Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-06-2016, 07:59 AM   #31
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Kentucky
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,415
If they aren't happy and can get a better job they should.

02-06-2016, 08:02 AM - 1 Like   #32
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 36,249
If people think it's worth their while to unionize, it often is. That being said, having been part of a teachers union, I can tell endless stories about absolutely incompetent upper management promoted to their highest level of in competence, and making a concerted effort to using their position to ruin the lives of others instead of doing their job. Some people say "so get another job, in a conflict between management and employees, management is always right." It must help folks sleep to have such a simple view point. The people are willing to lay out their own hard cash to have a union speak for them. How is that anyone else's business? And it certainly shouldn't be the company's place to say yay or nay.

My daughter works at a steel firm that has never had a union. Because they always kept up on acceptable management practices and stayed one step ahead of the unions. Offering better than what the unions were negotiating at local steel plants. And they have a long history of positive management worker interaction that makes a union un-necessary. That is how a real company avoids unions. By having effective management practices.

I wouldn't have given 10 cents of my money to my union, if management practices hadn't made it 100% necessary. By the way, the steel firm where my daughter works, like all such firms, you can't get a job there. Workers are scrambling to get into shops that are not "my way or the highway" upper management ego extensions. If there was any kind of choice, no-one would work for these clowns. Go work some one else assumes that there is somewhere else to go. Trust me, union busting and mistreating your employees is a money making proposition. Shops that treat their employees fairly have to innovate constantly, to keep ahead of those that make their money through holding wages down , intimidation and by ignoring safety standards or legitimate grievance processes.

I am pretty much dismayed that there are still people who want to challenge the right to have unions, as opposed to having to learn effective management practices in place. Effective management takes away the need for unions. Blame the cause, not the remedy.

I also not how often, union bashing, and legislation bashing is mostly initiated, by companies with poor labour records, and ineffective oversight almost always as a way of covering their own mismanagement. The simple fact is, good people get along with their employees. Good managers will never have to deal with unions. The first sign of a union is the first sign your management style isn't working.

Some pick up their game.
Some bash the unions.

My support goes to the companies that pick up their game.

I do not ascribe to the theory of the divine right of management. It's a really bad theory.

Last edited by normhead; 02-06-2016 at 08:15 AM.
02-06-2016, 08:37 AM   #33
Veteran Member
Otis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis Fan
Rupert's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 25,123
I've had many jobs over my long life...some with great management and others a living hell. I think that has been the story since the beginning of time.

There may be exceptions, but generally when you hear disgruntled employees in numbers, it is a sign they are getting screwed by management. Happy employees tend to stick to their job and be productive to keep it. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire......it's pretty much that simple.

We all complain to some degree.....it's our nature. The last 25 years of my working life I worked for myself, and bitched daily, threatened to quit many times, and was not always fairly compensated. Since I was the boss and the employee, it was hard to blame anyone but myself.

Mrs Rupert just celebrated 15 years at her job.....and has bitched most every day...it's not abnormal. However, her working conditions have been excellent, her compensation exceptional, and her benefits unbelievable superb. You can put up with a lot if you have that combination. Unfortunately, most do not, and I suspect that the B&H employees don't have such conditions or benefits?

Management tends to belittle "menial" jobs and treat them unfairly. Is your trash collector a "menial" worker? What if no one will take that job? What if no one will pull your new FF camera from the shelves in a hot warehouse so it can be shipped to you? I don't see many jobs that are actually menial.....do you? A little more respect for workers and treatment accordingly can go a long way, as Norm pointed out in his post.

Regards!

....can't leave without pointing out that I am a fair minded supervisor of squirrels here in the Woods of Otis.. I do negotiate fairly with Otis and meet 100% of his demands...exotic nuts...cold beer in hot weather....plenty of photos posted of handsome squirrels at every opportunity. There is some cost to this...I am broke and have to eat cat food myself, spend most of my time feeding and nurturing his Giant Army...and have no life of my own. Otis says that is "Good Management"...but he still complains wildly that it is not enough. Not surprising, after all, any day now th Supreme Court will rule that just like Giant Corporations ....."squirrels are people too"!

02-06-2016, 09:37 AM   #34
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Fenwoodian's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,659
I read the original Facebook thread. All it says about the reason behind this is that "The main office B&H workers are demanding an end to dangerous and discriminatory working conditions inside the store."

In the USA, there is a governmental organization called "OSHA" (I worked for them for years). They are the safety police. Workers can report safety violations and unsafe practices to OSHA. OSHA will come in representing the worker, evaluate the problem, and force the employer to correct any and all legitimate safety or health hazards.

The employee who contacts OSHA and complains is protected under OSHA's "whistle blower" provisions. In effect, the employer will never be told who reported them, and the reporting employee is basically protected for life from ever being fired by that employer.

While there are many other reasons for employees to organize and unionize, safety is no longer one of them because in the USA, OSHA will force the employer to provide their employees with a workplace that is free from recognized occupational safety and health hazards.

