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07-23-2017, 02:09 PM - 1 Like   #31
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B and H certainly needs to treat their workers decently, but the fact remains that downtown Brooklyn, both from a logistical standpoint and from a cost of lease standpoint makes very little sense for a warehouse. Placing warehouses in lower traffic areas where leases are cheaper makes a whole lot more sense.

Amazon places their warehouses in similar locations and usually gets pretty impressive tax breaks in order to stick them where they locate them. And they are the folks (and Adorama) who B and H is trying to compete with.

07-23-2017, 03:04 PM   #32
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Brooklyn has several large warehouse centers, easily accessible to both
truck transportation for goods and public transportation for the workers.

Chris
07-23-2017, 06:46 PM   #33
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Another haphazard of Amazon ?
07-23-2017, 06:52 PM - 2 Likes   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
NYC politicians (and voters) have egregiously under-invested in transportation capacity for decades. Road congestion makes everything more expensive in NYC and makes Brooklyn noncompetitive for warehouse operations.
Road congestion sucks but building more capacity doesn't fix it. You can't pave your way out of traffic congestion. Extra traffic lanes quickly fill up as people adjust their travel habits.

QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
Brooklyn has several large warehouse centers, easily accessible to both truck transportation for goods and public transportation for the workers.
Those warehouses are bringing goods in for local distribution, and shipping other things out. It's a bad business model to bring a truck over an expensive route (high truck tolls, congestion delays) to stock the warehouse and then double your cost as you again ship the item backwards over the same route. Brooklyn warehouses are efficient for items that will sell in Brooklyn, Queens, Nassau, Suffolk counties.

07-24-2017, 06:26 AM - 1 Like   #35
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Amazon will soon open a 975,000 square foot warehouse in the New York City borough of Staten Island, right next door to Brooklyn...

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07-24-2017, 07:08 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
Amazon will soon open a 975,000 square foot warehouse in the New York City borough of Staten Island, right next door to Brooklyn...

Chris
Yes, and it's almost certainly one for serving just the NYC area and not for fulfilling any orders to the rest of the country.

The best place of B&H's warehouse would be as close to the airfreight side of Newark airport as possible so B&H can pick-pack-and-ship orders within an hour or so of the last outbound FedEx and UPS flights from Newark.

Online shops compete on both cost and time (how late can someone order and still get the order the next day). Trying to serve the US from a warehouse in Brooklyn sucks on both performance dimensions.
07-24-2017, 09:09 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
The best place of B&H's warehouse would be as close to the airfreight side of Newark airport as possible
so B&H can pick-pack-and-ship orders within an hour or so of the last outbound FedEx and UPS flights from Newark.

The new B&H warehouse is in Central New Jersey, south of Trenton.
That's more than twice as far from Newark Airport than is Staten Island.

Chris

07-24-2017, 09:33 AM - 3 Likes   #38
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In 1979 my father planned to move his ageing print shop / warehouse from St. Louis' Garment District to an efficient, ground-level building in an industrial park served by rail and three major highways. The Teamsters (representing the warehousemen) went on strike, so he was quickly forced by his bank to close the business, (they 'called' his Line of Credit). He liquidated the inventory, bulldozed the building and leased the land to a parking company, retiring on the lease income, which was substantially more money than he ever earned selling printing.

31 people unemployed because 4 of his 7 warehousemen didn't want to drive 40 minutes to work instead of 15, so his loan covenant was deemed violated.

Last edited by monochrome; 07-24-2017 at 10:45 AM.
07-24-2017, 09:35 AM - 3 Likes   #39
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While I am not surprised to see this, I remain disappointed that so many seem to accept these untrue allegations as gospel. B&H is not moving our warehouses to NJ capriciously and we are not doing so because of the union.

We CANNOT keep the Brooklyn warehouses open. As long ago as 2010 our Navy Yard landlord told us no lease renewal would be offered. Steiner Studio was (and is) scheduled to take over the space. The issue has not been whether or not we wish to stay but that we have no option and cannot stay.

Our search for new space was aided by the largest tri-state commercial real estate company and by the NY Economic Development Corp. Despite our efforts and theirs, we were obliged to expand our search from NY to include NJ.

Since the original vote on the union was Nov 2015 I think the dates speak for themselves.

The current boycott is being promoted mainly by two groups, one an independent labor-organizing group unaffiliated with the union, and the other a group which describes itself as a “socialist organization.” Most, if not all, the demonstrators outside our store have been from one or both groups, not former or current employees.

---------- Post added 07-24-17 at 12:38 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
70 miles is not a short commute, at least around here, which would be at least 2 hours each way. If it was 20 miles, I would agree.
I don't know the mileage offhand but on a typical weekday I get into my car to drive to the train station at 7:30am and arrive at my desk between 8:55 and 9:10. The average, each way, is 90 minutes.

---------- Post added 07-24-17 at 12:41 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
It will be impossible for the majority of B&H Photo's present workforce to commute or transfer. If not a calculated part of the plan it is at least an additional benefit to the owners.Chris
There is no benefit to management in the loss of qualified multi-year employees who have established their value and reliability. Every current employee in our warehouses has been offered the opportunity to continue working for us in our new facility. Some have already begun doing so. Any employee who declines will receive a severance package.

PS According to Google maps the distance from Florence NJ to Newark airport is <60 miles.

Last edited by henryp; 07-24-2017 at 10:04 AM.
07-24-2017, 09:49 AM   #40
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Not too inconvenient for you - or your driver - but I'm confident the vast majority
of workers in your Brooklyn warehouse do not own nor can they afford cars.

Chris
07-24-2017, 09:51 AM - 2 Likes   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Road congestion sucks but building more capacity doesn't fix it. You can't pave your way out of traffic congestion. Extra traffic lanes quickly fill up as people adjust their travel habits.
Couldn't agree more. This was Robert Moses's fatal flaw. We have the Throgs Neck Bridge because the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge (two miles away) was congested. Now, instead of alleviated congestion we have two, equally congested, bridges. Folly.

---------- Post added 07-24-17 at 12:54 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
Not too inconvenient for you - or your driver - but I'm confident the vast majority of workers in your Brooklyn warehouse do not own nor can they afford cars. Chris
What driver? I drive my decades old Honda Civic to the local train station where I take a Metro North commuter train to Grand Central terminal and then take two subways one stop each before walking the last 2-3 blocks. And I suspect you have no idea if any or some or all our warehouse employees own cars. You're making a lot of fact-free assumptions in one tiny thread.

Last edited by henryp; 07-24-2017 at 10:05 AM.
07-24-2017, 10:04 AM   #42
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Unless a representative of the warehouse employees posts your contentions are merely that as well.

Chris
07-24-2017, 10:07 AM - 2 Likes   #43
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This doesn't warrant conversation, nuff said
07-24-2017, 10:15 AM - 6 Likes   #44
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I really don't understand the animosity shown towards B&H! Most posting ill feelings towards them, have no actual facts on the situation from both sides! For instance, the snide remark about Henry's "driver"; what in the world is there a reason to not only "surmise", but to actually post a slam like that! If you don't like B&H, fine, don't shop with them, but get the facts before posting things like that.

Business today is very difficult to maintain; I for one am grateful we have B&H and Adorama for great products & great service.
07-24-2017, 10:28 AM   #45
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Anti New York, anti New Yorker, anti worker, anti union and anti other biases in this thread are abundantly clear to me.
IMO it's just sad that a New York business has outgrown New York, much as they seem to be outgrowing photography.

Chris
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