaweidert Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,327	Originally posted by paulh It seems there are a couple workarounds for this, involving MS Excel and/or installing Streets & Trips in Win 7 compatibility mode. I don't run Windows or own this software, so I can't help other than to provide a link: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-winapps/is-stre...827e974?page=1 This is not the issue. It worked fine on my computer for two years. On July 15 2015, Microsoft announced that they were stopping all support for Streets and Trips and supporting Bing Maps only. After that date I can no longer start it. I get and error concerning licensing. I cannot even reinstall it without getting the same message and install shuts down. As stated earlier, I do have a legal copy and license. I have not been able to find a way to get it running again.

08-01-2015, 11:52 PM	#33
newmikey Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,289	Although I use (am forced to) Windows7 at work, where all maintenance is done by the Facilities dept. and a whole bunch of nice people somewhere in Bangalore (I think), I moved to Linux at home some 10+ years back for all 3 PC's, 2 laptops as well as the media server so I certainly cannot complain about Windows today. It seems to work reasonably well and I quite like Outlook as a mail client to be honest. I do feel slightly less comfortable when I cannot find all of my keyboard shortcuts and find myself hitting Alt-F2 at work to bring up a CLI - which doesn't work of course. Nowadays, most of the image editing tools I use seem to have been ported to Windows by some friendly souls but I'm just not hitting it off with the Windows-style desktop environment, the mandatory layers of anti-virus/malware stuff and the lack of a proper commandline and scripting environment. I could still get used to Windows I suppose if I had to, it's not a bad distro at all. Call me old-fashioned but I'll stick to my trusted KDE Plasma environment on Linux - I'm too old to learn new tricks.

08-02-2015, 12:28 AM	#34
MD Optofonik Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	I use Win7 as a platform for a digital audio workstation and a video editing workstation. It takes months to fine tune each instance of Win7 for either of those tasks. It takes one bad update to render those months pointless. I don't know of a single person who uses Windows on such a workstation that will go for this. MS seems hell bent on their self destruction (Vista, Win8, Windows Phone, and now WinX). I can't imagine them pushing forced updates for ten years because I can't imagine anymore that MS will still be around in 10 years. I guess I'll have to use Win7 till it's unusable then switch to Mac. Idiots. ---------- Post added 08-02-15 at 00:32 ---------- Originally posted by Auzzie-Phoenix Better yet... just create the OS itself, but then make GUI packs that overlay on top that can be swapped out at the drop of a hat. And of course... no mandatory updates. If someone is too stupid/lazy to run updates, let them get weeded out. I kinda miss the days when everybody and their brother weren't using the net for things like stupid cat photos. /rant You and me, both.

08-02-2015, 05:43 PM	#35
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,477	You know how the FBI is always whining about how Apple is keeping it's customers data private? Maybe this is why... Windows 10 comes with built-in spyware. If your work requires confidentiality, DO NOT INSTALL.

08-02-2015, 06:18 PM	#36
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Yikes. Linux. Used that way back in my rebellious phase, and I learned to loathe it. Constant updates that would break the system. At least once every 2 months. And by break I mean completely wreck it, taking days of intense research, plenty of hanging around in the console, trying to somehow patch things up. Life has gotten so much easier since I'm back on Windows. I also used Mac OS X for a while... switched from XP to 10.4? 10.5? It was a revelation. But to be honest, Vista was such a jump up from XP... OS X and Vista were on equal terms. 7 was a big jump forward again, and when I went back to OS X I found the system to be outdated, cumbersome, archaic, and a time waster. It may work, but certain tasks were made so much harder, and, well, none were made easier. I can't imagine getting any work done on Linux. Having to use OpenOffice? I only have terrible experiences with that. The Gimp is, or at least was designed to compete with AutoDesk software in terms of usability... i.e. be completely and utterly horrible. Office 2013 is such a revelation in contrast... and so is Photoshop, Lightroom, and all the other software that runs on Windows. I'm on 10 now, and it's fine. Plenty of improvements, a couple of things that could be better (mostly related to speed... having to wait for something to load before I can start entering something). Those mandatory updates... if I wasn't on a very limited connection it wouldn't be an issue at all. It's good that people install updates. I don't want some stupid unpatched computer spam me with mails, DDoS my favorite websites and services, and generally be a jerk on the internet. Those anti-10 articles... link bait. If you send an email, the confidential note is idiotic. Emails are like post cards. Everyone along the way can read them. They are only a step or two less public than putting it on Facebook, with the setting set to public. If you send confidential stuff via email, you deserve to be sacked. Don't do it, unless you use PGP. Oh yeah, and do you use an Android phone? It will track your location. It will track your browser history (you know who else can? Your ISP. To a much more exhaustive extent that either Microsoft and Google can). GMail reads your emails. And on and on. Google is at least as bad as MS. I'm not saying that it's ok that Microsoft is doing it, but they are doing what everyone else does. And the real problem is the US government/spy agencies. They do massively violate everyones privacy. They do actually do industrial espionage. Microsoft? I doubt it. Anyway I'm glad that MS is getting hell over this, even if they don't deserve it. But this is an issue that needs to get addressed. One problem with these legalese documents that spread panic is that they sometimes are just written to cover their asses. Like, when a company reserves the right to modify, use and distribute your photos, that may be just so they can keep different size versions of your photo on their servers. It would be great if these were much more specific, i.e. list why exactly something needs the permissions, etc. Oh and the recommendation to switch to Apple? Kidding, right? Apple has stopped caring about professional users a long time ago.

