[SpecialK]

Long story, sorry...

I was laid off at the end of September from a company I had worked at for 20+ years. I have not quite figured out what I want to be when I grow up so for the moment, I have only minimally searched for a new job. Luckily, I have a bit of an inherited slush-fund to hold me over for perhaps a year before it gets desperate.

The job search/application process has changed dramatically in the last 30 years. My first job after the Army was in response to an ad in the newspaper. I can't even locate a paper version of a newspaper, now. It's all online these days, ranging from spam-like recruiters (we've found a job for you as a "nursing assistant in Duluth - just click here...") to the more reputable (?) websites such as LinkedIn and Monster.

In my former job I occasionally hired an assistant. I put up nice color-printed signs in our retail stores, copies of handouts at the community college employment office 2 miles down the road, and on another college website. It would go on for awhile as there was apparently no-one wanting to work for minimum wage as a CS assistant. Out of desperation I would accept just about anyone who would apply if they had very minimal qualifications - legible writing and a pulse - because I could teach them the basics of their duties in a week or so.

So, back to present, I have gone to a few possible company websites and looked at their "Careers" page. Once you apply for some position, you frequently have to complete an "assessment".

One of them was for a cable company as sort of customer service for the field techs, yet part of the "assessment" included a virtual desktop/software to answer 4 "simulated" phone calls from end-user customers about payments etc. Maybe it was just to see if you follow directions and look at provided information and choose the "best" answer. There was a lot of other stuff, too. I managed to get an interview wearing my recently-purchased, required "business professional" wardrobe, but no job. (For 22 years, jeans and a T-shirt was my appropriate wardrobe).

Most of these "assessments" include a psychological examination. Some are easy, some are hard - all are out of context and mostly irrelevant - "Were you bullied in high school?" Let's see, 40 years ago...

How about "Do you like working alone or in a group?" The answers do not include "Either" or "Both" or "It doesn't matter". If you like working alone, perhaps you are antisocial or can't take orders. If you like working in a group, maybe you can't take charge or lead.

"What would co-workers say about your (some various personal trait)?" Other than a few comments from my boss (who loved me, more or less, and gave me a glowing letter of recommendation) how would I know what others in a dysfunctional work-place would say about the guy upstairs in the warehouse next door?

"If you tried your best in school (this is after asking about grade-point average in high school) would you be in the top 5%, 20%, bottom half" etc. I already told them my GPA was (truthfully) 3.5 or better. So I answered "E. None of the above - I tried my best." No "if's". Maybe it was trick question.

Another was from the Autoclub. I had taken the same one about a month ago and for some reason they emailed me to do it again yesterday - maybe a new position or they did not find someone before. So I took it today and it was a duplicate except for a new section which was a virtual desktop. There were about 8 separate tasks I had to perform - such as renaming a file without opening it, search for files named "images" on the computer, restore a file from the recycle bin. Easy stuff but I had issues and failed 2! I think 1 was on me, 1 was them (could not type into rename box).

OK, so I will end this long rant with the final question from only 1 section. Keep in mind I had worked at the company for 22 years, and in this position for 16 years ("the best we ever had" the VP once told me - oh, he quit a year or two ago). Business had been declining since Christmas 2008, and was dropping like a rock this year in particular. My assistant was moved into the warehouse (for a month or two before laying him off), and the art department guy and one of two sales guys got laid off the day before me.

However, these tidbits do not reflect in the answer...so, "Is that your final answer?"



Enough of whatever answers I gave were evidently wrong as they said "No, thank you". (Luckily I never had to try the typing test, but that is for another day...)

By the way, if the Army asks "Do you want to hunt lions in Africa?", the answer is "yes".

,

---

Last edited by SpecialK; 01-04-2017 at 07:14 AM.

[Unregistered User 8]

Sorry to hear that you were laid off SpecialK. You are 100% correct when you say finding employment has changed ( and not for the better IMO ). The current trend in Australia is for " Job Agencies " to recruit new members to a business. They require immediate start most of the time. As I am currently employed and have to give my employer 3 weeks notice, I am not considered for any position. They would prefer someone who is unemployed ( for whatever reason ) to someone currently employed. As mechanization is taking more and more jobs each year, it is only going to get tougher for us humans. Good luck to you next year in finding employment. Seasons greetings to you and yours.

