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05-06-2018, 03:29 PM   #1
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New Performance car prices !!

I was at a all Ford car show this morning. The show was at a Ford dealership.

There were vintage Fords...'60's Mustangs with 289's, one had a stroker 347 and 390's. One old Cobra Jet 429, newer Mustangs by the score. Some interesting stuff.

After I had sated my photography needs...I wandered through the new car lot. Boy did I get some sticker shock on a couple of new performance model Fords. One a Ford Focus RS, 2.3 turbo 4 cylinder, 6 speed standard, etc. There it was...asking price was $ 60,000 +.

Then a brand new Mustang..the GT 350 model...going for...$ 80,000 + !

These are Canadian dollars, not USD.

I do recall the days...back in the '60's when the 'big performance engine , 4 speed manual, limited slip, heavy duty everything went for more than the basic Mustang with a inline six, 3 on the tree...but percentage wise...not with such a significant leap in price over the basic model.

I do understand inflation, more sophisticated engineering integral to modern cars, etc...as factors. But $ 80 Grand CAD for a Mustang V8 ...and sixty grand for a Ford Focus. Fords are the people's car...the car of the average guy...even their performance cars were performance cars for the average Joe...at a price 'Joe' could handle in easy payments.

I'm sure it's that way at other dealers, peddling other performance makes.

As the Brits say...I was gobsmacked !!

05-06-2018, 05:33 PM   #2
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I have been looking at the 2018 Ford Mustang GT. Cheaper than the F150 4X4 that I really want.
It is just nuts what they want for new rides.
05-06-2018, 05:59 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ex Finn. Quote
I have been looking at the 2018 Ford Mustang GT. Cheaper than the F150 4X4 that I really want.
It is just nuts what they want for new rides.
$80,000 USD is not uncommon for a Performance (Raptor)
or luxury (King Ranch / Limited) Ford F-150 pickup truck.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-06-2018 at 06:50 PM.
05-06-2018, 06:10 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
$80,000 USD is not uncommon for a Performance (Raptor)
or luxury (King Ranch) Ford F-150 pickup truck.
One of my senior "engeneers" just bought a Raptor. A sweet truck indeed.

05-06-2018, 06:45 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ex Finn. Quote
One of my senior "engeneers" just bought a Raptor. A sweet truck indeed.
Yes they are! Very nice. My son has a 2016, realistically set up for ungraded off-road but not the Rock-Crawler packages. I swear it is the smoothest, most stable, best-riding highway vehicle I’ve ever driven / ridden in. Meanwhile he can get anywhere and do anything necessary on his land. Not that he couldn’t do the latter with a straight 4WD F-150 Crew Cab.
05-06-2018, 07:28 PM   #6
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The GT350 has 562hp which is probably a bit more than absolutely necessary. The base Mustang used to be some anemic thing but today has 300hp - possibly OK. It would be interesting to see how many vintage Mustangs would be outrun by the new base model.
05-06-2018, 07:43 PM - 3 Likes   #7
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If you look at how those old performance cars were equipped you may be in for a shock. No airbags, power windows, power locks, power mirrors, cruise control, sound system, GPS, the myriad of sensors feeding data to a computer, fuel injection, collision resistant bumpers, air conditioning, tilt steering wheel. No power brakes or steering. No catalytic converters. No collapsible steering column. No backup camera. No passenger side rear view mirror. No vanity mirrors. And the list goes on and on. Usually a manual transmission too. Usually only the driver had a seat belt.

You had to tune it up every 10,000 miles or so. Even more frequently depending upon the setup. Dodge had a 440 cubic inch engine with three two barrel carburetors. Keeping that setup in optimal operating condition was an adventure in itself. One guy was so frustrated with his that he offered to trade me a straight up trade for my 1971 Ford Maverick. And he was dead serious about it.

Back then a car with 70,000 miles on it was considered on it's last legs. A car with 100,000 miles was almost unheard of. My 1964 Chevy Biscayne had 96,000 miles on it when I scrapped it. Transmission was shot and it was rusted pretty good too.

Cars and tire today are exponentially better than they were in the "good old days". Rare was the year that you did not experience at least one flat tire. By the time a car had 50,000 miles on it you had probably done at least three tune ups and 16 oil changes if you were following recommended maintenance. Replaced the ignition wires twice. Replaced the water pump. Replaced all the belts and hoses at least once and maybe even the carburetor. Valve cover gaskets were probably changed too. Ball joints wore out. Another list that goes on and on.

