[BigMackCam]

I'll start by saying this is not a whining or moaning post... and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, or intending to cause offence to members past and present

I'd like to know what you good folks think the psychology is behind the "I've had it with Pentax!" drive-by & good-bye posts we occasionally get. I'm not talking about those who've switched quietly and disappeared, nor those who switch but stay with us on the forums. I mean those who post a fire-bomb in disgust of the brand, then leave - never to return, or returning only infrequently to say how happy they are with brand "X".

The reasons for people leaving one brand for another seem to be quite varied, but often include:

- perceived poor performance of cameras or lenses in various areas (often, though not always, a limitation of the user)
- failure of camera or lens due to design flaw / age / wear & tear / unexpected fault / misuse (inc. WR-related)
- poor after-sales support from Ricoh
- poor service centre experience
- rejected warranty claims
- perceived lack of suitable in-house lenses for specific use-cases
- limited third-party lens support
- poor brand presence in photographic retailers
- etc...

I'm not questioning the validity of those reasons, though I may not personally agree with all or any of them in a given situation (I usually don't! ).

It's not the reasons for leaving that interest me, but rather why some people post vitriolic good-bye messages on the forums. What does it achieve for them?

Is it simply venting frustration to a captive audience? If so, knowing that most of us here are Pentax owners and enthusiasts, would they not expect some reaction? Or is that what they're hoping for?

Or is it, perhaps, self-confirmation and cementing of their decision to switch brands? In other words, by exclaiming their big decision, they've actually gone through with it, and no turning back.

Perhaps it's a hope (one would think a vain one?) that others here will finally break their silence in agreement, casting aside their Pentax equipment and following him or her to the supposedly greener place that is CaNiSoFuPanOly-land (once again, confirming their decision is the right one)?

Or is it something else?

We're not alone in getting these posts... I think every forum I've browsed seems to have them from time-to-time, so it's clearly not a Pentax thing

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Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-13-2018 at 07:28 AM.

[Rondec]

I think there is a perception among those who leave Pentax for other brands that Pentaxians are deluded fanboys who have no clue that there are other brands that are available and that they are clueless about the deficiencies of Pentax cameras. Pentax really does have some areas that they are weak in. They don't have top end tracking with a million auto focus points. They don't have 4K video. They don't have a camera capable of 20 fps.

What they do have is tough camera bodies with high quality sensors that they have milked for every gram of image quality possible. From a still photography standpoint, I really think the Pentax experience is still an excellent one.

Maybe its a little bit like a divorce in which a husband or wife wants to get "their story out there" on why they left. They were really committed to the brand, but it really left them by not truly meeting their needs. In the end, it's all good. If you buy a Sony or Nikon, you don't have to explain it to us here -- just enjoy your new gear and make sure you take plenty of photos.

[pepperberry farm]

I understand the poster that simply cannot get the images from their camera system (Pentax or not) that they want - be it a limitation of equipment, user, artistic bent, whatever.... I've been there and had to back-track and learn what I want to do and how to go about it...

but what I think Mike is after is the 'jumper', as I call them... the poster that, seemingly out of the blue, is selling off any and everything because of a limitation (perceived or otherwise) that they just cannot accept...

these threads are usually full of vitriol, name-calling, questioning of lineages, etc and rarely end up with any positive resolution....


it's an attention-whore thing, MIke, pure and simple... the idea that I'm going to post my 'goodbye, forever' missive and get a million consoling entreaties to stay, etc...

it's vomit-inducing for me and I tend hit 'ignore' on both the original poster and on the thread itself.... especially if it's a forum user with less than a couple of dozen posts, no examples of the problems they've been having, and their profile lists multiple other threads without any constructive outlook...



good riddance..

[monochrome]

Why do people post vitriolic restaurant reviews on Yelp! ? It’s all about exercising a tiny bit of power in the only way these people feel they can. We’re all part of the culture of victimhood now.