So, I don't accept that the B&H problem is workplace safety and health! Such a problem can easily and quickly be addressed with a quick call (or letter) to the local OSHA area office. Rather, I suspect that this problem has more to do with the alleged "discriminatory working conditions inside the store." Of course none of us know for sure which of the many types of discrimination the B&H employees are alleging.

We should not speculate on the type of discrimination the protesting employees are claiming (e.g. age, race, religion, sex, etc.). Such wild and unsupported speculations will only serve to defame a fine company like B&H. I suggest that this thread be closed to prevent further harm to B&H..


Last edited by Fenwoodian; 02-06-2016 at 10:09 AM.
02-06-2016, 09:49 AM   #35
csa
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
csa's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Montana mountains
Posts: 9,749
QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
In the USA, there is a governmental organization called "OSHA" (I worked for them for years). They are the safety police. Workers can report safety violations and unsafe practices to OSHA. OSHA will come in representing the worker, evaluate the problem, and force the employer to correct any and all legitimate safety or health hazards.
Depending on the OSHA worker, they can be completely unreasonable. Years ago, OSHA came in my husband's place of business to inspect. They demanded an "Exit" sign be placed on the only doors out of very small bathrooms! Now, if there's only one door available, in about 15x15' room, isn't this rather overstepping their "power"? That was the only "violation" they documented.
02-06-2016, 10:50 AM - 1 Like   #36
Veteran Member
Otis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis Fan
Rupert's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 25,123
QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
In the USA, there is a governmental organization called "OSHA"
OSHA is overworked and understaffed...if you worked for them you already know this. Many complaints go unanswered based on manpower or priorities. I suspect that a nuclear construction site would gain priority over a camera store?

Locally, workers filed with OSHA for unsafe high rise working conditions on a new hotel. OSHA responded a year after the project was complete...and two workers had fallen to their deaths. Fines did not raise the dead.....and the company had already filed for bankruptcy and was operating under a new name and new credentials.

Sometimes the squeaking wheel needs to be heard.

QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
I suggest that this thread be closed to prevent further harm to B&H..
Are you suggesting that B&H is unable to respond, gagged and tied? ...or do you think a one sided debate represents fairness? I don't see anything or anyone here stopping B&H from stating their position? It's not like we are unable to listen to both sides and reach a conclusion, but sticking our head in the sand because we don't want to hear a negative is not conducive to a fair evaluation.

Regards!
02-06-2016, 02:15 PM   #37
Moderator
Man With A Camera
Loyal Site Supporter
Racer X 69's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: The Great Pacific Northwet
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,816
QuoteOriginally posted by Architecture Quote
I will never buy from Adorama again--their customer service is abysmal.
QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
Adorama has a representative on board here named Helen and she has been great at resolving issues. Did you try contacting her?


Helen has helped me out a time or three.
02-06-2016, 02:26 PM   #38
Veteran Member
Otis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis Fan
Rupert's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 25,123
QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
Helen has helped me out a time or three.
My personal dealings with both Adorama and B&H have been excellent. No complaints. Worker problems are a whole different ballgame.....so it is hard for us to offer any educated opinions without knowing a lot more than we know...from both sides.

Racer, you work for a huge corporation...I suspect it is not a perfect setup, but I also bet the pay compensates for some of the imperfections? That seems to be a real problem in many service industries. Better pay can make all the difference in how you view your job. If I was going to spend a day under your house with a busted main sewer line and hundreds of gallons of raw sewage, it made a difference that if it killed me with some exotic bacteria, I would die rich from the bill I was about to present you!

Regards!

02-06-2016, 02:31 PM   #39
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Fenwoodian's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,659
Rupert, there is one thing you say that I agree with. You said that OSHA is understaffed and does not have an adequate budget.

OSHA funding varies from year to year. I don't happen to be familiar with their funding levels this fiscal year.

Admittedly OSHA sometimes finds itself without the budget it would like. But even during the lean budgetary times, OSHA ALWAYS promptly investigate complaints.

OSHA inspections/visits are based upon long term and well-defined priorities. The highest priority is given fatality investigations; the second highest priority is responding to employee complaints. Regardless of what the budget is that year, OSHA ALWAYS has enough resources to promptly respond to fatalities and complaints. While the bulk of their work (programmed inspections) are the types of visits that will take the hit.

That's the big picture. Bringing up individual instances of less than perfect execution is minutia not worthy of discussion.
02-06-2016, 02:54 PM   #40
Moderator
Man With A Camera
Loyal Site Supporter
Racer X 69's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: The Great Pacific Northwet
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,816
QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Racer, you work for a huge corporation...

Gigantic.


And inside the World's Largest Building.




QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I suspect it is not a perfect setup, . .

No setup is perfect.


QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
but I also bet the pay compensates for some of the imperfections?


The monetary compensation helps.


But as has Norm mentioned, better management can eliminate the need for union representation for the workers.


