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04-07-2017, 06:03 PM   #16
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I just picture one of the adult chaperones on that trip carrying around dozens of credit card numbers in a binder or notebook in a bag. That doesn't seem prudent.

04-07-2017, 11:22 PM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I just picture one of the adult chaperones on that trip carrying around dozens of credit card numbers in a binder or notebook in a bag. That doesn't seem prudent.
We don't need them - but Credit Card numbers is nothing. If you want something to worry about . . . . .

Picture an adult chaperone carrying around a briefcase with 60 complete medical histories with photo ID copy and Social Security Number, pre-completed parental releases (Permission to Treat), a canvas bag full of prescription medications in the bottles (including Ritalyn and oral contraceptives) in individual, labeled clear freezer bags, and an hourly schedule of what to dispense to whom.

There are lots of rules and controls to protect people and information, but you can't avoid having the information on the trip with the students.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-07-2017 at 11:38 PM.
04-08-2017, 05:26 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
We don't need them - but Credit Card numbers is nothing. If you want something to worry about . . . . .

Picture an adult chaperone carrying around a briefcase with 60 complete medical histories with photo ID copy and Social Security Number, pre-completed parental releases (Permission to Treat), a canvas bag full of prescription medications in the bottles (including Ritalyn and oral contraceptives) in individual, labeled clear freezer bags, and an hourly schedule of what to dispense to whom.

There are lots of rules and controls to protect people and information, but you can't avoid having the information on the trip with the students.
Why not keep those documents at least on a secure, encrypted laptop instead of carrying around papers?
04-08-2017, 05:50 PM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by lightbox Quote
Why not keep those documents at least on a secure, encrypted laptop instead of carrying around papers?
  1. Paper is always available. You don't forget the charger. You don't forget the password.
  2. In the real world a secure, encrypted laptop is beyond most people's means.
  3. Hospitals want a wet signature on the Permission to Treat


04-08-2017, 06:07 PM   #20
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I would have thought sharing your credit card details with third-parties that way would violate the card issuer's terms and conditions of use.

Related to this, it could leave the primary card-holder liable for any un-authorized transactions that may happen with the card, since the card issuer will have a case to refuse liability for any fraudulent or negligent transactions that may occur when the card is used by those third parties.
04-08-2017, 06:20 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
  1. Paper is always available. You don't forget the charger. You don't forget the password.
  2. In the real world a secure, encrypted laptop is beyond most people's means.
  3. Hospitals want a wet signature on the Permission to Treat
Okay, but a baseline level of protection from theft and prying eyes is readily available to everyone with a modern smartphone or laptop, however basic. You just need to turn on the cryptographic features in the OS. Or, you can download a free software which keeps data in encrypted form in a database.
04-08-2017, 06:55 PM - 3 Likes   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by lightbox Quote
Okay, but a baseline level of protection from theft and prying eyes is readily available to everyone with a modern smartphone or laptop, however basic. You just need to turn on the cryptographic features in the OS. Or, you can download a free software which keeps data in encrypted form in a database.
Smartphone gets lost or stolen - then what? Van gets broken into - they take a laptop and leave a briefcase. There's an accident - who has the password? Was he disabled?

The leader just carries the briefcase everywhere (mine is a large Messenger Bag) - don't put it down. There's always risk, but the protocol says paper is actually the preferred form of risk. All of the chaperones know about the go bag. Any EMT can immediately read the paper, look at the photos, identify each victim and triage appropriately. Paper is actually safer for it's intended use - you just have to protect it. You can bet no curious parent will be rifling through my folders. You manage the risks, and take the risks that reduce the more critical risks. Your worry is about the trustworthiness of the Leader.

I don't disagree with you in principle - electronic records seem safer, but the approved forms (say for Boy Scouts or a School District) are vetted by attorneys and insurance liability carriers. Every word and blank is parsed. Use of the approved data-gathering document is required or the Chaperones aren't covered by the Blanket Liability Policy, and the minors are also at risk if an error or omission is made.

I've been doing this for over thirty years. I have taken a person and the forms to the hospital twice (both times an adult), for a 3rd degree burn and sudden blindness. I'm trained and certified, and I take Re-Certification Training periodically from three non-profit entities (Red Cross, BSA and my religious national office) just to be permitted to lead / chaperone these trips. It's a lot more complex than it appears from the outside.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-08-2017 at 07:27 PM.
04-09-2017, 09:25 AM   #23
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+100 to Monochrome on the complications behind the scenes...

04-09-2017, 10:04 PM - 4 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by yucafrita Quote
I always found this approach strange... show my your credit card or go away dying somewhere else.
But that's only because you live in a rational humane society. We Yanks are "exceptional" and don't need your commie, socialist system infecting the purity of our perfect competitive "free" market system.

Last edited by wildman; 04-12-2017 at 09:35 AM.
04-10-2017, 09:50 AM - 4 Likes   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
But that's only because you live in a rational humane society. We Yanks are "exceptional" and don't need your commie, socialist system infecting the purity of our perfect competitive free market system of health care.
You're not supposed to talk politics here. We don't want some nations to feel inferior while they waste less money on medical administration and get better outcomes than us.
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