[Rondec]

Probably time to close the thread...

[DeadJohn]

Anti New York, anti New Yorker, anti worker, anti union and anti other biases in this thread are abundantly clear to me.
IMO it's just sad that a New York business has outgrown New York, much as they seem to be outgrowing photography.

Chris

You have said a few misinformed things in this thread. That comment above is pure ignorance. I'm a New Yorker and quite pro-union.

That doesn't change the fact that Brooklyn is a bad transportation hub for national shipping.

Can a moderator consider locking this thread? The OP has a political agenda. B&H has had a chance to reply.

[JHfwp]

You have said a few misinformed things in this thread. That comment above is pure ignorance. I'm a New Yorker and quite pro-union.

That doesn't change the fact that Brooklyn is a bad transportation hub for national shipping.

Can a moderator consider locking this thread? The OP has a political agenda. B&H has had a chance to reply.

And I suspect, strongly, that some on the other side have a political agenda as well. In fact I'm trying not to take sides here but the B&H spokesperson himself was quick to point out that one of the groups protesting was a quote “socialist organization,” as if no other explanation was necessary. The spokesperson's remark about "fact-free assumptions," like your remark about the OP's "pure ignorance," was inflammatory as well.

[Rondec]

Henry has been a representative of B and H on the forum for awhile. Certainly, he is going to give his company's line when it comes to this story. That said, if B and H's lease is up and they don't have any other affordable options, I'm not sure what the company is supposed to do.

[csa]

And I suspect, strongly, that some on the other side have a political agenda as well. In fact I'm trying not to take sides here but the B&H spokesperson himself was quick to point out that one of the groups protesting was a quote “socialist organization,” as if no other explanation was necessary. The spokesperson's remark about "fact-free assumptions," like your remark about the OP's "pure ignorance," was inflammatory as well.

His exact statement was:

"The current boycott is being promoted mainly by two groups, one an independent labor-organizing group unaffiliated with the union, and the other a group which describes itself as a “socialist organization.”

If the group describes itself as such, I don't see why you think he was "quick to point that out"; rather simply referring to what they call themselves.

[photoptimist]

New York City is OK for a city but it is undeniably expensive and congested which makes it poorly suited for a number of types of businesses.

As far as unions go, they certainly played a major beneficial role in the development of better working conditions but more recently, but in my personal experience, they seem to have become significant obstacles to progress and net destroyers of jobs and national competitiveness.

Overall, I'd say that both the workers and B&H are caught in the middle of shifting economic conditions both in real estate and retailing. Both sides must adapt or die and it seems to me that B&H is trying to do what it can.

[jeallen01]

@photoptimist
I agree with the comments in your 3rd para - that's the "real World", especially nowadays.

FWIW, we had, and still have, the same issues in the UK, and probably so have many other areas - especially in the 3rd World.

Managements have to make hard decisions, and the workforces then often have to take the pain (and that included several of which I was part - 5+ layoffs and so over 20 jobs on my resume/CV, and I was not a "low level" employee).

That said, there have to be compromises, based on the hard facts of "life" on both sides - and, probably (IMHO),I hope that B&H are doing the best that they can in the overall circumstances.

[DeadJohn]

New York City is OK for a city but it is undeniably expensive and congested which makes it poorly suited for a number of types of businesses.

All successful cities become expensive and congested because so many people want to live there. That's just the way cities work.

like your remark about the OP's "pure ignorance," was inflammatory as well

I stand by that statement. I wrote "That comment [emphasis added] above is pure ignorance." Brooklyn is a bad location for a warehouse that needs to ship products onto the island(*), then ship same products back off the island. The OP's comment then ignores that reality and attributes everything to anti-New York and anti-union sentiment. Amazon's NYC warehouses are for shipments within NYC.

(*) For those not familiar with local geography, Brooklyn and Queens (part of NYC) are on the same "Long Island" as Nassau and Suffolk counties. NYC is 5 boroughs/counties on 4 separate land masses.

[ChrisPlatt]

I wrote "That comment [emphasis added] above is pure ignorance." Brooklyn is a bad location for a warehouse that needs to ship products onto the island(*), then ship same products back off the island. The OP's comment then ignores that reality and attributes everything to anti-New York and anti-union sentiment. Amazon's NYC warehouses are for shipments within NYC.

No, that's merely your opinion, to which you are of course entitled.
Hundreds, perhaps thousands of companies - many far larger than B&H - are perfectly fine with those logistics.

Speaking of ignorance I am neither the OP nor were those comments directed at you.

I seriously doubt Amazon went from a 40,000 square foot location to one of 975,000 just to serve New York City.

Chris

[photoptimist]

All successful cities become expensive and congested because so many people want to live there. That's just the way cities work.