[wibbly]

i figure that some enterprising jerk managed to come up with a system for pre-employment screening that he could sell to large employers. it makes the process automated and helps sift through the thousands of resumes that these places are bound to receive.


sadly, this system seems to have been adopted by everyone, so it's very difficult as someone who hasn't come through a more recent education that covers all the bullshit that you have to do to get a job, you're in trouble.



i would highly recommend that you visit an advisor. these advisors are also enterprising individuals who have found a niche market in educating people in dealing with the bullshit system that another enterprising individual created for us to suffer through.


in order to get yourself recognized, you have to use key words. you have to read the job description very carefully, and be sure to use as many words from the description in your resume and cover letter as possible. the algorithms are looking for matches here.


it won't cost you much to have someone review your resume with you and make it more attractive to a piece of software, and it will also help you with some of these bullshit pre-screenings that everyone is subjected to.

[ccc_]

these assessments are psych tests to winnow the candidate pool

they use very specific queries based on employer requirements

do I think they suck...yes
but they aren't going away

the coach idea probably is a good one

you might limit the number of assessments you try until you get it figured out
there are stories of the test results being shared at a peer level

[Skodadriver]

Long story, sorry...

I was laid off at the end of September from a company I had worked at for 20+ years. I have not quite figured out what I want to be when I grow up so for the moment, I have only minimally searched for a new job. Luckily, I have a bit of an inherited slush-fund to hold me over for perhaps a year before it gets desperate.

The job search/application process has changed dramatically in the last 30 years. My first job after the Army was in response to an ad in the newspaper. I can't even locate a paper version of a newspaper, now. It's all online these days, ranging from spam-like recruiters (we've found a job for you as a "nursing assistant in Duluth - just click here...") to the more reputable (?) websites such as LinkedIn and Monster.

In my former job I occasionally hired an assistant. I put up nice color-printed signs in our retail stores, copies of handouts at the community college employment office 2 miles down the road, and on another college website. It would go on for awhile as there was apparently no-one wanting to work for minimum wage as a CS assistant. Out of desperation I would accept just about anyone who would apply if they had very minimal qualifications - legible writing and a pulse - because I could teach them the basics of their duties in a week or so.

So, back to present, I have gone to a few possible company websites and looked at their "Careers" page. Once you apply for some position, you frequently have to complete an "assessment".

One of them was for a cable company as sort of customer service for the field techs, yet part of the "assessment" included a virtual desktop/software to answer 4 "simulated" phone calls from end-user customers about payments etc. Maybe it was just to see if you follow directions and look at provided information and choose the "best" answer. There was a lot of other stuff, too. I managed to get an interview wearing my recently-purchased, required "business professional" wardrobe, but no job. (For 22 years, jeans and a T-shirt was my appropriate wardrobe).

Most of these "assessments" include a psychological examination. Some are easy, some are hard - all are out of context and mostly irrelevant - "Were you bullied in high school?" Let's see, 40 years ago...

How about "Do you like working alone or in a group?" The answers do not include "Either" or "Both" or "It doesn't matter". If you like working alone, perhaps you are antisocial or can't take orders. If you like working in a group, maybe you can't take charge or lead.

"What would co-workers say about your (some various personal trait)? Other than a few comments from my boss (who loved me, more or less, and gave me a glowing letter of recommendation) how would I know what others in a dysfunctional work-place would say about the guy upstairs in the warehouse next door?

"If you tried your best in school (this is after asking about grade-point average in high school) would you be in the top 5%, 20%, bottom half" etc. I already told them my GPA was (truthfully) 3.5 or better. So I answered "E. None of the above - I tried my best." No "if's". Maybe it was trick question.

Another was from the Autoclub. I had taken the same one about a month ago and for some reason they emailed me to do it again yesterday - maybe a new position or they did not find someone before. So I took it today and it was a duplicate except for a new section which was a virtual desktop. There were about 8 separate tasks I had to perform - such as renaming a file without opening it, search for files named "images" on the computer, restore a file from the recycle bin. Easy stuff but I had issues and failed 2! I think 1 was on me, 1 was them (could not type into rename box).

OK, so I will end this long rant with the final question from only 1 section. Keep in mind I had worked at the company for 22 years, and in this position for 16 years ("the best we ever had" the VP once told me - oh, he quit a year or two ago). Business had been declining since Christmas 2008, and was dropping like a rock this year in particular. My assistant was moved into the warehouse (for a month or two before laying him off), and the art department guy and one of two sales guys got laid off the day before me.

However, these tidbits do not reflect in the answer...so, "Is that your final answer?"

Attachment 336648

Enough of whatever answers I gave were evidently wrong as they said "No, thank you". (Luckily I never had to try the typing test, but that is for another day...)