[Rondec]

Why do people post vitriolic restaurant reviews on Yelp! ? It’s all about exercising a tiny bit of power in the only way these people feel they can. We’re all part of the culture of victimhood now.

I do think that can be a bit different. Reviews in general are there to help possible patrons choose where to go. If there are 20 positive reviews and 1 negative, I tend to ignore the outlier.

With camera gear as good as it is these days, often the weak link is the photographer, but it is always easier to upgrade your camera gear than your skill level. As Pepperberry Farm says, I struggle the most with folks who have minimal track record here, no real photos posted who show up to say that Pentax gear sucks and their life is now fulfilled since they bought 'x' camera. The people who have a track record here also seem to be more conciliatory, explaining the specific things that they weren't able to get from the Pentax ecosystem (600 f4 lens or a tilt shift or whatever).

In the end, it is probably best not to pay attention to those threads as they do tend to bring out the worst of people on both sides.

[luftfluss]

Y'all should have seen the vitriolic farewell messages some of the Colonists left for George III. America, Land of the Culture of Victimhood since the 18th Century.

I think @Rondec is on point. I know some folks categorize cameras and lenses as "tools", but for many of us the relationship with our gear is more personal than with, say, a hammer or a stapler. So there is more of an emotional reaction when we find new gear that we feel may be "better" or "more capable" - there may be a feeling of betrayal, or wasted time, or wasted money, or an error in judgment (we goofed). And where we once ranted to a neighbor or two, we now rant to an online community.

[monochrome]

I do think that can be a bit different. Reviews in general are there to help possible patrons choose where to go. If there are 20 positive reviews and 1 negative, I tend to ignore the outlier.. <snip>

In the end, it is probably best not to pay attention to those threads as they do tend to bring out the worst of people on both sides.

You have a point, but my question was about the ‘everything is awful’ rant reviews. Nothing is that bad. Such a review isn’t any more helpful than a jumper rant, especially when posted on an open forum like DPR.

As you pointed out about cameras, (they’re all very good now and the differences are edge factors - you make that theme statement fairly often and I agree) it is unlikely a restaurant experience can be vitriol-worthy. So why do people post them?

[Rondec]

You have a point, but my question was about the ‘everything is awful’ rant reviews. Nothing is that bad. Such a review isn’t any more helpful than a jumper rant, especially when posted on an open forum like DPR.

As you pointed out about cameras, (they’re all very good now and the differences are edge factors - you make that theme statement fairly often and I agree) it is unlikely a restaurant experience can be vitriol-worthy. So why do people post them?

I suppose it is about anger. That's the reason I don't even bother to read 1 star Amazon reviews. A three star review is much more likely to give you an honest assessment of what the strengths and weaknesses of a product are than a one star review. Those reviews basically say "This product is terrible and the company didn't stand behind it." That doesn't do much for me to figure out if I can deal with deficiencies. I guess I was think of poor but not terrible restaurant reviews.

In general, it isn't ever helpful to post in anger. Less so in real life. I have never responded in anger to anyone (even when I was in the right) when I felt good about it after the fact.

[robtcorl]

I don't fully understand it either, and I don't understand why anyone responds to their outcry.

[ffking]

I too find that sort of post difficult to understand - but then we're all different, and there's a lot I don't understand about a lot of people.

One thing I would say is that anyone ranting about the inadequacies of a given brand should always look at other people's pictures taken with that brand and if they genuinely can't find any good images made by, say, Pentax cameras then they may have a point - but if others are achieving high quality results with Pentax then it's not the camera per se that's the problem. It might be your favoured shooting style or subject matter isn't a good match for Pentax cameras, in which case switching (after careful testing) is probably a good idea - or it might be that your vision or technique leave something to be desired, in which case switching is probably a waste of money. But having the humility to admit your shortcomings (something incidentally that is common to most great photographers that I've come across) is not compatible with ranting about the shortcomings of your tools anyway, so maybe the ranting thing is just something some of us have to go through and hopefully learn from.