08-02-2015, 07:29 PM	#37
MD Optofonik Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	The "Consent to Use of Data" has been a part of the licensing agreement since XP, at least.

08-02-2015, 07:52 PM	#38
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Originally posted by MD Optofonik I use Win7 as a platform for a digital audio workstation and a video editing workstation. It takes months to fine tune each instance of Win7 for either of those tasks. It takes one bad update to render those months pointless. I don't know of a single person who uses Windows on such a workstation that will go for this. MS seems hell bent on their self destruction (Vista, Win8, Windows Phone, and now WinX). I can't imagine them pushing forced updates for ten years because I can't imagine anymore that MS will still be around in 10 years. I guess I'll have to use Win7 till it's unusable then switch to Mac. Idiots. ---------- Post added 08-02-15 at 00:32 ---------- You and me, both. I run Windows 7 Pro with Cubase 8.5, a UAD2 quad card, a Powercore 6000, Liqiud Mix and a pile of native plug-ins, many of which run on iLok2. Recently I allowed Windows Update to apply it's 'magic' and after hours of downloading and updating it said the update failed and reversed the whole thing. Most of the day went out the window (oops) and I've had a few crashes since. I'll be hanging on to my current OS for awhile even though I really need to update my computer. It's getting harder to be an individual with all this corporate control via clouds and such. I don't like it at all.

08-02-2015, 11:13 PM - 1 Like	#39
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	Originally posted by boriscleto You know how the FBI is always whining about how Apple is keeping it's customers data private? Maybe this is why... Windows 10 comes with built-in spyware. If your work requires confidentiality, DO NOT INSTALL. So you quote a site that is run by the Kremlin and the authors name is OllieGarkey? Really? I mean REALLY? - just what other FUD sites do you follow? Any black helicopters flying around your "perimeter"? Most of the Microsoft "spying" that you allude to was during the Windows 10 beta process. The more intrusive stuff is easily turned off and by the way, you don't suspect Apple, Google, Twitter, Facebook, Flicker etc. are not doing the same thing? You should read their EUA's a bit more closely. The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

08-03-2015, 02:31 PM	#40
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,477	Another nice one. Windows 10 Can Share Your Wi-Fi Password With Facebook \| Nice of M$ to make this sort of thing opt-out instead of opt-in. And for those who might object to the politics of my last post, here it is from Reuters. ?Incredibly intrusive?: Windows 10 spies on you by default ? RT USA

08-03-2015, 03:57 PM	#42
csa Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Montana mountains Posts: 10,133	Originally posted by MD Optofonik MS seems hell bent on their self destruction (Vista, Win8, Windows Phone, and now WinX). I can't imagine them pushing forced updates for ten years because I can't imagine anymore that MS will still be around in 10 years. Curious about your mention of self destruction & Vista. I'm still using Vista on my desktop, and no major problems at all, except my computer is getting old. I have a feeling MS will not only still be around in 10 years, but way beyond that.

08-03-2015, 04:31 PM	#44
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	I have a P4 machine that has been running Vista since 2007 (it was running XP, but the HD crashed an hour before having to go to sleep in order to get up at the butt crack of dawn for a month long vacation in New Zealand). It is still running and I use it as the primary device to burn DVD's of my RAW images for archival purposes. It is also running as the print server for my 2003 vintage HP deskjet. Vista has been as solid as a rock with four (4) blue screens over the years. The bluescreens were due to video/hard drive driver issues, not OS issues. The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

08-03-2015, 10:27 PM	#45
MD Optofonik Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	Originally posted by bossa I run Windows 7 Pro with Cubase 8.5, a UAD2 quad card, a Powercore 6000, Liqiud Mix and a pile of native plug-ins, many of which run on iLok2. Recently I allowed Windows Update to apply it's 'magic' and after hours of downloading and updating it said the update failed and reversed the whole thing. Most of the day went out the window (oops) and I've had a few crashes since. I don't think most casual computer users understand this. I imagine the few MS users in the entertainment industry will finally switch to MAC instead of upgrading to Windows 10. I can't imagine enterprise users that deal with sensitive information are going to blindly allow MS to tamper with their installs either and if MS loses enterprise to Apple, it's done. It's the one market that Apple hasn't been able to supplant MS in. In addition, if software developers find that their products are constantly being made to appear unreliable due to MS updates they will stop developing for Windows in order to preserve their own reputations. Many developers already refuse to subject their products to the myriad hardware configurations inherent in the Windows ecosystem on order to insure their software works reliably across a large user base.