By the way, if the Army asks "Do you want to hunt lions in Africa?", the answer is "yes".

,

I was made "redundant" after working for the same company for 36 years (which changed ownership a few times". The company management had followed the trends in employment, "Personnel Dept" became "Human Resources" and made access to employees by face or phone "by appointment". Employees were profiled in their positions. New employees were given ridiculous requirements for their CV. Annual reports were required to be submitted by employees with their own recommendations for their futures......


I was out of work for 9 months, volunteering to drive senior citizens in minibuses led to a part time job as a driver for Senior citizens at a Day Centre. This I did till I retired. I had given up hope of ever getting a "proper" job. I was glad to be made redundant in some ways but the process did knock my self confidence and current employment practices made me brutally honest about my opinions when applying for positions. The employment world has new ethics......or lack of. You need to play their game.


Today one of my younger relatives wrote.......skilled people are desperately need...which is why so many Managers are morons!

[alamo5000]

I have noticed much of the same thing. The world is different. I personally haven't been searching for a while now, but I think the companies can get away with this crap now because employees have become a commodity and are treated as such. Truth be told the economy has been bad for a very long time (since Y2K) and ever since there has been a glut of employees and potential employees. As a result people are treated very poorly. So called economic numbers will say that 'the unemployment rate is X' but those numbers don't tell the whole story. You have situations like 'Joe' who was earning $100K a year with his shiny MBA degree but then when things went bad he was unemployed for a year, he sent out 100 applications a month and got not response so after a year or two (much less 15 years) he says screw it and is now the GM of a Dollar General for half of his previous pay. On paper he's employed and when it comes to economic statistics he's 'employed' but you see that same scenario played out millions of times.

The problem is companies and whole industries overlook people like that who quite often turn out to be excellent employees and have more talent than 75% of the people that actually get hired. A lot of it is a result of them dehumanizing the whole HR process. They say they are looking for the best candidates but don't do the things needed to get the best candidates. What they wind up with through these automated systems are a bunch of mediocre employees who are willing to jump through unnecessary hoops (as part of their process).

I worked in HR for a very large organization for a while and (just as an example) we put up one job that had great benefits and about a $3000 a month paycheck. We got over 1,200 applicants with college degrees and about 1/3 or so had advanced degrees, Masters etc. That's been pretty much the norm for quite a while now (more than 15 years).

Those companies (in general) then complain about 'not being able to find good employees' and also need a way to sort through all those applications. So they come up with a formula for you to jump through 900 hoops thinking 'if they value us then they will do it'. It's pretty self centered and goes far away from what companies actually need in order to find, keep, and retain good employees. The dynamic is pretty much that people are treated like cattle from day one and when you get on the job (in general) there is a 'you can be replaced' mentality (which is true) and then once you start and the new wears off you find yourself often in a very political job working 12-14 hours a day (or more). Don't like it? Hit the bricks.

What these companies don't know is no matter what kind of business they are in (generally speaking) they are in a people business when it comes to employees. They can write down on paper that they have X number of days of vacation and this kind of health insurance and on paper it looks like they are some great place to work. But in reality, they aren't. People aren't satisfied with how they are treated, the companies definitely are not loyal to their employees and everyone knows it so a vicious circle ensues where nothing changes and employees know they are like cattle. The ultimate end result is mediocrity at best.

The end result for them in the decision making process is to try and use a computer program to figure out who is qualified and who has their version of the right personality and other things. I say it's there and it's extremely prevalent in the workforce, but it's not very effective at all in the big picture.

I can tell you though, for those that say 'this will never go away'... all it will take is an economic recovery and this kind of thing will be toast or at least heavily pressured. Many companies will continue to try and outsource to get around actually being a good employer so there are a lot of 'ifs' out there.

At the end of the day the most effective way to get a job is through networking on a personal level. There are numerous universities that have an alumni association that works like the mafia. They don't care who applies... a graduate from X will get the position. They have people in positions of power that get 50 yard line tickets to football games and are touted to come speak and in the end it's a game of favors. It's extremely prevalent here in Texas. It also doesn't hurt at all to have wealthy socialite parents. In some cases they will make new positions just for those people. It all depends on who can do favors for who. That's why the Senator's C+ student son has a $200,000 a year job waiting for him. As long as he/she isn't a total idiot they can get away with it. This is why Chelsea Clinton made $15 million bucks 'on her own' within two years of graduating college.