[SSGGeezer]

You have a point, but my question was about the ‘everything is awful’ rant reviews. Nothing is that bad. Such a review isn’t any more helpful than a jumper rant, especially when posted on an open forum like DPR.

As you pointed out about cameras, (they’re all very good now and the differences are edge factors - you make that theme statement fairly often and I agree) it is unlikely a restaurant experience can be vitriol-worthy. So why do people post them?

Sorry to break it to you but there are times when an everything is awful review on Yelp is fully justified if your concerns are not dealt with.
Now when we talk about DSLRs and their users, it is a different matter altogether.
I was lucky in that I had no prior DSLR experience before buying my K-50 so as I journey through the myriad of lenses and accessories, I am like the theme song to the Lego Movie; "Everything is Wonderful!" This is Because I am always amazed at what others here have shown is possible and by how much I love some of my lenses and the images they help me create.

The folks who write their drive by goodbyes seem more like a cry for attention when putting up actual images and interacting with others on the forum would actually gain them attention and possibly validation for their whining. (Unlikely but possible.)

I just say "don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!"

[Kozlok]

People with no actual accomplishments, also being terrible at photography, want to proclaim loudly that it ISN’T THEIR FAULT!!!!!

Good photographers make great images with any equipment, great equipment makes it slightly easier, but a bad photographer is still bad, and psychologically needs it to be the gear’s fault.

A good photographer would say I’m changing brands because this one specific thing in the other brand will make my life easier. Someone who were a terrible photographer but otherwise accomplished would be able to just say, hey I’m rubbish at this photography thing, help me get better.

[twilhelm]

My belief has always been that those complaining the loudest are the ones where the error lies in the user, not the equipment.

I've been disappointed in a brand before, for instance when Canon abandoned the FD mount. I had a nice 2 camera, 5 lens set up which made me pretty good money. When things began to turn digital, my system was obsolete. But I didn't go on the forums and b*tch and moan, I studied the systems and found the one that did what I needed it to do.

I too choose to ignore those threads for the most part.

[alamo5000]

It's one thing to switch cameras for a variety of well thought out reasons. IE more lens selection, better support, I shoot with other people that use X so we can share lenses, goading from friends, a perception of shortcoming (such as "autofocus sucks" or anything like it), and any other blog induced technical thing... look the 24XDY camera from whatever can shoot 30 frames a second!

All those things are one thing but there is something else about it. If I have a reasoned approach to something and I decide to switch gear then thats totally fine.

"The Opus" is a whole different story though. I used to long ago belong to a political forum... my main reason for being there was simply because it was an absolutely excellent collection of varied sources of information in one spot... but that said that forum had nothing to do with gear or whatever and let me tell you, they had so many opus threads it wasn't even funny.

The reasons for it usually are very self centered. IE I know what the truth is and none of the rest of these idiots care to see it onto people getting called out (say by another poster) for something they don't agree with. Some people simply cannot handle dissention from their way of thinking.

I also think it has a lot to do with narcissism. The internet empowers and emboldens them. The real kung fu masters that know their stuff don't need to shout about it. The others though that believe in their own minds that they are bigger, better, smarter, and more knowledgeable than everyone else literally get angry when someone doesn't agree with them or in some cases if someone is better than they are. The problem is they don't even recognize their own bad behavior.

I had a boss like that recently (and formerly thank God). Anyone and everyone that demonstrated more understanding or knowledge on almost anything wasn't treated as a hero but rather a threat. It makes for an extremely toxic situation to say the least. That to me is the root cause of a lot of it. That and the fact that the internet connects people together in a way where people don't feel the need to try to be civil. In their minds everyone else is an idiot for not seeing the light (like they do) or they get literally threatened by various opinions that don't mirror their own.

[Just1MoreDave]

The more useful question (psychology-wise) is, why does anyone reply to those threads. Because the responses are not changing anyone's minds, and the OP leaves eventually. Just more negativity in your life.