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02-22-2018, 02:09 PM - 2 Likes   #61
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My recommendation is to make use of the "ignore user" function, that's what it's there for.

02-22-2018, 02:44 PM - 2 Likes   #62
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You can burn yourself out in these sort of forums, just as others can burn you. In that respect, it's not unlike any other form of personal interaction. Here, of course, you don't get to look the other person in the eye when you make a statement directed at them, so, as with other forms of indirect communication, it's easier to ignore the humanity of someone with a different point of view.

I used to think that my parents' generation were overly polite in their dealings with each other, but some of that culture wouldn't go astray here, from time to time. Now, politeness or consideration of others is often derided as "political correctness" and the search for a good put-down has overtaken the search for truth, as tribalism exerts itself everywhere.

We'd probably be less stressed if we used the "ignore thread" function more than the "ignore user" one.
02-22-2018, 02:48 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
We'd probably be less stressed if we used the "ignore thread" function more than the "ignore user" one.
I too have recently re-discovered the power of that feature
02-22-2018, 02:58 PM - 3 Likes   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by sibyrnes Quote
How many of us will confess that they often find the conflicts here amusing and entertaining? I know I do
They can be until they get personal or bombastic.

Some of the discussions about hot debates like equivalence, or whether to leave a filter on, or zooms v primes, or DSLR v mirrorless can be entertaining when conducted with a light touch and without arrogance or self-aggrandisement. But all too often they can slide into aggression and something like bullying.

Sounds funny saying it. I mean, seriously, staking your sense of self on something like whether a zoom is better than a prime? Seriously??

02-22-2018, 03:29 PM - 1 Like   #65
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Monochrome, as one of the users who reads a lot and posts a little, I'm sure I speak for many of us (the silent-ish users) that we'll also be sad to see you go. After a little time on the forums, even without using the ignore function, it becomes clear pretty soon which users post anything of value, and which users you might as well skip over. Your contributions were always well informed and well written.

I'll hope you'll be back in the future!
02-22-2018, 03:46 PM   #66
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I must say that I never use the ignore button as the ignore function in my brain is well developed As long as you skim read stuff to know quickly whether it's worth reading more closely and don't get involved in arguments and limit your exchanges with any one individual on any one topic as soon as it becomes evident that neither of you are going to change your point of view, you're fine most of the time - although relentless negativity does get tedious even at the skim reading level.
02-22-2018, 03:47 PM - 2 Likes   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
Some of the discussions about hot debates like equivalence, or whether to leave a filter on, or zooms v primes, or DSLR v mirrorless can be entertaining when conducted with a light touch and without arrogance or self-aggrandisement. But all too often they can slide into aggression and something like bullying.
Very nicely put, Des

And that's it in a nutshell. It takes very little effort to express opinions and put forward arguments in a way that doesn't invite or exacerbate negativity and confrontation. We should all be prepared to put in that effort to keep these forums enjoyable (to be fair, most of us already do).

02-22-2018, 03:53 PM - 2 Likes   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
No, but I think we mods are going to have to be tougher on those who perpetrate it...
Please be as tough on the baiters.
02-22-2018, 03:59 PM - 1 Like   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Please be as tough on the baiters.
We'll try, Bill... It's more difficult to distinguish bait vs reasonable opinion (even if we might not agree with it), but we'll try
02-22-2018, 04:02 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
We'd probably be less stressed if we used the "ignore thread" function more than the "ignore user" one.
This can effectively be achieved by not clicking on the thread link.
02-22-2018, 04:10 PM - 8 Likes   #71
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There seems to be a correlation between how much new stuff Pentax puts out and the general attitude of the brand's most loyal fans. The past year has been one of the quietest periods ever for Pentax, and this is causing turbulence now that the "big" announcement isn't what everyone (or anyone?) expected. I have two pieces of advice for the community in general: first, if there's a controversial issue or heated debate in a rumor thread, try not to stir the pot - at the end of the day, nobody benefits and you'll probably end up steering users away from the brand, rather than toward it, making it even harder for Pentax to release that dream camera or lens. Second, the ignore thread (or ignore forum) feature is not to be overlooked, especially in sections prone to speculative topics. Report posts that you believe to be problematic, too, but don't be shy about backing out if you sense a topic has run its beneficial course, or if you feel your participation would result in tension.