I stand by that statement. I wrote "That comment [emphasis added] above is pure ignorance." Brooklyn is a bad location for a warehouse that needs to ship products onto the island(*), then ship same products back off the island. The OP's comment then ignores that reality and attributes everything to anti-New York and anti-union sentiment. Amazon's NYC warehouses are for shipments within NYC.

(*) For those not familiar with local geography, Brooklyn and Queens (part of NYC) are on the same "Long Island" as Nassau and Suffolk counties. NYC is 5 boroughs/counties on 4 separate land masses.

Exactly. That's why land-intensive and transportation-intensive industries tend to leave or avoid urban locations unless they are serving just that city. Moreover, from the standpoint of wear and tear on urban infrastructure, the city (and its citizens) really don't want any trucks rumbling around either.

No B&H customer is willing to pay even a few extra pennies just to have their Japanese camera stored in Brooklyn for a few days or weeks between the time it came from Asia to the time it ships out to them. Unless a camera is going to an NYC customer there's every reason to avoid trucking that camera in and out of NYC.

---------- Post added 07-24-17 at 07:48 PM ----------

No, that's merely your opinion, to which you are of course entitled.
Hundreds, perhaps thousands of companies - many far larger than B&H - are perfectly fine with those logistics.

Speaking of ignorance I am neither the OP nor were those comments directed at you.

I seriously doubt Amazon went from a 40,000 square foot location to one of 975,000 just to serve New York City.

Chris

Amazon has 94 million sq ft of warehouses in the US alone. This NY fulfillment facility will be only 1% of their total. If anything the facility is seriously undersized for serving the NYC metro area (which has about 6% of the US population).

Amazon's current strategy is to minimize delivery times where ever possible without increasing costs. That's why it's adding lots of local fulfillment facilities to serve local demand.

[MarkJerling]

I don't think it's time to close the thread. What I do think is that some posters here have been unnecessarily negative toward B&H's representative. In my view, B&H as a commercial enterprise have every right to make decisions about the location of their shops and warehouses. As their lease expires, and they have been unable to find anything else suitable to their needs, then surely they have no choice but to look further afield.

Now, with my moderator hat on:
Anyone being disrespectful to any other poster in this thread will find themselves banned from this thread.

[MarkJerling]

This is what B&H says about the move:

"New York, NY - January 12, 2017 - B&H Photo Video today announced it will move its fulfillment center operations currently located in the Brooklyn Navy Yard to a new, larger facility in Florence Township, NJ by the end of the year. This move comes following an exhaustive, unsuccessful search to relocate to a larger facility within New York City. The Navy Yard warehouse lease expires in 2018 with no renewal agreement, necessitating the move." Read more at: New Fulfillment Center

[DeadJohn]

No, that's merely your opinion, to which you are of course entitled.
Hundreds, perhaps thousands of companies - many far larger than B&H - are perfectly fine with those logistics.

Speaking of ignorance I am neither the OP nor were those comments directed at you.

I seriously doubt Amazon went from a 40,000 square foot location to one of 975,000 just to serve New York City.

Chris

Sorry for getting you confused with another poster.

The trucking industry accepts NYC logistics because they can make profits on volume; 25 million residents in the metro area. NYC warehouses, though, are for things that start or end here; it's generally not a hub because of the costs. Warehousing isn't my specialty but I'm familiar with it because I used to write delivery routing software and now work for a government transportation agency. This is a camera forum rather than a transportation blog so I think I've said enough in this thread.

[henryp]

Henry has been a representative of B and H on the forum for awhile. Certainly, he is going to give his company's line when it comes to this story.

I joined this forum in 2007 but I've been online for B&H since at least 2000. Rather than "the company line" I try to provide factual information. From time to time that may suggest I disagree with another forum member's opinions, and in fact I may. I try to distinguish facts from opinions and when offering an opinion I try to support it with facts.

That said, if B and H's lease is up and they don't have any other affordable options, I'm not sure what the company is supposed to do.

Indeed.

[csa]

Frankly, a business can move anywhere they want to, in order to keep giving their customers top notch service! Current employees are given the choice to make the move with B&H; if they cannot, or will not, they at least were given the offer.

I still don't understand why some find this move so terrible; when they've lost their lease & had to move somewhere! Frankly, it's none of any of our business, unless we work for them, or have a person close to us working for them, that cannot make the move! Those protesting the loudest, will be the first to take advantage of the specials offered by B&H!

Again, I will say, we are so fortunate to have great businesses to buy from, such as B&H, and Adorama! We are also fortunate to have representatives from both sites, as members here to help us when a problem or question comes up.

Thanks Henry!

Thanks Helen!