I belonged to the IBEW for 30 years. The electric utility I worked at would have been miserable had there not been representation for labor. The utility did not recognize the workers as an asset, but rather a liability.


Now I am a member of the IAM. Again, if management treated the very people who make the company what it is like assets rather than liabilities there would be no need for a labor union.


I also held jobs at companies where workers were not represented by a labor union. Of those two actually managed their business well, and regarded the workforce as an asset. The three things that labor unions bargain for, wages, benefits and working conditions, were relatively good. Not quite as good as the same things in the union represented jobs I have held, but still pretty good.


Then there were the employers who failed to take care of their greatest asset, the people. High turnover and customer dissatisfaction have resulted in their demise.
02-06-2016, 06:18 PM   #41
Veteran Member
Otis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis Fan
Rupert's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 25,123
QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
That's the big picture. Bringing up individual instances of less than perfect execution is minutia not worthy of discussion.
Dead workers might not agree with you.
Response can mean a letter, a verbal reprimand, or a "we're looking into it". We do know how Govt works...and it is all too often like a snail. Look no further than Flint Michigan for proof....and there are many hundreds more examples of too little too late.
Perfection is not an option, I do realize that, but it is also not a reality. The failure rate is far above zero...far above.

QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
But as has Norm mentioned, better management can eliminate the need for union representation for the workers.
I think your reply pretty much nailed it Racer. Unfortunately, there are still many corporations that fail to recognize good labor practices. There are also cases of workers that fail to realize great working conditions and benefits......Mrs Rupert, about 5:30 every day when she walks in the door grumbling......

Regards!
02-27-2016, 01:45 AM   #42
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,427
Original Poster
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/bh-hit-with-discrimination-laws...d=fb-share-di#

From the article:

The suit accuses the company — its official name is B&H Foto & Electronics Corporation — of forcing Hispanic warehouse workers to use separate and filthy restrooms. It further charges that B&H also failed to provide designated changing rooms for women, and that employees used “racist remarks, degrading comments and harassment” against Hispanic workers at the Navy Yard warehouse. White workers, the DOL says, were routinely paid more and given more promotions at the warehouse, while black, female, and Asian applicants were not considered for entry-level positions. (B&H's owner and many of his employees are Satmar Hasidic Jews.) If B&H loses the case in administrative court, it stands to forfeit its $46 million worth of federal contracts with the FBI and General Services Administration, plus future government contracts as well.
02-28-2016, 06:28 AM   #43
Pentaxian
brewmaster15's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: CT
Posts: 1,164
I'm Lazy this morning so I used Wiki ( sorry please feel free to check sources for accuracy) I thought I had remembered reading about Discrimination at B&H in the past..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%26H_Photo_Video
QuoteQuote:
Lawsuits





In October 2007, it was announced that B&H Photo agreed to pay US$4.3 million to settle allegations that it discriminated against Hispanic workers.[6]
In November 2009, a lawsuit against B&H Photo alleged that the store refused to hire women, in violation of New York City and New York State Human Rights Laws.[7] The lawsuit, brought by four women, sought class action status on behalf of all women discriminated against by B&H over the course of many years.[8] Given B&H's prior alleged discriminatory practices,[6] the lawsuit sought US$19 million in compensatory and punitive damages in order to deter future discriminatory practices.[9]
In 2011, a lawsuit alleged discrimination against Hispanic workers.[10][11]
In February 2016 the Labor Department filed a lawsuit against B&H alleging that the company had only hired Hispanic men into entry-level jobs in a Brooklyn warehouse and then subjecting them to harassment and unsanitary conditions.[12]
Apparently this isn't a new issue for BH Photo....

al
02-29-2016, 10:55 PM   #44
Senior Member




Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 143
It's certainly disconcerting. I have a feeling Adorama's about to absorb a considerable amount of business.
03-01-2016, 07:39 AM   #45
Forum Member




Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 93
QuoteOriginally posted by Architecture Quote
It's certainly disconcerting. I have a feeling Adorama's about to absorb a considerable amount of business.

I agree. I'm glad I didn't know all this when I bought my K-S2 a few months ago. IIRC, Adorama was a lot more, maybe $50. I have found Adorama's inkjet paper prices outstanding, with many specials frequently. Their Wiki article is suspiciously glowing, sounds like it was written by them. No mention of labor issues, but I'd find it hard to believe that within that tight Hassidic community they would be very different. After all and at the least, their views about women are universal.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
apples, company, kid, rate, store, workers, workers rise
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax Lenses (including Limited series) sale at B&H up to 47% off Docrwm Pentax Price Watch 27 01-27-2015 01:43 PM
Lens Deals at B&H - Up to $300 off (exp Nov 3) Adam Pentax Price Watch 60 11-05-2014 10:03 PM
Get your lenses at B&H before prices go up! Adam Pentax Price Watch 6 05-02-2013 06:03 PM
What's up with B&H Barron General Talk 36 10-21-2011 01:56 PM
What's Up with B&H? Parallax Photographic Technique 2 03-15-2009 09:11 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:38 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top