My goal is (and has always been) to maintain a polite, respectful, and helpful atmosphere on the forum. We'll do our best to fix what needs to be fixed to get you back, @monochrome !

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02-22-2018, 05:19 PM - 2 Likes   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
We'll try, Bill... It's more difficult to distinguish bait vs reasonable opinion (even if we might not agree with it), but we'll try
That is the bigger concern I have for cracking down on speech.. who is to say someone doesn't have a serious, valid, critical opinion versus being considered a troll? A troll is someone who just does it for the rise in people alone. Who can tell the difference?

The funny here is we all agree for taking care of the problems in the forum, but we are probably each that problem for one another..

So do we just ban all critical or deemed-as-negative comments as a result? I'd be more concerned with this place then becoming an everything-is-awesome borg mentality. Everything isn't always awesome and it should be OK to discuss it as long as we don't get personal.

There have been a lot of spinups and spinouts... but there have also been some interesting discussions too in the middle of them or as a result of them. That seems to be just how the internet works... this isn't a PF issue. I see the same issues on every. single. other. forum.

We have a lot of people discussing in a single (often non-native) language over dozens of countries (at least) with different understanding of that language and its regional nuances, different customs and cultures, different personalities, different age groups, different levels of emotion, etc.. all that has to be deciphered through text and smilies. It is easy to misunderstand what someone means or their attitude.


The other issue I see is we tend to share our personal likes with one another as if they should matter to one another more globally. And done so as if we must WIN the discussion. When that mentality, mixed with arguments on personal choice, only tends to fuel and fan the flames. It is one thing to discuss the specifications of a lens or body, technique, or the sort and it is another to get into the weeds of 5 fps burst or 33 AF points should be enough for you because it is enough for me and I'm going to win this battle. It is there where the heat seems to start more often than not..


So maybe we, as members of the forum, could help by knocking back on the win-the-personal-arguments thinking. And also understanding that just sometimes views get crossed, people bump heads, people get misunderstood, and it is just going to happen online in public discussions.

Last edited by mee; 02-22-2018 at 05:25 PM.
02-22-2018, 05:24 PM - 12 Likes   #73
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I appreciate the comments and suggestions from everyone, which I have seen by email. I’ve been humbled to learn I have this many friends here and grateful you would take the time to comment as you have. Carol is spot on with her suggestion that it isn’t the early days when we had, for instance, long-running threads about using the Green Button with K lenises and Taks (on a K10/K20). I deeply miss the free exchange of helpful, personal instruction. PF can be a different kind of Forum if we all respect our history and tradition.

I believe Pentax is a different kind of camera company, RIcoh knows what they’re doing with the brand and Pentax people could step back and try to be a little more patient and embrace the differences. Yes, we are Pentax people. We’re a little different, too, and we could embrace that and wear it - not ‘loud and proud’ but neither embarrassed about it.

Let’s just agree I’m stepping away for a while and in the future - whenever it happens - I’ll concentrate more on the image Forums and less on the new gear threads. I’ll be an early adopter of the K-1 Upgrade - a Guinea Pig, if you will - and write about that*

See you soon

Paul



* (immediately contradicts self )

Last edited by monochrome; 02-22-2018 at 05:39 PM.
02-22-2018, 05:28 PM - 1 Like   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
We'll try, Bill... It's more difficult to distinguish bait vs reasonable opinion (even if we might not agree with it), but we'll try
Which is why I will never be a moderator on this forum Plus I like the ignore user button a little too much
02-22-2018, 05:44 PM - 2 Likes   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
He's not a moderator, SpecialK.

He's like many of us members, sick of seeing negative posts.
QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
+1.
+1 again.

It used to be that it was enough to avoid the rumors area and threads with obvious trolls in the titles, but lately there has been a escalating trend towards off-topic hijacks, thread-poisoning, and persistent off-topic whinging... <applying voluntary muzzle...hope it holds> in the core forums.

Oh, well...perhaps the contagion will abate once we have a K-3 II successor in sight.


Steve
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