For the average person though social networking from people you know and who know you is by far the best way to go about things. Some employers will still insist that you jump through their hoops though. It all depends on the nature of the work, the field, etc. Others will walk you right in for an interview. What would you rather trust? Person A who has proven work habits recommending person B or some fancy convoluted computer program designed to make educated guesses about who's going to be 'best'?

[Kerrowdown]

job "assessments"

I was applying for a staffer job many years ago, where they needed a psychometric profiling test to be completed.

At the end of the test, I said jokingly "if it transpires that I turn out to be a mad axeman, you will let me know".

Subsequently, I didn't get the job, nor did they share with me any details of my test... what does that lead me to believe.

[The Squirrel Mafia]

Job hunting does suck these days. I'm in the structural engineering field & fortunately, I can almost walk to any small engineering firm & talk to the principal & see what's up. However, if I try to apply at a big company like Balfour Beatty, Turner Construction, Walt Disney Imagineering, the city of Los Angeles, or any large company or organization like that, I know it's going to be an onslaught of questions that will annoy me. I don't even want to deal with it. It would probably be easier for me to start my own engineering firm & work on my own instead. The only problem is that there are too many engineering firms to compete with already.

[altopiet]

I know it's not a joking matter, but....Ever thought of starting your own business, perhaps something like "wedding photography"...you probably already have all the tools and knowledge?

At least till something solid comes around...

[SpecialK]

I know it's not a joking matter, but....Ever thought of starting your own business, perhaps something like "wedding photography"...you probably already have all the tools and knowledge?

At least till something solid comes around...

Coincidentally, I am doing just that :-) Just got the state business permit (so they can tax me), business cards ordered, email cover letter and list of services. Not weddings though - I did a couple of them years ago. Have a nice TS lens so I am going to try to crack the real estate nut. I have a list of about 50 realtors to hit up. I wish I could get the official list of realtors, which must be in the hundreds or more...

[altopiet]

Coincidentally, I am doing just that :-) Just got the state business permit (so they can tax me), business cards ordered, email cover letter and list of services. Not weddings though - I did a couple of them years ago. Have a nice TS lens so I am going to try to crack the real estate nut. I have a list of about 50 realtors to hit up. I wish I could get the official list of realtors, which must be in the hundreds or more...

I really hope this turns out to be a success....

I always wished I could make my hobby my job, but my business is going strong, to the point that I don't have enough time for my hobby...

[reeftool]

Looking for a job today is a difficult proposition. The last time I job searched was 1977 so I'm not much help. But I have seen some of the questions HR people ask today and it's something we joke about during breaks. All kinds of BS and very little about actual qualifications. Any interviews through the years came about after buy outs or mergers but I always had one statement to give them and it worked. " I can fix your equipment and keep it running and save you a lot of money". It worked then but it's a question they rarely ask anymore until very late in the screening process.

I do think that having confidence in yourself and ability to do the job is ultimately going to to be a positive thing. Being a tradesman, I have a very specific set of job skills so I usually just emphasize that. I contemplated going out on my own but opening a truck/trailer refrigeration business requires a big investment up front and I didn't want to do emergency road service out of a truck either. I'm now semi retired so my only career goal is staying healthy enough to continue working part time.

Good luck with the photography. I make a little on the side. I don't do weddings either although I have got roped in to doing a few in the past couple of years. Sporting events keep me busy. I go to motorcycle races, get shots of all the racers and make prints available for purchase. I've also done rowing, ski races and other events too although I'll admit, it would be difficult to survive if it was my only source of income. But good luck in your endeavor with the realtors.

[Kerrowdown]

I wish I could get the official list of realtors, which must be in the hundreds or more...

I would hazard a guess that there must be some professional body, that Realtors must be a member of, perhaps they could provide a list of local ones to you.

[SpecialK]

I would hazard a guess that there must be some professional body, that Realtors must be a member of, perhaps they could provide a list of local ones to you.

There is a realtor association - entered via password. Not sure they want to provide email addresses for everyone. I may ask the realtor who helped me with my condo. Otherwise, googling is a bit tedious...

I just found out 2 minutes ago the city permit is about $206 annually, plus another one-time about $250. Bastards.

[SpecialK]

I'm still doing these stupid things. Here is one I'm in right now..

"you must complete the Voluntary..."

They also ask if I am a military "verteran". There is YES, I AM A MILITARY "VERTERAN", or NO, I AM NOT A "MILITARTY" VETERAN. If I answer yes, then none of the answers for the next question (type of "verteran") apply.

S***heads.