Last edited by gaweidert; 05-06-2018 at 08:03 PM.
05-06-2018, 09:03 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
If you look at how those old performance cars were equipped you may be in for a shock. No airbags, power windows, power locks, power mirrors, cruise control, sound system, GPS, the myriad of sensors feeding data to a computer, fuel injection, collision resistant bumpers, air conditioning, tilt steering wheel. No power brakes or steering. No catalytic converters. No collapsible steering column. No backup camera. No passenger side rear view mirror. No vanity mirrors. And the list goes on and on. Usually a manual transmission too. Usually only the driver had a seat belt.

You had to tune it up every 10,000 miles or so. Even more frequently depending upon the setup. Dodge had a 440 cubic inch engine with three two barrel carburetors. Keeping that setup in optimal operating condition was an adventure in itself. One guy was so frustrated with his that he offered to trade me a straight up trade for my 1971 Ford Maverick. And he was dead serious about it.

Back then a car with 70,000 miles on it was considered on it's last legs. A car with 100,000 miles was almost unheard of. My 1964 Chevy Biscayne had 96,000 miles on it when I scrapped it. Transmission was shot and it was rusted pretty good too.

Cars and tire today are exponentially better than they were in the "good old days". Rare was the year that you did not experience at least one flat tire. By the time a car had 50,000 miles on it you had probably done at least three tune ups and 16 oil changes if you were following recommended maintenance. Replaced the ignition wires twice. Replaced the water pump. Replaced all the belts and hoses at least once and maybe even the carburetor. Valve cover gaskets were probably changed too. Ball joints wore out. Another list that goes on and on.
Quite right, but you get many if not all those improvements you mention on new Ford Focus...non RS models... cars that go for $ 21,175 to 27,000 CAD. I was looking at the prices of new Focus models at the local dealer.

Everyone of them has the following and I'll quote, but paraphrase you.. "safety equipment airbags, power windows, power locks, power mirrors, cruise control, sound system, GPS, the myriad of sensors feeding data to a computer, fuel injection, collision resistant bumpers, air conditioning, tilt steering wheel, power brakes / steering. Catalytic converters, collapsible steering column, backup camera. Passenger side rear view mirror, vanity mirrors. And the list goes on and on, etc

The RS model at 60 grand has added performance features in an engine, brakes, cooling, suspension, tires...but not almost 40 grand worth...is my point. Almost three times as much...not quite, but almost at $ 21, 175.

You are paying extra, extra...for the performance image and I realize the RS and GT 350 do have what some might term...extreme performance..compared to regular cars.

If only a regular citizen could get a new police package AWD, turbo 3.5 liter V6 Taurus Police Interceptor...what a fine performance car that would be. Not as quick as the extreme RS and GT 350...but a great performance car for a driver who wants sharper handling, better braking, crisper acceleration for and I think the purchase price is around the mid $ 30,000 mark.

Not an original idea by me, think that was how the late '60's Plymouth Road Runner / Dodge Super Bee came about...essentially stripper sedans with police package equipment...383 cube /335 hp V8, HD suspension, cooling, brakes, performance tires...for low prices.

---------- Post added 05-06-18 at 11:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
The GT350 has 562hp which is probably a bit more than absolutely necessary. The base Mustang used to be some anemic thing but today has 300hp - possibly OK. It would be interesting to see how many vintage Mustangs would be outrun by the new base model.
You're right the base Mustang 300 hp V6 or the base Camaro with the 335hp, 3.6 liter V6 would outhandle, out brake and in all probability out accelerate many ...stock...not breathed on...but stock....'60's performance cars.

I checked out Car and Driver magazine and the 2018 Camaro V6 is impressive... 0-60 mph is 5.2 seconds, 1/4 mile is 13.8 seconds @ 101 mph. Not too shabby and I can tell you there were not many hi po muscle cars from the '60's that can match or better those figures.

When it comes to braking and handling..the Camaro/Mustang are generally in another league. Think these cars are somewhere in the mid to high 30 grand area (after wheeling and dealing) ...new.


Last edited by lesmore49; 05-06-2018 at 09:10 PM.
05-07-2018, 04:12 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
No airbags, power windows, power locks, power mirrors, cruise control, sound system, GPS, the myriad of sensors feeding data to a computer, fuel injection, collision resistant bumpers, air conditioning, tilt steering wheel. No power brakes or steering. No catalytic converters. No collapsible steering column. No backup camera. No passenger side rear view mirror. No vanity mirrors. And the list goes on and on. Usually a manual transmission too.

You've just described my perfect car. I want one like that.
05-07-2018, 05:16 AM - 2 Likes   #10
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All that pricey racing car performance would really come in handy and impress others on my commute to work and trips to the grocery store.

Chris
05-07-2018, 05:43 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
You've just described my perfect car. I want one like that.


There are millions of them out there, many very cheap. They're called "used cars".


But just remember, because of the deletion of all the modern features the rate of deaths per mile driven in 1970 was something like three or four times higher than today. Relatively minor accidents you'd walk away from in 2018 would result in you being ejected from the car or impaled on the steering column 50 years ago.


I often think of getting an old Mini or other cool vintage car to restore for my kids when they turn 16. Then I think I'd rather that they live to see 20.

---------- Post added 05-07-18 at 08:52 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Quite right, but you get many if not all those improvements you mention on new Ford Focus...non RS models... cars that go for $ 21,175 to 27,000 CAD. I was looking at the prices of new Focus models at the local dealer.

Everyone of them has the following and I'll quote, but paraphrase you.. "safety equipment airbags, power windows, power locks, power mirrors, cruise control, sound system, GPS, the myriad of sensors feeding data to a computer, fuel injection, collision resistant bumpers, air conditioning, tilt steering wheel, power brakes / steering. Catalytic converters, collapsible steering column, backup camera. Passenger side rear view mirror, vanity mirrors. And the list goes on and on, etc

The RS model at 60 grand has added performance features in an engine, brakes, cooling, suspension, tires...but not almost 40 grand worth...is my point. Almost three times as much...not quite, but almost at $ 21, 175.

You are paying extra, extra...for the performance image and I realize the RS and GT 350 do have what some might term...extreme performance..compared to regular cars.


A Focus RS in the US stickers for $41k base, and probably mid-40s with options. I don't know the current exchange rate, but it isn't even close to getting US$45k to CAD$80k. I suppose if the dealer can get that, good for them, but that kind of markup is flatly insane. You can get a VW Golf R, which is at least as good a car, for $40k and change. You can get a John Cooper Works Mini for probably less than that. You can get an Audi RS3, which is a much better can than the Focus RS for about $50k.


Anyone who pays even US $60k for a Focus RS has more money than sense and hasn't done their homework.

---------- Post added 05-07-18 at 09:01 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
The GT350 has 562hp which is probably a bit more than absolutely necessary. The base Mustang used to be some anemic thing but today has 300hp - possibly OK. It would be interesting to see how many vintage Mustangs would be outrun by the new base model.

All of them? That's a slight exaggeration, but the performance of even basic cars today will crush the dreams of oldtimers. It's literally true that a 2018 Chrysler Pacifica minvan's 0-60 time (7.5 seconds) is as fast or faster than a 1975-82 Corvette. My 2014 Audi S4 is quicker to 60 mph than a 1980s Ferrari Testarossa that every boy had a poster of on their bedroom wall.
05-07-2018, 06:18 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
All that pricey racing car performance would really come in handy and impress others on my commute to work and trips to the grocery store.

Chris
The curse of living in "The City". No place to actually drive a vehicle.
05-07-2018, 07:55 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
The curse of living in "The City". No place to actually drive a vehicle.

There are plenty of places around here, and many more within a couple hours drive.
But who in their everyday life has much time "to actually drive a vehicle"?

Chris
05-07-2018, 08:37 AM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
There are plenty of places around here, and many more within a couple hours drive.
But who in their everyday life has much time "to actually drive a vehicle"?

Chris
It's all related. Shave minutes off each grocery store trip and it adds up!
05-07-2018, 09:12 AM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
There are plenty of places around here, and many more within a couple hours drive.
But who in their everyday life has much time "to actually drive a vehicle"?

Chris
For the last 17 years of my working career I covered most of New York state as a field service engineer. I did not have NYC in my territory. Lots of driving. about 30,000 miles a year for work. Having a tricked out Mustang would have certainly been more fun to drive than the Ford Fusions and Escapes that I had as company cars.

Sadly not all of my efforts were appreciated. My boss would not allow me to bill the company for some of the expenses I incurred while "rushing" to deliver superior customer service.
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